I want everyone to know that the following is not a condemnation of the process of therapy.  I feel that for those who need it counseling and therapy can be very beneficial.  Understand that this is a personal account and is not intended to sway anyone for or against.

I just want to vent.

So anyway, I went to the doctor to begin HRT.  The doctor had no issue with recognizing the truth of my request, and was very kind.  My understanding when I left that day was that if my labs checked out OK I would be prescribed medication.  My labs did check out, but unfortunately the head of transgender care, who is transgender herself, 'feels it very important that I have formal counseling before starting hormones'.

Now, I understand that this comes from an experienced person, but it makes it no less a bad course of action.  This is part of what I wrote in response:

>start quote
I have to say I am extremely disappointed. While I understand the 'The Standards of Care' may require counseling, I was hoping very much to be able to move forward without it.

Having to see a counselor was my biggest worry, not because of any fear of what may come out in a session, but because it represents another failure within society of the recognition of my person. For me it is just another obstacle imposed and waiting for recognition from yet another is quite frustrating.

While I still have strong emotions regarding my past and future they are in no way debilitating. I have been in the process of 'transitioning' for years, my desire to start HRT is an absolute, the decision is already made. The only thing I am missing are the medications.

I have researched and experienced first hand the emotional and physical effects of 'transitioning', and I have plenty of contact with people who have been and currently are going through the process. As a matter of fact I disagree with the term 'transitioning' as the connotation is that I am becoming 'something other' rather than finally letting my true self show. I prefer the term 'emerging'.

I will of course accept any information about the effects of the medications, but as far as being informed about the personal and societal impact, I am very well aware. I am an adult and of sound mind and did not come to this realization lightly.

While I do desire the resource of a counselor, it is for after I have have started medications and more for the purpose of being able to help others with my emotional and physical changes.
>end quote

The thing that really makes me angry is the assumption that I would not be informed, or that I have come to the conclusion due to some misconception on my part.  What would have been far better would be simply asking me if I felt the need to see a therapist.

Now I have the added stress, expense and waste of time while I have to wait around for yet another person to say 'yes, you should be on HRT'.  No S--- Sherlock.

ARG, ARG, ARG!

You, of course, have a right to feel your own feelings and to express your frustrations.

((HUG))

It will be okay. It really will be.

Therapy is not meant to be a challenge to your identity, nor an affront to your intelligence.

This isn't actually about you at all. And it isn't a system gone haywire.

It is what it is, and how you choose to look at it won't change the outcome, but it will impact your state of mind.

Most everybody here has complied with such requirements, and we all survived, lol..

So will you, sweetie, so will you...

((HUGS))

Missy

Are there informed consent options near you?

Thank you Missy, I know you have nothing but good wishes, and that does help.

I hope you understand though, how I look at it will change the outcome.  The fact that this has happened is a wrong thing.  A requirement to be fulfilled from false assumptions.

The information that most everyone has gone through a similar process only serves to prove how wrong it is, the 'argument from authority' is bad critical thinking.

My identity can't be challenged, it just is.  Gravity does not ask permission.  I wish people would recognize they are not the gatekeepers of reality, that free will does not depend on opinion for it's truth.

In this instance the requirement of counseling has caused far greater harm than it will provide good, for many reasons.

I will calm down after a while, but there is no method in which I will ever believe that 2+2=5.

Quote from: FTMax on February 04, 2017, 06:37:56 PM
Are there informed consent options near you?

Max, yes, that is one of the reasons I chose my health care provider.  As angry as I am right now, I'm hoping this is a miscommunication and that by 'counseling' it is meant a meeting to provide me with a method of informed consent.

Veda,

I wasn't implying that the majority of us were done any wrong at all. Just the opposite, in fact...

The reality is that most all have benefitted from the process, no matter how convinced we were of the lack of necessity.

I was BORN female, with a vagina, uterus, ovaries...

Do you think I needed to be told it was okay for me to take estrogen?

I'm gonna recuse myself, lol, because you need this time to feel what you feel. And that's right, and proper. But I will say one last thing, ummm, noooo, I won't... ;-)

I hope you feel better soon. I am sorry you are upset, and disappointed, and angry...

((HUGS))

Missy

Were you clearly presenting as female for all your interactions with your health care providers?

In my personal experience, even transgender-friendly health care providers responded more positively to me when I presented as female.  Back when I first talked to my doctor to ask for HRT, I presented as female the best I could.  I didn't pass, but I did it anyway.  I wanted them to know that I was serious about this and unafraid to be seen as who I am (although I was actually pretty afraid because I didn't pass).

I know it's totally unfair, but the effort in your presentation does matter.  It is not unlike putting in the effort to putting on a suit for a job interview.

Mirya,

I did think about that, but honestly I feel for me it would have been disingenuous. 

I understand what you are saying in how it is like presenting for a job interview, actually a good idea, just not for me in this instance. 

Just to clarify, the doctor I saw had no problem with starting me on HRT and it was very clear to him the reason for it; it was the head of the transgender services who had the requirement, a person I have had no contact with.

