As the subject title says, who thinks about this sort of thing? By that, I mean, is it only trans people that think about wanting to change their gender and/or are tired of living in the gender role they were born into? I'm sure I've seen a topic about this before, but I'm just not in the mood right now to look for it (if such a topic does indeed exist). I've been thinking about transitioning for a few years now and have cross dressed for as long as I can remember. So by that description alone, does that make me a trans person, or some one whose just a bit "messed up"? There are other elements of things in my life that I find irritating and often make me feel socially awkward, such as wearing men's suits and going to weddings and other formal events. I came to the conclusion a few years ago that I just couldn't stand the sight of men's suits any more. Whether that's just because I've been out of work for a while and have had to go to loads of interviews that lead no where or I just generally dislike the look of them, I'm not 100% sure. Personally, I think it's the latter. I don't like the way they look on me, or their appearance in general. I do, however, really like the look of women's suits, especially those with skirts. There's just something nice about them.

I've also experienced an uncomfortable feeling when in a room full of men, and, in some way, can understand how a woman might feel in the same situation. I feel like the odd one out more times than not. I also think that has caused me to have a harder time looking for work because I don't know how I'd fit in with loads of other men, especially when they're talking about football and other "manly things". I know some women are into football, but the majority I've met, aren't. Either that, or they just don't like talking about the sport when there's loads of men around because men never talk about women's football. Personally, I love to see men and women in the same sports at the same time. Formula E had a couple of women in the first 2 seasons, but then they left.

So what do you think? Is it ONLY trans people that think about these sorts of things, or do "normal" (non trans) people think about it, too? I'd like to think it's the former, but with all the crazy thoughts that go through some people's heads these days, it could be either.

Chris

IMHO, I feel that anyone can have these thoughts.  For some, it's merely a deep sense of not fitting in.  For others, it is the start of a transition.  Though I dressed in private off and on much of my life, I NEVER considered myself Trans for the first 38 years of my life.  I saw myself (wrongly) as all male yet had most of the thoughts that you mentioned.  I only started to see myself as female in the past year and have only just set about transitioning I the last few months.  So for a very, very long time I would have fit the mold of non-trans with the thoughts you mentioned FWIW.

It is said that cis people never wonder about their gender.  Which means that anyone wondering is trans.  I am always leery of using "all" and "none" because there usually are exceptions, but in general the rule seems to hold.

I never considered myself to be trans for most of my life.  I wished I could be a girl, and I thought I was just weird.  I cross-dressed for a while and thought I was a pervert.  Along the way, I wondered (a lot) if I was trans, but I always managed to talk myself out of it.  (How messed-up is that, that' I'd rather have been a pervert than trans?)

Eventually I saw the writing on the wall and realized that I'd been trans all along.

It sounds to me like you are probably somewhere on the trans spectrum.  You don't have to call yourself that if you don't want to, but if you showed up at our support group, you'd be welcome.

Ask any cis person you know if they ever have or do think about their gender and I bet about 100% would say no...I have asked probably a dozen (family and a few friends)and they all say no, not until you decided to transition and told me, or something similar. Cis people just don't think about this stuff...
If you question your gender then you fit under the Trans umbrella. Where you fit under that umbrella is another story all together.

Liz

You all make very good valid points, thank you for your replies.

Having read some other topics on this forum, both recently and in the past, I think I have discovered something else that I think I can relate to. Some people have mentioned that they think that Testosterone has a negative affect on them, to which I often wonder that about myself. I've suffered from depression numerous times over the years, as I do right now, but it isn't usually always about outside causes, but instead, an internal feeling. I often get letters from my GP asking me to make appointments to go see my doctor, now I'm starting to think I really should consider doing so so that I might be able to explain some of these other feelings and hopefully get somewhere. About a year and a half ago, my doctor referred me to Charring Cross (I still haven't heard from them yet), as she didn't know enough about the particular subject, which is unfortunate, as she is quite a nice doctor. I only hope that I get to speak to another woman as nice as her, as I'd find it near on impossible to speak to a man about this.

