I know from searching this forum that this has been discussed from various angles previously but all the threads I found were pretty old and not directly related so I didn't want to re-ignite old material.

How many of you are currently in a situation where your marriage, specifically your spouse, is the only thing keeping you from pursuing transition?  I've seen it mentioned a few times that "If I wasn't married I'd transition in a heartbeat", so my question is how many of you are actually able to make it work staying in a non-transitioned life for the sake of preserving a marriage.

I'm really struggling right now with this question.  I haven't come to the conclusion that I need to transition in permanent way (HRT, surgery, etc.) at this point, but I also can't rule it out.  Quite honestly, I'm trying with the help of my therapist to separate what I feel I need for me versus what the need to preserve my marriage is telling me.  My wife has already made it clear that if I cross that line into permanent changes, she's out. As I've seen mentioned in others' posts, I've heard the "I married a man, I'm not a lesbian" feelings echoed from her many times.  I totally understand it but it is simply a matter of fact and while she's working with my trying to be accepting of who I am, I don't see her views and needs fundamentally changing anymore than mine will.

So I've been dealing with a lot of anxiety lately over what happens if I find I really do need to pursue hormones or even go through full SRS.  She's been a part of my life for 25 years and I can't imagine trying to go through the struggle of transition without her at my side.  But there's the catch 22.  If I come to the conclusion that transition is what will make me comfortable but I'm going to lose my marriage if I pursue it, can I keep a happy life without transitioning?

I'm hoping to learn a little from others experiences on this one.

If you are truly female in spirit, then your wife doesn't love the real you, only the image you perpetuated for all these decades.  So, from my perspective, there is no marriage to preserve.  It wasn't real to begin with.

Hi Lisawb

Wow tough question to kick the day off(its 6am here) I think for most of us that are married this exact thought has run through our minds.

I tried for so long not to be trans that it nearly killed me. I told my wife prior to marriage that I was a crossdresser only because I had no other words to describe it. Fell in love with her and thought I had been fixed YAHOO!!!! I tried to explore my Trans feeling about 11 years into the marriage and my wife was tolerable for me to dress when she wasn't around but that was it. I was already drinking to excess and this just made me feel worse.

I tried to supress it all by drinking and drank so much that I injured myself permanently. After sobering up I had another attempt and again met with resistance from my wife. I just spiralled into a depression that lasted for a number of years until I was stood out the back of my place a sobbing mess knowing that a decision to live or die was entirely mine and I could stop this pain right now. I was planning my own death...stupid HUH!! I decided to live and have one more go at sorting out my life.

I put it to my wife about how I was feeling and she told me she was not a lesbian to which I listened and understood. In the end it came down to the fact she loved me no matter "what flavour wrapper" I came in. She loves "me" the person and whilst this is not the ideal situation and not one she or I signed up for, it is way better than either of us expected...and so much better than doing it on her own because I did something stupid.

We have actually become closer on a whole new level...yes certain parts are different but on the whole, life is all that much sweeter when my Dysphoria is not raging which usually gets a little better each day. We have a lot of fun together and enjoy each others company simply for the sake of it.

Then there is the tough part. Can you bring yourself to face your truth. Your life will never be the same again now that you know there is a way of dealing with the Dysphoria. It is a little like Pandora's box, I was never ever able to keep a lid on things. Eventually no matter what I did the feelings of Dysphoria always came back with vengeance.

I love my life, there is a future there for me that I could never see, I am happier and  heathier than I have ever been in my life.

Seize the day!!

Hugs
Liz

I kindof mostly fit....

In many ways my wife is what is primarily me from doing a full social transition. In some ways she put off any thoughts or attempts at even a medical transition, ie: HRT.  GCS, BA, FFS et al have never been on my RADAR for the most part. HRT, specifically low dose HRT, over the decades provided the much needed Brain-Reset. A trick I learned from 2 transition "experiments" in my very early 20's. BTW - She knew of my "Gender Issues" and history very early on, almost day 1.

I avoided dealing with the Trans-Beast for decades. Mostly by employing the 3Ds; Diversions, Distractions, and some Denial. "Just a CD++" I settled on. Between my physical attributes, and a ton of baggage from shame and guilt of being TG, any transition back then was doomed to failure. I was ill prepared for it.

Eight years ago my world was destroyed. Obliterated. Just about anything and everything that I used or had that defined me as Me was taken away. I was fired at peak of my career as VP of Engineering. My wife was growing to hate me. I was hating me. I was lucky and landed a job as an engineer way out of state working in the Seventh Circle of Hell, otherwise known as a defense contractor. Not the sort of place this 'Hero' engineer is compatable with. Most days I felt like a glorified administrative assistant. I was hundreds of miles away from my wife, my home, no friends, culture shock of rural West Virginia vs NYC metro area.