(edit)

If this turns out to be due to an interdepartmental disagreement about procedure I'm going to be really P----- Off.

Frankly, I did one initial visit with a therapist, just to say i did. We went over my mindset, made sure there were no underlying problems that hrt could present issues with (I am bipolar) and got a "yup, I see no problems" I have not been back nor intemd to unless I feel I need to

Another thing that has occurred to me is that this is some form of initial vetting process; a test of my resolve by at first denying me my request and seeing how I respond.

Of course I really can't see a medical professional doing something so sophomoric...

Arg, maybe my fairy godmother will show up soon and knock some sense into people with her magic wand.

Sense of humor, slowly coming back...

Quote from: patrick1967 on February 04, 2017, 07:20:32 PM
Frankly, I did one initial visit with a therapist, just to say i did. We went over my mindset, made sure there were no underlying problems that hrt could present issues with (I am bipolar) and got a "yup, I see no problems" I have not been back nor intemd to unless I feel I need to

Thats what I'm hoping for.  It's just that I had the OK and then the rug got pulled...

Quote from: MissGendered on February 04, 2017, 06:56:43 PM
Veda,

I wasn't implying that the majority of us were done any wrong at all. Just the opposite, in fact...

The reality is that most all have benefitted from the process, no matter how convinced we were of the lack of necessity.

I was BORN female, with a vagina, uterus, ovaries...

Do you think I needed to be told it was okay for me to take estrogen?

I'm gonna recuse myself, lol, because you need this time to feel what you feel. And that's right, and proper. But I will say one last thing, ummm, noooo, I won't... ;-)

I hope you feel better soon. I am sorry you are upset, and disappointed, and angry...

((HUGS))

Missy

I get you hon, and thanks.

Look at that, group therapy...

The vetting sucks, but there are people who aren't sure this is what they want and it's to eliminate those as well as figure out how to care for you and address you.

Veda,
I am so very sorry for your difficulties. I can imagine how frustrated I would have felt.

For what it's worth, the way my informed consent happened was:

1. I sent simultaneous messages to both my primary care provider, and Transgender Services Program at Group Health with me requesting a referral for gender therapy, that I am transgender and would like to seek HRT.

2. When I saw my physician I presented female. I wore breast forms under my bra and a cute top with fashionable women's jeans.

3. I told the physician that I was in the process of seeking the gender therapist referral from the Transgender Services Program. The physician ordered the blood tests at the same time giving me a probable program of HRT.
The blood tests came back ok, and the doctor seemed ok so far. No prescription yet, just probable dosages for my information.

4.The Transgender Services Program social worker assigned to my case called me and I had a very lengthy in-depth telephone conversation with her lasting for for more than an hour and a half. She referred me to my gender therapist.

5. I had already begun seeing my therapist when I re-contacted my physician stating that I am in therapy, and that I would like a prescription for HRT now. The physician responded with my actual HRT prescription.

So for my case, very likely I had already fulfilled the criteron of having therapy before HRT because of my own course of actions.

Again, Veda,
I am so sorry for you.
I hope my own advice previously did not lead to expectations that were later not met.

Donna

Quote from: Kylo on February 04, 2017, 07:57:27 PM
The vetting sucks, but there are people who aren't sure this is what they want and it's to eliminate those as well as figure out how to care for you and address you.

Yes, I know it ultimately comes from the desire to do good, and to help protect people from making the wrong decision, but there are other methods that work better and don't cause such frustration.

Informed consent is one method that works very well and also provides a way to discover any issues without undo interference.

The simple fact is the process is long enough that one could start with only minor risk and if for some reason there are serious doubts it can stop before any permanent changes occur.

It's akin to testing edibility of new food source, you don't start by trying to figure out if you are hungry or not, that is a given.  You start by tasting a small amount and seeing what your reactions are.

How will I know with certainty that HRT is the way to go?  I have to start HRT to find out.

Quote from: Donna on February 04, 2017, 08:09:50 PM
Veda,
I am so very sorry for your difficulties. I can imagine how frustrated I would have felt.

For what it's worth, the way my informed consent happened was:

1. I sent simultaneous messages to both my primary care provider, and Transgender Services Program at Group Health with me requesting a referral for gender therapy, that I am transgender and would like to seek HRT.

2. When I saw my physician I presented female. I wore breast forms under my bra and a cute top with fashionable women's jeans.

3. I told the physician that I was in the process of seeking the gender therapist referral from the Transgender Services Program. The physician ordered the blood tests at the same time giving me a probable program of HRT.
The blood tests came back ok, and the doctor seemed ok so far. No prescription yet, just probable dosages for my information.

4.The Transgender Services Program social worker assigned to my case called me and I had a very lengthy in-depth telephone conversation with her lasting for for more than an hour and a half. She referred me to my gender therapist.

5. I had already begun seeing my therapist when I re-contacted my physician stating that I am in therapy, and that I would like a prescription for HRT now. The physician responded with my actual HRT prescription.

