Im a cis guy, dating a mtf.  shes by no means early in the transition(she began transitioning pre teen).  none of that even matters to me, who she is is amazing and everything i could ever want.  I mentioned it as background info for you, the reader.

We get a long great, ive never felt so happy with someone.  Until the last, idk 2 months.  (we have been together over a year.)

so here it is...No one seems to know how or why things are going on.  i try and talk with her she just says "you will never own me, never control me, no man will ever have that power again"  Then she blames me saying i am insecure. 

Situation is this, We have been seeing each other for over a year.  almost zero physical contact of any kind.  I might be able to steal a kiss a week.  hand holding last seconds before she jumps.  Hugs are regular, yet she turns away so i cant even try and kiss her.   She does say I love you, she says she cares, and I believe her.  Her past was no picnic.  Rife with abuse and hatred.    Then here I come, chivalrous, loving and open. 

we do a lot together, grocery shopping, hanging out watching movies, going out.  I take her out to nice dinners, and plays at the theater.  I Bought her a diamond for christmas, she said yes(promise ring) I wanted to show her i wanted her and no other.  I am older than her by about 10 years.  She isn't bothered by this. 

Important things of note: she went off hormones, for almost 4 months.  SHe just started again, and now will never be off them again.  She occasionally sees "sugar daddies" which i know she is NOT having sex with.  Guys pay her to go out to dinner etc...(because she is very famous, and no i will not give details on her) she does this because until about 2 months ago employers rejected her because she is transgender and this is how she paid her bills.  I Understand it, i know she has to do what she has to to pay her bills.  It does hurt that these guys might be getting more attention than I do, and I am supposed to be the main guy in her life.  She also wants to move out, which to me is a big sign of the relationship being over.  why would someone want to move out after living together for almost 8 months?

is her lack of physical intimacy related to her past, guilt over the sugar daddy thing? or something else?  Im asking because i want to rule out what i can to figure out what might be off.  SO i can help her. 

I know she loves me, yet she constantly is pushing me away emotionally.  I'm getting close to the end of my rope.  I'm so very close to calling it quits.  I really don't want to, I love her...I want this to work.  We do not fight, beyond a few words in which case I walk away, or just get quiet.  No argument is worth losing her, and knowing how bad her past was i dont want her having a panic attack. 

she says im her "best friend" but im not in the friend zone, she just wants me to be there for her.  Yet she loves me and wants to only be with me(we had a long discussion on this and she and i are committed to each other, just not official)

so lost, someone help...thanks in advance.

Welcome to Susan's Place. Unfortunately I can give you little more than guess work. The transition shouldn't be the cause because far to many of us have transitioned without issues like this. I would suspect that she was abused or had relation issues some time in the past and it has caused her to fear close relationships with others. One of the reason I suggest others start treatment with a therapist is to deal with the many issues from the past that we are still dealing with.

If she is unwilling to seek or discuss this in therapy there will be little you can do other than hope she can get past her issues herself. You might see if you can coax the answer out of her but attempting that could backfire.

We issue to all new members the following links so you will best be able to use the web site.

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	News posting & quoting guidelines	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

she is in counseling, and i know for a fact she has been severely abused.  SHe is open and very honest about this.
I know that will cause barriers, and we work within them at her pace.  but the way she describes past relationships it seems there's more going on that what she is saying. 

thank you for the welcome im not new though i dont post much.  Just when i need help or see someone else in a situation ive been in before.

Your right about the welcome. I saw that you hadn't been flagged as an SO and for got to look at the post count because I was tied up with other things off site. That's what I get for attempting to do three things at once. Guess I have to cut it back to two things at once.

As for her, about all you will be able to do is support her by being there. If the two of you move closer together, it should be at a pace that she is comfortable with. Moving to fast will only drive you apart. The question will be if you can remain together long enough for her to deal with her issues.

If you are at a loss and have tried everything else... Maybe be as upfront as possible.. If it's hard to have a conversation, write it down. Maybe just copy and paste the above what you have written here or something similar and send it to her?
Everyone behaves differently for different reasons.. Only the person themselves can really tell you how they are feeling.. So maybe a letter asking all of those questions and saying how you feel is best.. It's written down and they have time to read and process and form a reply.

This is the way I work best anyway. I write down my thoughts to process and sometimes give that to my partner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If she has been abused, I would suggest treading very carefully.  Abused people spend much or all of their time feeling unsafe and hypervigilant and can be "triggered" into a fight-or-flight-or-shutdown reaction by things that remind them of their abuse (cf. flashbacks.)

