Hey everyone, I could really use some of your great advice and comforting pats on the back right about now. Its 5am but I couldn't sleep any longer, I have too many dumb thoughts weighing down on me right now. What triggered it all is I'm having my next visit to the GIC in Oslo next monday (7 days from now), and I'm just a complete ball of nerves about it..

1. My main concern is not progressing, due to their track record with me. (WARNING: Lots of emotional Rambling)

This is the only place one can legally get HRT and covered surgery in all of Norway, and I had such a hard time gaining their 'trust'.. First contacted them when I was 18, thats actually close to 8 years ago now that I had my very first appointment. I've always been very shy and nervous, but at that time in particular I was absolutely terrified after just having come out to friends and family as the real me and facing the prospect of transitioning; it was such a daunting thing to undertake, even though I knew that it was the only right path for me.. I had 45 minutes there for what I hoped and expected would finally be someone who knew of the things I was feeling, and who would offer me support and guidance in where to go next.. I wasnt confident, I wasnt particulairly feminine and I certainly wasn't pretty.. I still had the taste in clothes of my teenage self that had only been slightly feminized by the adition of a few clearly female items into my otherwise androgynous clothing style.

What I got was 5 minutes of two women checking me out, asking me a few simple questions and stating that I wasnt 'ready'. Then I was sent packing -after 5 minutes of a 45 minute appointment I had waited 9 months for- without a shred of advice on how to proceed; no pointing me towards a therapist with trans experience, no nudges towards support groups, not a shred of helpful information.. 18 year old me was even less brave, intellegent and articulate than 25 year old me.. So I completely shattered. When I stood outside the GIC after my '5 minutes of fame' I felt every little droplet of hope that I could be happy as me -hope that had been carefully collected and built up my my dad and I over the last few months- just completely dried up. For 4 years after this I was as lifeless as a still healthy human can be, and I gave up on my carefully budding transition..

But I did manage to get back on the horse 2 years ago, and had to fight them for over a year and a half -while living full time- before they finally let me start HRT.. So after all this text (sorry!) here is whats eating at me the most; it took them 7 years from my first showing up until they let me start HRT, nearly 2 years of living full time with no medical assistance.. So when I go to my meet with them in 7 days, what progress could I possibly expect? I feel awful for being such a jealous horror, but I see so many who get to start HRT long before they even come out to their very closest family members, and certainly before they present as female to the whole world.. What is it about me that makes me not deserve this treatment from the professionals? Even within my own country others have completed their surgical transition within 2 years of coming out.. I'm 2 years full time and 8 years out to all my family and friends, yet still haven't got my SRS scheduled and only started HRT 3 months ago.

I can only asume I was the only insecure and shy 18-year-old to ever get in touch with them at the time, cause there is NO other excuse for being so cold to a person and not even afford her the time she was promised when she travelled 8 hours to see them.. I'm amazed at how confident and secure other 18-yos must be when they go there and face those women of steel, yet manage to break through and get what they need..

2. I'm worried about my voice. I have been struggling so much with making it sound good, it feels like I'm back in school and trying to get a handle on maths all over again; I study so hard and give it my very best effort, but it just seems to be beyond my abilities.. My concern is that when I see them next week, my only very minor progress vocally will cause them to hold me back and not progress my treatment at all.. In the last few months I've really progressed as far as passing visually; don't think most people notice at all anymore unless I open my mouth.. But the voice is my great barrier, and I simply need more time to work on it.

3. ..as the icing on the fustration cake I still have a big case of the loneliness, that I'm having a very hard time shaking. I miss dating so much and it has been so very long since I did it, but my experience with my last relationship means I just cant face another one with the wrong genitals.. Next time I do it I want it to be in a body I'm comfortable with, and how distant that is all depends on my GIC meeting in 7 days. I feel like so much is riding on what amounts to 1 hour 30 minutes of two people I don't know leafing through some papers and asking me some base questions about how I'm doing..

I would so love your thoughts on this everyone! And I'm sorry for being rambly and longwinded, this is coming from a very emotional place as I'm in an absolutely dreadful state right now.. Just a ball of nerves and tears . I think just typing it out helped me get out some of the fustration at how betrayed I feel by the people at the GIC..

My Dear Floof

You really have been through the mill haven't you. All I can say from here is I hope you do get to move forward.

What for you, would represent moving forward?

Can you ask for a review of your case by a higher authority within the clinic, will they tell you why it has taken so long so you are able to work on the issues they see. I would have thought the next step is ready for surgery as that seems to be your next goal.

You are living as your gender for two years and also have been dating and out to everyone...OMG what more could they want. 

So when you see them you may want to advocate for yourself and tell them the next step you are expecting, see what their reaction is. Ask them when you can expect your surgery referral. Think about what you want to ask and write it down so you don't forget.

I hope you feel better soon and the appointment is as straightforward  as we hope.

Liz

  Good for you that you keep fighting. Have you read this yet?

http://www.wpath.org/site_page.cfm?pk_association_webpage_menu=1351&pk_association_webpage=4648

I can't find anywhere in there where it says your voice has to sound a certain way.