To put it another way, way too much "Quality Time" alone with my thoughts. No diversions, no distractions. Even Denial I lost thanks to a lot of introspection showed pretty much every disaster in my life came along because of how I was NOT Handling being TG. I needed to take the Trans-Beast on for real. I especially needed to do it in a way that hopefully allows me to keep all the other important aspects of my life together. Primarily my wife and I, as shakey as it was and somehow get back to being the Hero engineer once again.

I started working hard to fix myself from the inside, to loose the ton of baggage I accumulated. I needed to have better tools to deal with who I am and learn healthier ways to deal with it. Being out in the middle of nowhere I tried to find some sort of support, Trans-Friendly support. About the only support I found was some 90 miles away, a TG Support Group. I pushed my envelope and contacted the group moderator. Funny how I spent pretty much all my life in the shadow of NYC and never dared to do anything close to this. I passed muster and attended my first meeting some 2 weeks later. I was absolutely floored by it. A fluke I thought. All too new. Next month, just as floored. By the end of the third meeting I knew it was almost too late to tell my wife what was up

Though she knew for some 30+ years of my gender issues, dropping the T-Bomb came as a shock to her (just as it was to me). I cannot tell you how many times I heard "I did not marry a woman", or "If I only knew you were going to..." It was a difficult time for us both. Somehow we got over that initial hurdle and her intense sense of betrayal. In time as she saw how much I was growing as a person, how hard I was working at fixing myself and not making any drastic changes her feelings slowly changed.

Transitioning was the furthest thing on my mind. Been there twice. I told the therapist I found the same thing. I needed to fix me while keeping all the other important aspects of my life in tack. Slowly I got better. Well, better also meant going from what initially was my life saving Low-Dose HRT to full. Life got even betterer. Within a couple of years I was starting to live part-time female. Transitioning was no longer totally off the RADAR.

Now some 7-8 years later, back with my wife in NJ. Back working a dream job being the hero, I do struggle at times over the "Want To" vs "Need To". As much as I may feel down over a life sort of on standby, the oft time feelings of "Hey, I finally got this beat. Time to stop all this silliness".... I sort of mostly learned a lot of the silliness I cannot stop. My wife was the first to see that many years ago when I sometimes offer to stop all this if she wanted me  to. She always answered "You and I both know you cannot" usually followed up by "You need to see where this road leads...."

I still live and present primarily as male. In this hell-hole "Village" part-time female is certainly out. I haven't gotten the "I did not marry a woman" in a long time now. I do occasionally get "I can't think of you as a husband with nicer boobs then mine". I always get "I cannot imagine spending my life with anyone else". So her feelings have changed some. If/when we are able to move away from The Village and I can do part-time again.... We'll see how it goes. Even that is now a Need vs Want. Plus a lot of fear factor not being able to really present as female out and about in the light of day as I was. She thinks she'll be OK with that.

It's one day at a time really. One baby-step at a time. We both have made compromises in order to preserve what we feel is important to. What is paramount is "The Us". I guess it also helps that we both place the others happiness above our own.

Just because you are trans does not sentence you to "All or Nothing"  There is vast spectrum between Cis-Female and Cis-Male you may be able to find a niche to live within. Broadly speaking, as I need to put it for myself today, is the Non-Binary subset. A sort of having your cake and eating it to. Also keep in mind what you may need to do today to alleviate the GD may work for a long long time. Like my occasional escapes from maleness by cross-dressing did for decades. With the short stints of low-dose HRT. No drastic changes, beyond find peace with yourself and preserving what is important

Quote from: Sophia Sage on January 02, 2017, 02:04:17 PM
If you are truly female in spirit, then your wife doesn't love the real you, only the image you perpetuated for all these decades.  So, from my perspective, there is no marriage to preserve.  It wasn't real to begin with.

I agree with this 100%.

But there are an increasing number of transgender people out there who don't have a fully female gender identity.  For them, being transgender is more a matter of gender expression than gender identity.  And it's dangerous when these types start considering transitioning medically.

lisawb, instead of asking yourself if you should transition or not, maybe you should ask yourself a different question - "What is your true gender identity?"  If you're a transsexual (fully female in spirit, as Sophia Sage wrote), then the answer is to transition.  If not, it's probably not a good idea.  There is nothing wrong with having a non-binary gender identity of some sort though!  As long as you own it and accept yourself for who you are.  And once you know what your true gender identity is, it becomes a lot easier to figure out what your next action steps should be.

