I fear the idea of hormones and have had rescheduled my hormone appointment for the 3rd time to give myself more time to think about it. I just can't get used to the fact that the changes will be permanent. I know people can detransition but there are changes that will not go away. I'm thinking that when I can afford to do so I might just get top surgery instead. I wonder if I can get top surgery without changing my legal gender to male and still live as a woman? I guess I'm officially non binary now.

Maybe you just need more time.

I needed a couple years at least thinking about it to be sure.

Ive seen at least some people get top surgery first. Theres nothing against doing that and I dont believe there is a requirement to be on HRT. It'll probably make it easier to decide if you want to transition actually because you get the changes you want first and dont have to worry about the weirder unknown changes T may bring. Have you looked into getting the funds and trying that first before doing anything

That's what I plan to do. I'm not sure if I want to start hormones either but I know I want top surgery. I'm comfortable living life now so when I get the surgery I don't want it to drastically change until I know more about what I want to do

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You can definitely have surgery without T and without changing any of your documentation, as long as you have a referral from a mental health provider that says it is the right step for you at this time. I know for sure that my surgeon has done surgery on several guys who had no inclination to go on T. And I know many surgeons have relaxed their criteria over the years to be more inclusive towards non-binary folks. Being on T is no longer a requirement in the WPATH SOC which most surgeons go by.

With transition and trying to decide what was and what wasn't right for me, I tried to think of everything in terms of the end game. Does it make me uncomfortable to be reliant on medication for the rest of my life? Yes. Does it make me uncomfortable to have to stick a needle in my leg once a week? Yes. Was I uncomfortable for the first few weeks post top surgery? Yes. Do I think I'll be uncomfortable and perhaps a little regretful of bottom surgery because of all the pain and expense? I expect to, for a little while.

But will the end result bring about greater peace of mind and overall comfort than the sum of these uncomfortable moments throughout the course of a lifetime? For me, I think so. For some people, the answer is a little hazier, or perhaps even a "no" depending on their situation. I can only speak to where I'm at, but that was my thought process going into a medical transition.

Top surgery can be done first. Living proof of that.

Quote from: Alexthecat on February 28, 2017, 09:36:35 PM
Top surgery can be done first. Living proof of that.

^ Same. I -did- intend to go on HRT afterwards, but I wasn't on hormones prior to my surgery. It wasn't a requirement and my surgeon said she frequently performed surgeries on pre-T guys.

If you have huge misgivings about HRT, then perhaps it's just not right for you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that: there is a narrative that we're all supposed to be desperate for HRT, and desperate for top surgery, and desperate for a hysterectomy. But why should any of that be true? Why should any of us care about what everyone else appears to want? Transition is very much a personal thing, and it's all about getting to where you need to be. So you do you.

If you're sure about top surgery, then that's what you should focus on. If you're not sure about HRT, then don't go for it... at least, not right now. You'd only regret it if you jumped into it when you weren't sure whether it'd be right for you. After all, HRT will still be available if you feel differently in the future. There's no rush.

I agree very much with what FTMDiaries said.

Also, as others said you don't need to be on T to get top surgery. I don't know what country your in, but here in Canada I did not even need to express an intent to be on T in order to get top surgery. I also didn't need to legally change my gender. The only thing I had legally changed was my name. And again depending what country you're in you might not even need a medical referral to get top surgery either (I did not need any letters or documentation from anyone to get my surgery. All I needed to do was get a physical/blood work from my family physician to make sure there were no underlying health problems that would cause an issue during major surgery). So if you want to get top surgery you don't need to worry necessarily anymore about all that.

Also, whether you want to live as a woman is up to you, but just to be clear just because you aren't on T or have a legal gender change doesn't mean you can't live as male. I have had top surgery, but I'm not presently on T and have not had a legal gender change but have been living as male for 6-7 years probably now. Are there still times when I don't pass? Yup. Does that suck when it happens? Yup. But I have still been able to find a way to live in such a way that my partner, my co-workers, peers, friends etc. consider me a guy, use male pronouns etc. All that to say that just because you don't want to be on T doesn't necessarily mean you can't live as a guy. Of course, if you do feel non-binary that's also totally cool, but as long as you don't simply think that by default not wanting to be on T or not feeling certain about T means you're non-binary. Just do what you feel is you regardless of how you feel about T.

Quote from: Berserk on March 02, 2017, 05:27:41 PM
I agree very much with what FTMDiaries said.

Also, as others said you don't need to be on T to get top surgery. I don't know what country your in, but here in Canada I did not even need to express an intent to be on T in order to get top surgery. I also didn't need to legally change my gender. The only thing I had legally changed was my name. And again depending what country you're in you might not even need a medical referral to get top surgery either (I did not need any letters or documentation from anyone to get my surgery. All I needed to do was get a physical/blood work from my family physician to make sure there were no underlying health problems that would cause an issue during major surgery). So if you want to get top surgery you don't need to worry necessarily anymore about all that.

Also, whether you want to live as a woman is up to you, but just to be clear just because you aren't on T or have a legal gender change doesn't mean you can't live as male. I have had top surgery, but I'm not presently on T and have not had a legal gender change but have been living as male for 6-7 years probably now. Are there still times when I don't pass? Yup. Does that suck when it happens? Yup. But I have still been able to find a way to live in such a way that my partner, my co-workers, peers, friends etc. consider me a guy, use male pronouns etc. All that to say that just because you don't want to be on T doesn't necessarily mean you can't live as a guy. Of course, if you do feel non-binary that's also totally cool, but as long as you don't simply think that by default not wanting to be on T or not feeling certain about T means you're non-binary. Just do what you feel is you regardless of how you feel about T.

I definitely won't pass as a male until I'm on hormones. I want to pass as a man, but am afraid of the permanency of the hormones. It a couple of years I may be over that fear.

Quote from: KarlMars on March 03, 2017, 04:53:28 AM
It a couple of years I may be over that fear.

There's your answer then. Wait a bit longer, then take hormones if/when you're ready.

FWIW, I couldn't possibly pass as male without the hormones, which is why I was so keen to take them. Nobody mistakes me for a female now.

Quote from: KarlMars on March 03, 2017, 04:53:28 AM
I definitely won't pass as a male until I'm on hormones. I want to pass as a man, but am afraid of the permanency of the hormones. It a couple of years I may be over that fear.

So I'm curious, not meaning to be critical. But if you want to pass as a man, why are you afraid of the permanency of hormones? Are you afraid of the permanence of it in general, or are you afraid of the impermanence of your own situation/condition/feelings/etc.?

Quote from: KarlMars on March 03, 2017, 04:53:28 AM
I definitely won't pass as a male until I'm on hormones. I want to pass as a man, but am afraid of the permanency of the hormones. It a couple of years I may be over that fear.

If you want to be seen by others as a man, then using the term "non-binary" to describe yourself is probably incorrect in the context you've described. In that case I'm not really sure what the purpose of saying you're officially non-binary is? Maybe why you're afraid of the permanence of hormones is the place for you to start then, when it comes to figuring yourself out.

Are you afraid that you won't always identify as a man? Or are you afraid that you won't always want the changes that T will bring (which is different than identifying as a man)?

Maybe explore which changes you do want. Are there particular physical changes you really want? Are there particular physical changes that you would not want? Are you afraid about what these changes would mean for your relationships with certain people?