It's the WPATH Standards of Care (SOC).  It's something all transitioning transwomen should read I think.  Unfortunately, sometimes we have to struggle with the system to get what we need.  And that means educating our care providers at times.  In my case last year I definitely had to seriously educate my doctor after he told me I would have to pay all the costs of transition myself and tried to deny me treatment. He was a young, religiously-motivated doc.    But after waiting 57 years I was not going to get turned me away.

You've got this. You're a woman now. Not a little girl anymore.



<I have corrected the post into English so it can be understood. i see no reason for expletives>
Cindy
Forum Admin

I'm sorry you had a bad first meeting with them. Can you bring a friend to support you with you to your appointment in a week?  Maybe that friend won't be afraid of putting some pressure on them and tell them what you need if the cat caught your tounge.

Unfortunately I don't know much about the standards in your country but perhaps you can find an online document that will explain the program in more detail. Other than that, I recommend that you write out what you want to say and the questions you want answered and bring some copies with you. You can refer to it during the interview and if you want, you can give them a copy to follow along with. Don't leave until you get all your questions answered because you are correct in that you should be farther along than you are and your medical system isn't helping you at all.

Sorry for the brief answers, I don't have much input here as I haven't done it yet, just done lots and lots of research, and I have at least one thing that may help...
1) That's certainly not the WPATH standards of care there, by that description...
2) The method of vocal feminization described in this video seems most likely to be effective, still not easy.  Get yourself a script and practice while recording it so you can play it back and have an accurate listen.
3) Can't help even the slightest there, got much the same problem.

Thank you so much for all your advice, it is really so valuable to me..

I should specify that surgery is indeed what I would consider the logical next step; at least I need to know that I'll be on a list somewhere, that it is an event coming up in the foreseeable future for me, and not just a nebulous possibility 10 years from now.. There are long waiting lists for even the less popular surgeons, and I certainly want to have the best chances I can at a good result.

Ohw, and the two ladies I met my first time there totally were and still are the heads of the GIC. I have recently read testimonials from Norwegian GIC patients that indicate they are rather infamous for being cold and having unreasonably high expectations before providing anyone treatment.

Not sure I have anyone I could ask to come with me, the friends I have study and work.. Have their own lives to live, and the GIC is a good 8 hour drive each way.. In winter the mountain passes are frequently closed due to bad weather so its likely I'll be flying over on Monday, and I don't really know anyone who would sacrifice their whole day -possibly taking time off work- just to hold my hand when I'm nervous .

The Norwegian clinic is supposed to follow WPATH from everything I've read, but it seems the people who run the place have a very different and strict interpretation of it.. It's apparently eased up a bit in the last year or so, which I guess is why I even got to start HRT at all.. But they still seem to demand a year of RLE before they will provide any sort of treatment, which doesn't seem to be the case for most countries from what I've read here on Susans!

Writing a list is a great idea, I'll absolutely do that.. I'm sure it would help to have a paper in hand when I lose my confidence and have a hard time getting my wishes across.  I'll try to build some courage and not let things go so easily, starting HRT was the best thing to ever happen to me and I'm frankly furious that they didn't let me at it sooner! Just imagine the kind of 25-year-old I would have been if this was year 7 of HRT for me.. A bit stuck in the past today, lots of bitterness and anger bubbling up.

Oh floof, I certainly feel for you. No it doesn't sound like they follow the WPATH standard very well. I have read that some doctors used to require a year full time living before treatment. That was an antiquated psychologist theory based standard from when the psychological professionals thought being trans was a mental illness of a sort. It's unfortunate that your very first appointment went the way it did. I wish you the best of luck in your upcoming appointment.

This surprises me... I have a close Norwegian friend in Oslo who uses the health care service and never says a bad word about it. No way should they be preventing you from getting medication on the basis of your voice.

If they are the heads of the clinic, perhaps in this case having someone with you to "witness" their behavior might actually stop them from doing this to you. If not, I would record the encounter on a pocket recorder. Might come in handy if it turns out they are treating you unfairly.

Quote from: josie76 on February 27, 2017, 06:45:22 AM
Oh floof, I certainly feel for you. No it doesn't sound like they follow the WPATH standard very well. I have read that some doctors used to require a year full time living before treatment. That was an antiquated psychologist theory based standard from when the psychological professionals thought being trans was a mental illness of a sort. It's unfortunate that your very first appointment went the way it did. I wish you the best of luck in your upcoming appointment.

From the sounds of things it seems like a lot of places only pay lip service to WPATH. 

Thanks for your input guys and gals. WPATH certainly seems like more of a suggestion to them..

Thanks Josie, the lady who still seems to lead the GIC here is one of the people who were also in charge when Norway did indeed classify transgenders as mentally ill, so perhaps there is some old thinking lingering in the clinic due to her..

Kylo, does your friend go to the GIC? I have to say I have no bad experiences with any other part of the Norwegian healthcare service, this is the only place I've had such trouble and felt so unfairly and unkindly treated.