If she's able to talk about it (and comfortable doing so), I would suggest asking her what things you should avoid doing to avoid triggering her and what things you can do to make her feel safe.  Her avoidance of physical intimacy (by which I assume you don't mean specifically sex) suggests sexual abuse; if that's an issue, then it would probably be best if you explain to her that you would be interested (e.g., kisses, hugs) but will leave it to her to initiate them when she's ready.  And if she's never ready, then that's okay, too.

BTW, she may not remember the details of her abuse or may not be able to talk about them, so also look for non-verbal cues that she's being triggered or that what you're doing is making her uncomfortable.  Also notice if she seems to be "checking out."


BTW, I'll make my usual recommendation: The Body Keeps the Score, by Dr. Bessel van der Kolk.  It's an excellent, low-jargon survey of what is known about trauma, especially childhood trauma, with lots of individual stories.  If you read it and understand what he's talking about, you'll get a lot of insight as to what makes your GF act the way she does.

P.S.: She might minimize the abuse she suffered; it's a pretty common reaction, so take it with a few grains of salt.

   I have seen my son have relationships where he essentially tried to rescue someone who has a long history of issues. In his case he was better off movin on. Only you can tell. It makes a big difference if your partner is open and willing to work on issues honestly. I would be skeptical if she is secretive or pushing you away. She can love you without being in love with you. Is that what her actions are telling you? It doesn't seem to me that her being trans is even an important factor since it doesn't seem to matter to you. If a relationship is not meant to be it would be wonderful if you could be there as a friend. This is only my impression. Good luck to you.
Monica

Quote from: Asche on March 08, 2017, 07:19:21 PM
If she has been abused, I would suggest treading very carefully.  Abused people spend much or all of their time feeling unsafe and hypervigilant and can be "triggered" into a fight-or-flight-or-shutdown reaction by things that remind them of their abuse (cf. flashbacks.)

If she's able to talk about it (and comfortable doing so), I would suggest asking her what things you should avoid doing to avoid triggering her and what things you can do to make her feel safe.  Her avoidance of physical intimacy (by which I assume you don't mean specifically sex) suggests sexual abuse; if that's an issue, then it would probably be best if you explain to her that you would be interested (e.g., kisses, hugs) but will leave it to her to initiate them when she's ready.  And if she's never ready, then that's okay, too.

BTW, she may not remember the details of her abuse or may not be able to talk about them, so also look for non-verbal cues that she's being triggered or that what you're doing is making her uncomfortable.  Also notice if she seems to be "checking out."


BTW, I'll make my usual recommendation: The Body Keeps the Score, by Dr. Bessel van der Kolk.  It's an excellent, low-jargon survey of what is known about trauma, especially childhood trauma, with lots of individual stories.  If you read it and understand what he's talking about, you'll get a lot of insight as to what makes your GF act the way she does.

P.S.: She might minimize the abuse she suffered; it's a pretty common reaction, so take it with a few grains of salt.

Honestly, she has been mentally, sexualy etc...abused.  from what she has discussed.  Many times she has broken down and said "you are an amazing guy, why cant i open up and love you." followed by tears.  my concerns of physical intimacy reach beyond sex.  Hand holding, kissing, cuddling all are rare and short lived when they do happen.  I'm basically looking at her like a cat. If she comes to me, i will reciprocate, and occasionally go to her to show her my touch does not hurt.  My touch does not come with requirements.  The other night, i was rubbing her back.  gently and for muscle relaxation(alternating)  I could tell she was becoming turned on.  Seconds after she jumped out of bed and said good night.  I said good night, hugged her and went to bed. (we live in the same house though separate apartments)
     Its not that she minimizes the abuse, she talks about it to me.  as if she uses it as a crutch or an excuse as to why she wont open up.  I have been consistent in not being pushy about sex.  I try and kiss her, hug her and show openness.  Kind of testing the waters to see if she will open up emotionally or physically. 

i want to be clear, its not about the sex.  That will happen naturally on its own if it is meant to.  I am interested in intimacy, honesty, trust and openness.   She tells me she just wants a friend to be there for her, then she pushes me away and later opens up.  Its a roller coaster ive never dealt with.  I love her, she has touched my soul. 

OMG Another one I let slip through the cracks.

  Hi    SIngularity,

   I'm Jeanette self appointed unofficial greeter for Susan's place. I'm 64 MtF and on HRT since Dec.

  I am sorry I have been remiss in my duties and didn't welcome you until now. (note crippling remorse)  LOL Really though I want to welcome you to Susan's Place.  Come on in, you don't need to remove your shoes (though Devlyn appreciates the wiping of them on the welcome mat because she has to do the sweeping) Sit yourself down and grab a drink while you read your responses from the great ladies here. They will do all they can to help you understand what it is you need to know. (no, no don't expect me to be of much help, I'm just the unofficial greeter remember?)

