so, i am having a bit of a moral dilemma lately. i am almost done school for the career i want (firefighter) and i was talking to a customer at work today about school and the job field. since i pass, he has no idea i am trans (no one i work with does) and he casually mentioned that i will have a hard time getting in because the emergency services favour people of minority over white men (which to others, i am just a normal white dude). i get it, i was no stranger to that fact. firefighters are the worst for hiring mostly white men and little diversity. my mom has mentioned to me that i should mention that i am trans when applying for positions as a firefighter because it will help my chances too. she knows someone who is a volunteer firefighter who also agreed it will help my chances.

my problem is, i don't want to get a job based on something like me being trans. i want the job because i am qualified. i know i won't get the job SOLELY based on the fact i'm trans, but i know it might sway that decision. i just don't want to be someone to fill a quota, i guess. i have lived stealth my entire time i have transitioned. from school to work, no one knows and i like it that way because they don't treat me differently. i feel as if i did mention i am trans, it might get out to others. especially with firefighting as they are notorious gossips. i am not ashamed of being trans but that isn't all that i am. i also feel like i should just suck it up because if it helps me get a job in the field that is hard to get into, why not use every advantage i have? but my pride is too strong and i want to get it because as i said, i'm qualified.

my question is, what would you do if you knew you had a better chance of getting a job if you told your potential employer you were trans?

Hey there , firstly I am not aware of any LGBTQ quota for any company, let alone fire houses. And secondly in my humble opinion getting and keeping a job based on your qualifications and merits is much more important than getting and keeping a job for any other reasons. If you don't get that job, there are many other jobs similar to that that require your heroic abilities and pay just as well, like EMTs and animal control officers. Good luck!

I would not compromise my stealth status for anything, not even a job. But that's just me, I could go back into a very high paying profession, as long as I outed myself so I could carry my old resume forward. I will not.

But, your choice is your choice, but you asked for opinions..

Good luck, either way, but I bet the victory will be sweeter if you get the job based on merit..

Missy

I guess it would depend on how desperate I was for a job. Disclosure definitely wouldn't be ideal for me, even if it did get me a job.

There's a field I want to try my luck in soon, but it's one in which I'm not comfortable with people knowing. It might be advantageous in some respects to tell, but on the other hand could be limiting in an already cutthroat and judgemental business.

Good luck whichever path you choose.



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Yes, some cities work off the quota system, a fact that has been mentioned in the news. They are often liberal cities with a large minority population. If you are willing to relocate, there are cities were the most qualified are hired and quotas other than federal ones are not followed. A little research might turn up a more desirable city for you to work in.

Quote from: Dena on February 04, 2017, 07:56:23 PM
Yes, some cities work off the quota system, a fact that has been mentioned in the news. They are often liberal cities with a large minority population. If you are willing to relocate, there are cities were the most qualified are hired and quotas other than federal ones are not followed. A little research might turn up a more desirable city for you to work in.

well i live in canada, so it is generally a pretty liberal country anyway. my city is mostly people voting conservative but it is actually very liberal in terms of health care and resources for LGBTQ+ which i was surprised about. so i don't know if it would have a "quota system" but i have no issues relocating if it got me the job i wanted.

my issue is that i just don't want people to treat me differently or my life be in danger because of it. especially in a career where you're so heavily dependent on someone else to have your back. i have done everything i can to be stealth and i do not want to have to out myself unless it is 100% needed. it's like why work so hard to be stealth just to out yourself for a job?

I would apply for the job with my skills only. In my country women have been wanting to become fire fighters. Some succeed and manage the physical tests. BUT talk goes around they were picked because they are women and not because they qualify.

Women have the same physical requirements in tests as men.

I'd say don't break your secret unless it is a security matter somehow.

I agree with the general sentiment, don't out yourself just to get work. Let your merit speak for itself, and just be prepared to widen your net in your job search. 

Odds are your "stealth status" will be an illusion the moment you are handed the criminal background check paperwork and look at the question asking "Any previous names or aliases used?" With a firefighter being a public employee vs private hire, how much will then be made publicly available...?

Never the less, fire departments still hire white dudes based on test scores and I have little doubt the who you know factor as best as can be finagled under the rules.

From what I've seen living in the South, white men who meet the physical qualifications have no problems at all becoming fire fighters. Up north you used to have to score higher on a civil service exam (which actually didn't do anything because white schools were better than schools for minority students) but the courts tossed that out. There aren't effectively any sort of quotas any more. All they can do is try to advertise for applicants in communities of color and also try to enforce EEOC rules on the job (which is still a problem up north if you believe the papers).

I would not disclose my trans status. If they have a preference for anything it might be women, and you don't want to be seen as a woman on the job. This isn't academia where you get brownie points for being queer. You'll just get grief and it won't help you get the job. Pass all the qualifications and you will get hired. Again, the racial quotas were thrown out by the Supreme Court, they don't exist any more. What's left is it's illegal to harass people of color on the job, but the enforcement is a court system that means the complainant usually loses their job in the process. Do you want to be the trans complainant or do you want to do a job you love? If I were you I'd stay stealth.

Quote from: JoanneB on February 05, 2017, 06:21:18 AM
Odds are your "stealth status" will be an illusion the moment you are handed the criminal background check paperwork and look at the question asking "Any previous names or aliases used?" With a firefighter being a public employee vs private hire, how much will then be made publicly available...?