So for my case, very likely I had already fulfilled the criteron of having therapy before HRT because of my own course of actions.

Again, Veda,
I am so sorry for you.
I hope my own advice previously did not lead to expectations that were later not met.

Donna

Thanks Donna, no your advice didn't lead me to any expectations, the doctor telling me that if my labs were good I could start HRT led me to expectations. 

I'll live, just another friken hoop to jump through, one day HRT medication may be available over the counter.  One pill for boy, another for girl.

I am totally with you, Veda.
I am convinced that you will eventually get to the "Promised Land" of starting HRT.

I have tears of empathy for you.
You WILL get there, Veda.

Donna

Veda,

   I for one, would feel much the same as you do had this happened to me. So I think I understand somewhat how you feel and I'm sorry it is turning out this way for you.

   In my case, I probably would have benefited by going though the process they appear to have in mind for you. Now I am talking of it possibly doing me good, not you, not everyone else. I am sure they have the patient's best interests in mind though it isn't the way you would have it. The disappointment of thinking your HRT was "In the bag" and having it delayed is, I'm sure, devastation and your anger is understandable.

   My primary care doctor offered to refer me for therapy and I agreed. I think it may do me some good. I see a psychiatrist for the initial intake screening on the 23 rd. Given the way I started this journey, she may well think I'm nuts and need more than gender therapy.
   Always the one to put the cart before the horse, and positive this is what I want, I started HRT, then told my doctor then asked for prescriptions, and now will be starting some sort of therapy, Now isn't that crazy? It's bassackwards I tells ya! Bassackwards!.  Not only that, but now after the giddiness of of starting, telling the doc, getting my scripts and feeling changes happening within me. I've come down. I'm still sure this is what I want but now wondering if it is what I should be doing. Maybe its a mistake? What of my family and friends? I'm second guessing myself one minute all the while eager to continue.  Sometimes I think I have to be nuts.
    This is why I think I could have benefited from doing it in the recommended order. IE Talk with my doctor, see the shrink and get the referral to gender therapy, then start HRT. I just hope she won't agree with me and confirm I'm nuts. I guess I'll find out. Meanwhile I'll continue my HRT.

  I truly wish you well and hope your meeting is to get the formal go-ahead for HRT as you want. Let the anger go and see what actually transpires. It just may be another step on that road to your happy destiny.

   Jeanette

Quote from: Donna on February 04, 2017, 08:31:28 PM
I am totally with you, Veda.
I am convinced that you will eventually get to the "Promised Land" of starting HRT.

I have tears of empathy for you.
You WILL get there, Veda.

Donna

Thanks hon, I will get there, just wish 'the system' wouldn't add insult to injury.
I hope not to many tears, you should save them for tears of happiness.
Of course, the quality of mercy is not strained...

Looks like you are almost two weeks now, how are you doing?

Quote from: JeanetteLW on February 04, 2017, 08:59:42 PM
Veda,

   I for one would feel much the same as you do had this happened to me. So I think I understand somewhat how you feel and I'm sorry it is turning out this way for you.

   In my case I probably would have benefited by going though the process they appear to have in mind for you. Now I am talking of it possibly do me good, not you not everyone else. I am sure they have the patient's be interests in mind though it isn't the way you would have it. The disappointment of thinking your HRT was "In the bag" and having it delayed is I'm sure devastation and your anger is understandable.

   My primary care doctor offered to refer me for therapy and I agreed. I think it may do me some good. I see a psychiatrist for the initial intake screening on the 23 rd. Given the way I started this journey she may well think I'm nut and need more than gender therapy.
   Always the one to put the cart before the horse and positive this is what I want I started HRT, then told my doctor and then asked for prescriptions, and now will be starting some sort of therapy, Now isn't that crazy? it's bassackwards I tells ya! Bassackwards!.  Not only that but now after the giddiness of of starting, telling the doc, getting my scripts and feeling changes happening within me. I've come down. I'm still sure this is what I want but now wondering if it is what I should be doing. Maybe its a mistake? What of my family and friends? I'm second guessing myself one minute while eager to continue.  Sometimes I think I have to be nuts.
    This is why I think I could have benefited from doing it in the recommended order. IE Talk with my doctor, see the shrink and get the referral to gender therapy, then start HRT. I just hope she won't agree with me an confirm I'm nuts. I guess I'll find out. Meanwhile I'll continue my HRT.

  I truly wish you well and hope your meeting is to get the formal go-ahead for HRT as you want. Let the anger go and see what actually transpires. It just maybe another step on that road to your happy destiny.

   Jeanette

Thanks Jeanette.  I don't think it is all that crazy, maybe a little, but an OK crazy, not an OMG crazy.  I mean heck isn't it more crazy that we live in a society that doesn't recognize us as a healthy part of itself, that makes us think we are the 'bassakward' ones?  Jeez, we are talking of people who can't stand a boy actually being a girl (or the opposite, or whatever), but will have no problems inbreeding to the point of genetic abnormalities and who think mono-culture is the ideal.  I mean really, biodiversity much?  Anyway, I will not rant.