   We need SOs like you to remind us what it is like from the other side.  Many of our behaviors hurt those we love and don't you think for a moment that we are not aware of it. That is one of our big issues we deal with as we are finding ourselves. (picture Gollum... We HATES IT). I hope the responses you receive here help you understand what may be happening with your SO.  I am glad to see you here asking for help.

  Hugs,
    Jeanette

Jeanette,
   thank you for your kind words.  That's why i am here.  to find out if its the lack of hormones, or something only her counselor can help with.  Sadly I feel as if this is falling apart. I want so badly to help and all i get is pushed away. 
You would think a woman would want to come home to a man who is willing to cook her dinner, rub her feet and tell her how beautiful she is.  SHe reacts as if i offered her crack.  I dont know how to help her and its tearing me apart.

Sometimes you can try to hard. She will need to meet you half way and therapy is going to be a big part of it. Don't take it personally because there isn't any more that you can do at this point.

@Singularity, it definitely sounds like this is coming from past abusive experiences. But you also sound (and this isn't a criticism of you, just trying to get to my point) knight-in-shining-armourish, and as much as you may make her feel loved by doing everything you can for her and to make her feel supported, it may not be what she actually needs. Just having seen friends irl take on the "knight in shining armour" role or be on the reverse end of it, often its not necessarily what you can do for the person but what the person needs to do for themselves. Sometimes there's only so much you can do before the relationship starts taking its toll on you, especially if the other person isn't in a place to be in a healthy relationship.

You mentioned that she's seeing a counselor and that's definitely a good thing. I'm wondering if seeing her counselor together as a couple might be something to consider? It could be that before the two of you can be involved in a healthy relationship she might need to work through some things on her own, and you may eventually have to hear some things you may not want to hear from her. At the same time, both of you going to a counseling session (or more) together to talk more specifically about your relationship and how she feels about it might be more productive than trying to coax it out of her on your own. Maybe ask her if she would feel up to that and what her counselor thinks?

I meant to reply to this topic a few days ago. I'm not sure if you're checking back here still but I think I might have some information for you that might help.

To preface my advice, I'm going to point out that I have several family members who are licensed psychologists and sociologists mostly specializing in victims of some sort of childhood abuse, yet I myself have no degree in this area. I have also known and spoke with a few people who were sexually abused as children about their lives and pasts. So take my advice for what you will.

Long story short, I've seen all of these signs, symptoms, and etc. before. These things, according to my personal experience, are very much the standard indicators of childhood sexual abuse. Pretty much everything you've mentioned. I don't think hormones or ->-bleeped-<- has anything to do with your partner's reactions that you've described here.

What worries me most here is that your SO is in relationships with what you call "sugar daddies". These are very unhealthy relationships for anyone to have but most of all they are extremely unhealthy for someone who has suffered sexual abuse. These relationships are likely preventing her from ever being able to hold a real relationship and also preventing her from being able to tackle her deep set issues with her past abuse. They are basically a blockade for her. These relationships are very common with victims of childhood abuse and a huge factor in their psychological growth. They must eliminate them to grow.

The problem is if you insist that she eliminate these relationships from her life by any amount of force or pressure she will possibly react very badly to it. In order to do this you need to find her better alternatives to pay her bills and make it seem as though it is entirely her choice to stop. I think this is perhaps the only way for her to move on and to realize a real relationship with someone. To learn to actually trust someone again.
This may be something you can speak with her psychologist about, but obviously due to patient confidentiality it would have to be something you bring up and approached very carefully. And her permission might be required, which would be incredibly tricky in such a situation.

Sadly, I'm not going to tell you this is ever going to be easy for you. Being with a victim of sexual abuse is always going to be a roller coaster ride. This is a permanent issue she will never entirely overcome. There may be months or even years when she pushes you away again even if she overcomes this within the foreseeable future. Anything that might be a trigger for her could result in these episodes. It will be important to eventually understand what her triggers are and how to stay away from them.
The only way relationships like this ever last is if you have an incredible amount of patience and love for her and you endure the difficulties with massive amounts of maturity. It requires such a strong person to do this and you need to seriously consider if you're actually ready for that kind of life. But if nothing else you can at least be there for her now when perhaps she most needs it...

And again understand I have only personal experience with this matter and I'm not a professional. Take what I say with a few grains of salt.

Good luck. I truly hope the best for both of you.