That's pretty paranoid. Few states have public records laws as expansive as Florida's; in many states, that sort of info would not be available. Plus, a person would have to find out that our OP is trans first and then request their HR records by name. They aren't going to pull HR records for thousands of people looking for the tr*****. First of all, the public entity might charge them for "creating a record" (their favorite game) and it would be extremely labor intensive to go through all those records once pulled. Plus, you don't know if the OP's original name is gendered or not. And the OP might have gotten their original records sealed, in which case I don't think they have to list it as an alias (correct me if I'm wrong). In some states, you can get a fresh original birth certificate issued with your preferred name.

Lots of jobs here in the UK require a CRB/background check these days, especially anything civil service. I guess they would 'know' too.

I'm reminded of a woman here in Ottawa who is a cop. She transitioned halfway through her career and is not only admired by her peers, she's an awesome cop. I know, because my hubby is with the police. Guys do not think of her anything different, she's never faced hazing or harassment. She is respected by all.

Also remember that any kind of public safety position is going to require some background checking, which would out you to at least human resources due to needing to disclose a former name. Occasionally (having been a police officer), some of the background check process is farmed out to other employees that don't have an HR role. So that information may still get passed around with no malicious intent as a part of the hiring process.

Personally, I would not disclose for the purpose of getting a job but I would recognize that I may not be able to maintain complete stealth throughout the hiring process.

I don't see it as a moral dilemma, just whether you want to out yourself or not. Only you can decide that, of course.

If it's a choice between "not putting food on the table" or having a steady income, I'd out myself. (I don't pass, but if I did...) One also has to consider the ramifications of actually being out in a field traditionally dominated by straight white males, and the likelihood of closeted discrimination.

You can still show and prove that you are eligible, but that's no guarantee that you'll be hired, and neither will outing yourself. Where I work (transit) for every anticipated opening, they get 300+ applicants. I've been doing this line of work for a couple of decades, and have done nearly all related fields very well, so I'd  already shown that I was a catch before I'd even thought about transioning. (As they whittled down the hundreds of applicants, I was "2 of 30" who were ultimately offered a position)

But I also recognize that work can be scarce...after all, there were 270+ who didn't make it, and most of them were qualified to one degree or another. What if I'd been #31? I wouldn't know, because they send out a simple "Thank you for your interest, but..." form letter. An extra few points for being LGBTQ wouldn't hurt, if one is in fact LGBTQ. (If one is not, but claims it just to get the points...now *that* is a real ethical issue).

Good luck!

It is not likely that volunteering the information that you are trans will help your odds in the hiring process.  If there are brownie points awarded for minorities,they will almost certainly ask you if you fit into one of the specific categories, either on an application form or in the interview.  Some potential affirmative action categories are invisible, so they have to ask if they apply.   If they ask, answer truthfully.  If they don't ask, it probably wouldn't help anyway.

Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on February 05, 2017, 06:41:06 AM
That's pretty paranoid. Few states have public records laws as expansive as Florida's; in many states, that sort of info would not be available. Plus, a person would have to find out that our OP is trans first and then request their HR records by name. They aren't going to pull HR records for thousands of people looking for the tr*****. First of all, the public entity might charge them for "creating a record" (their favorite game) and it would be extremely labor intensive to go through all those records once pulled. Plus, you don't know if the OP's original name is gendered or not. And the OP might have gotten their original records sealed, in which case I don't think they have to list it as an alias (correct me if I'm wrong). In some states, you can get a fresh original birth certificate issued with your preferred name.

with the background check, there is a place to say if you have previously used names. when i was getting my background check, i asked the lady because it had that and i was going to fill it out and she said that employers/volunteer would see that (because you give them the paper you fill out and it says if you have a record or not) and that i did not have to, so i didn't. so i think people would actually never find out, but i'm not sure. in canada, we can change our birth certificate, health card, and SIN card all with our legally changed name and gender. i do not think even when you change it for your SIN card (which they use to check your identity) it says that you previously had "female" down. that is why i think if i didn't want to tell people, they wouldn't actually know. i don't think being trans would get me a job easier and i think it would just make me feel like i had to prove myself more if i DID disclose it and got the job. i would feel like i got it solely based on that, etc. either way, i wouldn't care if like HR knew but i don't want people i work with every day to know, especially it being in a straight white CISGENDER male environment mostly. being transgender is not something i think about, so it is not something i think of immediately dropping into conversation because i am fully transitioned and pass 100% and i rather just not be treated differently based on that, personally or professionally.

I have noticed that when it comes to issues like this, especially where official documents are in play, that those of us that have actually been through the full name change and gender role switch, those of us that have maintained an actual stealth life, we don't get especially worried about the 'what if's' and we just continue to do what we must, while those that are only imagining such a thing, and still believing such a thing beyond THEIR grasp, project a fear that no matter what somebody does, there will be something that will ALWAYS out them, whether through some buried 'old name' fact, or whatever...

Yes, it is a kind of paranoia, one that is felt farrrr more than is actually justified. Those of us that actually have done the work, and taken the leaps of faith, have been more than generously rewarded for our efforts with zero outing by any kind of old paper trail or government agency. Experience speaks louder than fear.

I don't say this to call out those still paralyzed by fear, but to reassure those on the cusp of a new life, that those of us that are LIVING such lives, are doing so safely, and securely. Educating yourself and doing all you can to make your past invisible is the key, but for the most part, people, even government workers have better things to do than look for ways to ruin our lives. Being trans, or gender-variant, is not a crime.

Once we are living our lives, we see these more things clearly.

Missy

I recommend not outing yourself. Go with your gut feeling.