Talk to your therapist, ask her to help you figure out what your gender identity is.  Once you know, you can search for other people with the same gender identity and look to them for guidance on what they did to make things work.

Lisa, I tried that.  The children were all adults, and the youngest, at age 25, was told by me about being transgender a few weeks after I told my wife that I had some serious problems and needed to start therapy, then that I was transgender.  That was in March.  I told them about treatments, HRT, surgeries, gender presentation ("cross-dressing", although really not cross if we identify as female and dress female), ongoing therapy, and support groups. They agreed to let me dress (generous of them...) while away from home, but not at home, and to permit me to have ongoing therapy.  In June they agreed that perhaps HRT would be a good idea, what with my still being suicidal and depressed.  They refused to learn anything about gender dysphoria and its treatment, refused to even look at the basic APA brochure on being a transgender person.

In October I was confronted by my wife and daughter and put to the question, "You want to be a woman, don't you?"  Catching on finally?  "Yes, God help me, but yes, I do". OK, I can remain in the home for the holidays, and then I have to leave.  Presumably she'd host her holiday parties and events, and I'd hover about like Banquo's ghost.  Fun times.  Finally, the stress and worries that Someone Might See Me became too much, and in mid-October I was told I'd have to be out by November 1st.  Divorce would happen.

I realize how terrible this sounds, but in retrospect, this was probably the best thing that could have happened.  She doesn't have the distress of worrying about her friends seeing me, or her family 'finding out'.  (They all know now.). She doesn't have to fret about my 'being caught'.  I am living on my own for the first time in almost a half century, and started my full-time, real life experience the day I moved out.  I have new friends, and an actual life of my own.  I'm more socially active than I had ever been while in hiding.

The whole smoking heap of my experience in in this thread:  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,215456.0.html

TL;DR - Not transitioning to save my marriage didn't work,


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote from: Mirya on January 02, 2017, 05:37:58 PM
lisawb, instead of asking yourself if you should transition or not, maybe you should ask yourself a different question - "What is your true gender identity?"

I totally agree with this and it is ultimately what I'm doing. At present I do identify as gender fluid and I'm ok with that if that truly is my identity.  However, I can't say definitively that it is and that is something my therapist and I have been working on. The problem is after 39 years of denial and shame, I'm having a very hard time determining what is truly my identity versus what is simply been conditioned behavior. I'm still trying to determine if the connections I feel to my masculine elements are truly part of my identity or just what's been the norm for me and so in some ways despite the dysphoria is a comfortable place.

For me, if I conclude that yes indeed gender fluid is who I am, then medical transition makes no sense to me. It seems I'd just be trading one set of problems for another.  Instead of feeling dysphoric with my male body when I'm feeling feminine, I have to imagine I'd just be dysphoric with my feminized body when I'm feeling masculine. The only exception I could see to this might be (and I'd have to talk to an endo about this) low dose HRT to maybe feminize some features so I can shift more easily between presentations.

On the other hand, if I determine that these days when the dysphoria is at its least are not really days of identifying as male, that I'm still in some form of denial or repression, and that ultimately I am truly female, then obviously medical transition is something I feel I NEED to do.

So I apologize, I tend to speak in terms of transition being the tipping point but you're correct, what I need to focus on is discovering and accepting my own gender identity. I didn't mean to come off as if I'm putting the cart ahead of the horse.

Examine your feelings.  How do you feel when you are gendered male?  How do you feel when you are gendered female?

Quote from: lisawb on January 03, 2017, 08:40:09 AM
So I apologize, I tend to speak in terms of transition being the tipping point but you're correct, what I need to focus on is discovering and accepting my own gender identity. I didn't mean to come off as if I'm putting the cart ahead of the horse.

It's good that you realize this.  It's a big step.    So now we come to the heart of the matter, and what you wrote in your first post in this thread:

Quote from: lisawb on January 02, 2017, 01:52:14 PM
How many of you are currently in a situation where your marriage, specifically your spouse, is the only thing keeping you from pursuing transition?

...is not actually true.  It's not your spouse that's keeping you from pursuing transition.  It's you.  Actually, I took a cursory look at your history of posts (you only have a dozen or so, so it didn't take long).  And it seems that in many of them, you are putting the blame on your wife for not being able to transition, or express yourself and your identity.  Now that's understandable, especially if she's not very accepting as you say.  But I believe you have to put that out of your mind and instead focus on what it is about you that's keeping yourself from being totally honest with who you are.