Chris

I know the default state of trans-hood trends towards people not knowing they were trans for most of their life and often ending up as lesbians. But, I have always known I was trans or that I wanted to be biologically female. I thought I was and was kicked out of the girl's room in second grade. I got in a lot of trouble cause I kept at it. I eventually relented and made good, but the thoughts were always at the surface. Still, I didn't transition til 30, because I thought being a kinda femmy, weirdo guy was enough. I felt trans, though. Now I don't feel trans enough cause i'm too cis-het if that makes sense. It's kinda funny having been called a ->-bleeped-<- my whole life and now living completely femininely with a BF and a jiggly, sexy body but being considered a cis, heterosexual women.

But, I have heard people say they def would want to try out "being a girl" for a day or two and vice versa. Some people are adamant about not knowing, being someone else is too freaky I guess. I still feel like a freak and I have been on hormones for four years and have a long-term BF whom I love. I'm living in a dream. I never feel trans anymore, though. Now I just feel like a woman. I couldn't detransition if I wanted too. Sorry rambling...

Non-trans can think about it, but most apparently don't devote time and energy to it unless forced by circumstance.

In the same way I've never thought about what it would be like to have any number of medical conditions I've never had and couldn't pronounce the names of. . .

I could think about those but chances are I'm not going to, and not for any period of time unless one of them happens to me or people I care about.

Quote from: ElizabethK on February 20, 2017, 07:19:32 AM
Ask any cis person you know if they ever have or do think about their gender and I bet about 100% would say no...I have asked probably a dozen (family and a few friends)and they all say no, not until you decided to transition and told me, or something similar. Cis people just don't think about this stuff...
If you question your gender then you fit under the Trans umbrella. Where you fit under that umbrella is another story all together.

Liz

I've asked dozens of cis people if they ever thought about their gender, 100% thought I was nuts.  The thought about thinking of their gender was totally foreign to them.

I ask a second question: (need to ask this first though, earlier in the conversation the better)
You are walking down a hallway and someone walks around a corner about 15 feet in front of you.  What is the first thing you notice?  I've had only one or two day gender.  It really is the first thing everyone notices but they don't realize it.

I would suggest that many people think about culturally defined gender roles while few of us think, often obsessively, about our gender identity and expression without being part of the transgender world.

We know modern feminism railed against gender roles that defined women as property and men as our overlords for life.
Gender roles that place arbitrary and capricious limits on our ability, talents and aspirations are harmful to every boy who dreams of ballet or every girl who wants to be a mechanic as crude examples.

Anatomy is our physical vessel but need not dictate our dreams or destiny.

I'm sure the idea is not foreign to "cis-gendered" people. I think it's common to at least question your identity once in your life in some way or the other, to wonder what it would be like to be the opposite sex. At it's core as a general question, it's not much different then wondering what life would be like if you made different choices. "What if I was more athletic as a kid?" "What if I had superpowers?" "What if I didn't do this or that" etc.  It's easy to wonder how different life would be if you were born differently then you were, and I don't believe that nobody has done that except for members of our general community. The difference is that when WE thought of that, we realized that the idea wasn't as silly as it sounds to somebody else. We realize that it actually is an idea that makes sense and might even answer many other questions that we ask ourselves day to day about our lives.

Quote from: CrystalMatthews0426 on February 20, 2017, 12:49:50 PM
I'm sure the idea is not foreign to "cis-gendered" people. I think it's common to at least question your identity once in your life in some way or the other, to wonder what it would be like to be the opposite sex. At it's core as a general question, it's not much different then wondering what life would be like if you made different choices. "What if I was more athletic as a kid?" "What if I had superpowers?" "What if I didn't do this or that" etc.  It's easy to wonder how different life would be if you were born differently then you were, and I don't believe that nobody has done that except for members of our general community. The difference is that when WE thought of that, we realized that the idea wasn't as silly as it sounds to somebody else. We realize that it actually is an idea that makes sense and might even answer many other questions that we ask ourselves day to day about our lives.