Just had a long good talk with my dad and we made a plan of sorts.. Making the list of my expectations and wishes for the near future of my transitioning that I will email to the clinic so they have time to prepare some information for me (if they can be bothered!), and my dads coming with to offer some support and be the stern one should I retreat within myself a bit. He also put into my mind the idea that if I cant get my surgery funded in a reasonable time, taking a loan is always an option.. I dont have any real debt currently and am employed full time, so I know I can afford taking it on without much trouble.. Whats a bit of debt to such an important change..

Will see how it goes next Monday and take it from there, fingers crossed that its up and away for me. Absolutely done keeping my life in a holding pattern! Thank you all, you are such awesome people <3.

Good luck Floof! I hope everything will run smoothly from now on... In Belgium we also have only one Gender Clinic, at the University Hospital of Ghent, but our territory is much smaller and for me it's just a 40 minute ride. Anyways, try to look at all this with a smile, even though it's not always easy. I guess the long winter nights over there don't help much with the stamina, but then you'll have the long summer days! Just like in life! 😊

Hugs, Sarah

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

Sending them your expectations and questions in advance sounds like a very good idea, also it's great that you have your dad's support. Will he be able to attend the meeting with you or will have to wait outside? I'm not sure about the laws there but I think recording the session without their consent would be illegal.

I really don't feel that the bad treatment you received from them is justified, especially after such a long travel and being very angry with them would be totally justified. Maybe you could use that anger to gather strength to stand up for yourself.
You are just a girl with a damaged(by testosterone) voice, is it ethical to reject treatment of your genitals based on your voice? Does the GIC have any governing authorities or somebody who can overrule them? Where can you turn to if they treat you badly or if you want to protest to their decision, can you contact someone like an ombudsman or someone from the Ministry of Health and Care Services?

If all else fails doing the surgery outside of Norway is not a bad option at all, there are a lot of skilled surgeons around the world. And while I don't know your personal financial situation, from what I know about wages in Norway, you are in a good position to save the money needed for the surgery in a relatively short time even if you don't want to get a loan.

Wishing you strength and luck for your meeting with the women of steel

Hi Floof
   I cannot add any more good advice to those you've already heard from. I do wish you the best and hope the two ol' biddies understand just how import and how ready you are for this. Being forearmed with information and written accomplishments you have already achieved could be just the aide you need. Be firm, let them know exactly why you are ready to move forward. Point out the WPATH milestones you have done. Be confident in yourself.
   My hopes are on your side.

  I've been to Oslo and I think it was a very beautiful place as is Norway in general. Loved the mountains as we sailed up the fjords to get there. I could see the ski jump use in the winter olympics? up on the hill and even saw a viking ship on display if I remember right. (It's been a very long time cica 1973?)

  Hugs,
   Jeanette

Quote from: Floof on February 27, 2017, 12:02:45 PM
Kylo, does your friend go to the GIC? I have to say I have no bad experiences with any other part of the Norwegian healthcare service, this is the only place I've had such trouble and felt so unfairly and unkindly treated.

No, but she deals with mental health care pretty much permanently, she also had a transgender gf at one point who I guess must have been in contact with these people if they're the only GIC overseeing everything. I admit, I never talked to her directly about her gf's experience of being transgender in Norway. I just had the impression from her that the care was good in general and she was always proud of her country's health service for psych care which seemed to put ours in the UK to shame. It's sad to hear this GIC has been so awful to you.

Your dad going with you should help a bit.

Thanks Sarah, so very much looking forward to those summer days now..

Lynne, I think my dad will be allowed to go in with me. If I feel like I'm not being heard I will certainly insist on it. What you said about my voice being 'damaged by testosterone' though, I really like that its so great.. Absolutely filing it away for later use, for example if they bring into question my less than exeptional progress. Thanks <3

Jeanette! Thanks hun, I'll do by best to armor up and be strong even though I'm not . Very much sounding like the Oslo I know yea, not much has changed -well, a population increase I'm sure- since you were there. If you ever decide to go again I would strongly recommend one of the boat/cruise trips along the western and northern coastline. Some absolutely stunning scenery, friendly people and some oportunities to visit amazing resturants. And be sure to let me know when you hit Bergen!

Thanks Kylo, yea the mental health care has been absolutely fine as far as I've experienced. The only complaints I -and as I keep reading about this, a LOT of other people- have during their transitions is the unkind and at times cruel treatment at the GIC.. Some I'm sure get lucky and avoid the harsh difficult ones though, I remember one of my appointments there was with a woman I havent seen before or since and she was very supportive and understanding..

Thanks everyone, I really love you so so much.. Closing to 2:30am, I got work in less than 5 hours. Hope I can finally get some sleep now, tonights previous atempt was a total failure! <3

I am sorry this is happening to you, Floof. I hope you feel better soon.

Good luck tomorrow Floof!

  Hey Floof,

  I just wanted to say Good Luck!!  Stand up for yourself, stick to your guns and get what you need tomorrow.

  Let us know how it turns out.

Hugs and prayers to you girl.

    Jeanette