It's your own denial and rejection of your true self for all these years that is keeping you from seeing the truth about what your gender identity really is.  It's going to take time to peel away all the layers and barriers you've put up within yourself.  But keep trying!  Continue your therapy sessions and be completely honest with your therapist.  I also found that when I was going through a similar process of discovering my gender identity, keeping a journal helped me to collect and organize my thoughts.  Take a notebook with you to your therapy sessions.  Take notes during the session and afterward.  And keep that notebook with you throughout the day.  Record your thoughts daily, and you will find the answer in time. 

Mirya, your post turns out to be quite prophetic. I'm reading your post after just getting back from my therapist and we had a conversation about exactly what you mention above. You and my therapist are right.  Additionally, I can see that I'm not being accurate in how I describe things either.

Right now, where I see my wife holding me back (and she says she is too) is from experimenting and exploring. I feel like there is more I could be doing to explore my gender identity (including more forms of presentation in public, including full female presentation) that I'm not doing right now solely because of her reactions.  She can't face me dressed in any feminine attire, can't even look at any of my feminine wardrobe items, and get's emotionally crushed anytime I try something new (makeup, mixed wardrobe, shaving, etc.) 

I don't mean to make it sound like I'm blaming or resenting my wife.  I'm not, although sometimes I do have to remind myself to see things from her perspective. But there also is no denying that if she was able to be more supportive or if I was in a different life situation, I'd be doing more than I am right now in terms of exploring my gender.

That said, thank you for resetting my mindset on this.  Often times it's so easy to get caught up in trying to accelerate the process that I lose sight of what my goals should be (let alone remembering to just enjoy the journey).  The simple fact is even this whole thread is a result of me trying to push too fast and anticipate things that could occur down the road rather than just focusing on what's here in front of me today.

I did resent my wife. I hate to say it, but it's true. For years, up until three years ago when I realized that I'm transgender, I resented her for holding me back from "something", but I didn't know what that something was. When I figured it out I began to let go of that resentment, but I still feared losing her. I only got past the fear by knowing that my despair at the way I was living my life was pushing me to suicide. Finally I decided that I might lose her by becoming the "other woman" in our relationship, but that we would certainly lose each other if I didn't jump. And so I did. I haven't quite managed to lose her yet, but she holds her cards pretty close to the vest. Ultimately I don't know what she'll do.

I've recently come to understand that all those years I pretended to be a man I was too hollow to love myself. Without loving myself I couldn't truly love someone else.

I love her with all my heart now, even as I'm coming to believe that she can never truly love me as I really am.

I resented my wife too and even found a way to blame her for my not being able to cure myself of the trans.  It made me mean and if I hadn't taken some steps to get treatment my marriage may have ended due to how I always treated her.  Even if it hadn't ended it would have remained extremely miserable. 

Things are better now than they have probably ever been. 


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

lisawb, I read your introductory post where you mentioned that your wife is going to therapy too.  And even going with you to couples therapy.  I think that shows that she's trying, and she deserves a lot of credit for that.

But if she's also limiting you from exploring your gender identity as you describe, that can definitely be a difficult hurdle you.  And even for her really.  You owe it to yourself to discovery who you really are, and she deserves to know who you really are too.  Maybe if you explain to her that it's a journey for both of you to take together, and include her in all of your thoughts and decision-making processes relating to this journey, it may bring you closer together.  (Or it might take you further apart!)  Regardless, as your spouse, she deserves to be fully included in your process of discovery.  Invite her to travel with you on this journey, so she can see for herself that there are no secrets or surprises between the two of you.

There's also a book by Dara Hoffman-Fox, "You and Your Gender Identity: A Guide to Discovery".  You may find it helpful to read and work through the book - http://discoveryourgenderidentity.com/

Damn Mirya you're right there again.  I actually ordered Dara's book a few weeks ago and am working through it at present.

My wife is trying very hard and if I did anything to make it sound like I don't give her credit for that then I mis-represented myself.  She's in a very conflicted and difficult space right now.  In her mind she keeps telling herself that she should be more accepting and supportive. But her heart, her emotions are still a state of grieving and despair. In one area of her mind she wants to be right there for me but she simply can't bring herself to be and so she beats herself up for that all the time.

All I can do right now is be as open with her as possible. She knows that despite the fact that she's drawn certain boundaries of what she simply cannot tolerate, she also knows that until I fully understand my gender identity, I can't guarantee that I won't cross those boundaries. 

I am branching out and exploring a bit.  I travel a lot for business and so at my wife's encouragement, have been taking clothes that allow me to alter my presentation.  At home she pretty much has given me the entire lower level as my space to be in.  Still I have to hide from her and any new steps I take to change my presentation, even if she doesn't see them (especially if it's out in public) are another crushing blow to her.  As she described it, it's like another part of the me she knew is dying each time I do something new.