Good points and we can simply take a look at all the movies/media where the plot device is some magical happenstance that turns one into the opposite sex temporarily.  They are notably comedies because isn't that just so impossibly hilarious?  Not so much to us, perhaps, as the butt of the joke?

Quote from: Tessa James on February 20, 2017, 12:59:07 PM
Good points and we can simply take a look at all the movies/media where the plot device is some magical happenstance that turns one into the opposite sex temporarily.  They are notably comedies because isn't that just so impossibly hilarious?  Not so much to us, perhaps, as the butt of the joke?

One of my favorite variants of this was the 1991 Ellen Barkin movie Switch. For those who are unfamiliar, it is about a ladies man (for lack of a better term) who likes to sleep around and be pretty much a jerk. His three girlfriends conspire to murder him, and God can't decide whether to let him into Heaven or not, so makes him a deal that he can go back to earth, but he has to find just one female who doesn't hate him. The catch is that he is sent back as a beautiful woman. It was a rather cheesy film, but kind of funny. I remember watching it on HBO when I was much younger and thinking how cool it would be to just randomly wake up one day as a woman. I think that might have actually been the beginning of this journey.

Something that distinguishes cis thought patterns from trans though patterns is that a cis person might think:
"I wonder if I'm trans."
"No I don't think so."
"Okay."

The trans version of the same thought is:
"I wonder if I'm trans."
"No I don't think so."
"I wonder if I'm trans."
"Hell, no."
"I wonder if I'm trans."
"No way."
"I wonder if I'm trans."
"No I don't think so."
...
(until)
"Hmm, maybe I am."

If the answer were truly no, we wouldn't keep asking the question.

I only think about my gender because I'm constantly  aware how wrong its been my whole life. I wish it wasn't an issue and just let me live in peace.

Leaving the house....check
Car keys.................check
Money....................check
Gender Identity.....check

Cis people would tend to skip the last check, as would most of those who have fully transitioned and living in their desired role.

I hear many people saying "I think they would..."

Here is a challenge...Go and Ask...you are going to be surprised!

I used to "think" of course they thought about this...I was wrong, very wrong...ask 5 average cis people and see how you go.

Liz 

I remember way back in the deep dark recesses of my memory Harry Benjamin did a survey/study and found a lot/most people have thoughts of "What would life be like on the other side?" Just a passing thought or random thought experiments.

When it gets more often then hardly ever.... I'll toss you into the TG Universe. Without a big "You are Here" arrow, it is up to you to figure out where in that vast universe between cis-female and cis-male you are currently orbiting

Quote from: Shy on February 20, 2017, 02:54:59 PM
Leaving the house....check
Car keys.................check
Money....................check
Gender Identity.....check

Cis people would tend to skip the last check, as would most of those who have fully transitioned and living in their desired role.

Your last check was Funny to me.  This morning before leaving for work, I stopped to make sure I didn't screw up and put on something feminine or jewelry or eyeshadow... By mistake without thinking.   Less than two weeks before the check flips the other way!

Quote from: Shy on February 20, 2017, 02:54:59 PM
Leaving the house....check
Car keys.................check
Money....................check
Gender Identity.....check

Cis people would tend to skip the last check, as would most of those who have fully transitioned and living in their desired role.

I've gotta start doing this!  I keep going out wearing my ladies' watch.  It hasn't caused problems yet, but once it's warm enough to wear short sleeved shirts it will.  I have to stop and do a gender check before using a public washroom!

Quote from: Denise on February 21, 2017, 07:10:35 AM
Your last check was Funny to me.  This morning before leaving for work, I stopped to make sure I didn't screw up and put on something feminine or jewelry or eyeshadow... By mistake without thinking.   Less than two weeks before the check flips the other way!

Ha, yes I remember the days forgetting I had makeup on before walking out the door. Now I refuse to leave the house without it. It really is funny how quickly priorities change.
Two weeks and counting, you must be excited. Just be yourself girl, you'll be awesome!