So at this point I am doing my best to be patient and slowly build on my exploration.  New activities, new presentation, new acquaintances, etc. I'm taking it slow to give her time to come to terms with each new step. But she is the reason I'm moving as slow as I am, we both know it, and she also understands that it puts me in a tough spot. 

The bright spot is that she is still here and she is trying.  Even our couples therapist commented in our very first session on the level of love and respect for each other that we exhibit.  She referred to it as "palpable".  Neither of us wants to split but we both have to make sure we have our own emotional and mental needs met.  So to borrow a therapy term, right now we're "doing the work". 

Well it was pretty easy to recommend that book, because there aren't that many books out there that deal with the topic. 

I think you're on the right path.  And to hear that you're being open and honest with your wife about it all - that's really great.  I hope you find the answers you seek.

Quote from: lisawb on January 03, 2017, 11:46:54 PM
So to borrow a therapy term, right now we're "doing the work".

I have been following along with this conversation and I have to agree with you. I think you are both doing the work. Seeing you dressed may not be about the clothes/beauty/routine/HRT etc quite often it turns out to be what they  represent that is the issue.

Maybe your wife is still grieving for your loss and the loss of your marriage the way it was. I know my wife did not just go "oh Great where do we start". She had to work out a heap of her own stuff and I am sure she is going through the 5 stages of grief...still after all this time. But like your wife she is working on it and will get there. If you keep working on it and you do have that unique relationship like a few of us have that can weather the T storm then you will be OK...just don't give up on each other.

I love my wife and family too much to not transition.

Liz

I had to sit and make a hard decision.

I chose to live a life for others for the first 38 years of my life. and during my marriage i was getting angry and resentful. i got severly depressed, my x-wife is extremely transphobic and anti-gay.. but anti trans in a big way.

when we got together i told her that i tried a transition and failed and am where i am.. she has forgotten this and over the years got more and more transphobic. i couldnt see myself getting old with her.. i had to make a choice either end life or end the marriage.. i decided to end the marriage to be on the planet for my children.. i miss my babies but am far happier and at peace with myself. i couldnt not transition and stay married, i have to make the change..its become imperative now.

I reached a point months ago, severly depressed and nearly ended myself, and all that stopped me was someone yelling for someone they know.. it shook me out of what i was going to do.. i had to go on a trip for work and seriously think about my life and where it was headed that weekend.. and had to make the choice to end it, things had been going down hill for a long long time..

This is such an interesting thread and I really feel for you Lisa. The thread I started here shares lots in common: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,218271.0.html?PHPSESSID=iqbeanhkcb4hqu93e1sd0j2le7

All I think I can say is to echo what others have said here and on my thread: you have to explore your true self. I'm lucky in that my partner only properly got together with me when I began transitioning fully i.e. my orchiectomy. So in that sense it's part of the deal or package. But whilst we ourselves focus on these parts of our bodies, actually in terms of relationships are they really that vital? Isn't there so much more to love than just that. I know of plenty of couples who have stayed together and grown together through this.

Much love to you through it,

Rach
xx

Stream of consciousness stuff....sorry.
     I love my wife of 33 years and she loves me. We want to work it out. We want to make it work. I dress 24/7 because I am a transitioning woman.  It has made things....interesting? She stifles my femininity. Not intentionally....but just by her being, standing in silent judgement. Her husband looking and acting more like a woman everyday has her reaching for the Xanax. She medicates while I transition. I want her to be happy but don't know how. She wants me to be happy but can't manage to give me what I need. It's as if it's out of our hands. Where will it go? I have a plan. I've had many plans. They all disintegrate like dust in the wind. I sometimes feel as though she thinks I'm going to "snap out of it". That her husbands coming back and she merely needs to bite her tongue and bide her time. My heart breaks for her. She never did anything to deserve what is happening in her life. I can't go back to a life of despair. This summer brings FFS...I'm elated. She's distraught. Sometimes I man up for her to make her feel good. All my triggers get tripped and I'm forced to go back to being myself before the dysphoria drives me mad. She falls back into depression. Something has to change but the forced change could kill our relationship. I live in such a schizoid pseudo reality right now that I fear my and her health are on the line. How can I make this right. How will I go back? ................back to what? What lies forward? Who knows?
     I have a plan, I've had many plans....They all disintegrate like dust in the wind.

jentay1367, I feel like Sophia Sage's first post in this thread is especially relevant to your situation.