Hi,

My 13-year-old daughter "B" and I have been estranged since October of 2016.  She's been living with her mother, (my ex-wife) since then, and we have had almost no communication (at her request).  Prior to that, she (along with her older brothers, now 15 and 17) had been splitting time equally between the two of us since our separation/divorce in July 2015.

About a month ago, she wrote me an email saying that after thinking and research, he prefers to be Male, and would like to be addressed as "R".  This email came after 6 weeks or so of hospitalization (in- and out-patient) for mental health-related issues (he's still in an outpatient day program).

Due to our estrangement, my involvement in her care during that time was, unfortunately, minimal, although I did communicate with her clinicians and other providers as much as possible.  So I wasn't completely out of the loop.  (switching to male gender for the rest of this, as everything from here on occurs after his announcement)

Regardless, his announcement was extremely surprising, as there has never been any indication that he felt uncomfortable with his birth gender, or anything like that.  His clinician expressed the same surprise to me, and said that R's case (situation?  transition?) feels different to her than with other children she has worked with.  And although I don't communicate with R's mother except when absolutely necessary, it sounds from what the clinician has told me that she also shares my surprise.

Regardless of how it looks to those of us on the outside, this is how my son feels, and I want to support him in his new identity.  The catch, of course, is that we are estranged, to the point where he does not want me in his life at all - no visits, no communication, nothing.

So on one hand, supporting him is easy: I just have to keep away.  I've been doing that since October, and I'll keep doing it.  I hate it, it's terrible, it's unbelievably hard, but it's what he has needed, and so I've done it.  (thank goodness for my therapist and a support group I have).

But on the other hand, it's not that easy.  I've known "R" all of his life as my daughter "B".  I have a lot of processing to do.  I have a lot to unlearn/relearn.  I have a lot of questions, concerns, and things I want to know, that I simply can't do anything with, because he doesn't want me in his life.  Yes, my therapist and support group can help to some degree, but that will mostly be around handling my feelings, not around actually being the parent of a transgender child, and an estranged parent at that.

What I'd like is to connect with other parents in my situation.  I know about PFLAG, and am working on connecting there.  But even more helpful would be to find another parent in a situation similar to mine - someone who was already estranged when their child came out (is that term used, as it is when a child comes out as gay/lesbian?) as transgender.

Is there anyone else out there?  Does anyone have any resources they can point me at?

Welcome to the site.

Wow, you have had a tough path lately. I am so sorry. I admire your effort to learn more. We have a number of members who are parents here. I don't know how many or details but hope they can reach out to you.

I can say that I only came to my full realization, after a near mental break. This was about 2 years ago when I was 50 after a lifetime of clues I should have read. It was a shock to my wife. I am not out to my whole family yet but expect it to be a surprise. Only reason I am telling you this is because we become good at hiding this sort of thing, sometimes to ourselves to.

Since he sent an email to you, could you return one. Perhaps explaining your support of his conclusions. Additionally, maybe you can let him know he is welcome in your life whenever he wants. You might have already done this and I am not trying to tell you you what to do. Just some ideas.

I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment:

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	News posting & quoting guidelines	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Joanna

Welcome to Susan's Place. People have different ways of self discovery. Some children know as early as 3 years old. Others like me are sudden at a latter age. For me it was 13 years old but we have many middle age and older adults on the site who are just starting to explore their feelings. It's possible for the mind to effectively suppresses feelings for a long time before they become known. The problem is instead of feeling dysphoric, people deal with depression or other mental issues as the result of the feelings being suppressed. This is very likely what happened with your child and the reason why it was discovered while being treated for another condition.

Unfortunately we don't have a large number of SO members with children but there are a few. Possibly one will drop by in a few days and check your post so don't forget about us. On the other hand, you are free to engage in discussion with the rest of us and we will be happy to tell you about our lives.

Quote from: fsr1967 on March 21, 2017, 01:39:34 PM
So on one hand, supporting him is easy: I just have to keep away.  I've been doing that since October, and I'll keep doing it.  I hate it, it's terrible, it's unbelievably hard, but it's what he has needed, and so I've done it.  (thank goodness for my therapist and a support group I have).

But on the other hand, it's not that easy.  I've known "R" all of his life as my daughter "B".  I have a lot of processing to do.  I have a lot to unlearn/relearn.  I have a lot of questions, concerns, and things I want to know, that I simply can't do anything with, because he doesn't want me in his life.  Yes, my therapist and support group can help to some degree, but that will mostly be around handling my feelings, not around actually being the parent of a transgender child, and an estranged parent at that.

What I'd like is to connect with other parents in my situation.  I know about PFLAG, and am working on connecting there.  But even more helpful would be to find another parent in a situation similar to mine - someone who was already estranged when their child came out (is that term used, as it is when a child comes out as gay/lesbian?) as transgender.

Is there anyone else out there?  Does anyone have any resources they can point me at?

Hey, understandably there are things as you said that you'd like to be able to ask your son, concerns you have, question etc. Is contact with your son something that is completely out of the question for his or your own good? Did he mention anything in his email about not wanting you to respond to his email? I don't know your situation so definitely use your own judgement as far as whether or not it would be a positive or harmful thing for your son to respond to the email, but if the situation is one where a future relationship is one that's healthy and possible then I would suggest maybe at first responding to it in a way that emphasises the fact that you want to support him in any way you can.

As far as finding other parents who were specifically estranged from their children when their children came out, maybe finding a support group specifically for parents of trans children might be your best bet, even if there aren't folks there who are in your exact situation. Depending on where you live (particularly if you are living in a more urban area) there are definitely more options available out there than just PFLAG.

In the meantime, are there are questions/concerns you have about your son's recent coming out that you'd like to put past us? There's a pretty wide array of experiences that people on this forum have had, so it's very possible that you might be able to find answers here to some of those questions. And in some cases, since your son has just come out, folks here might be able to provide more specific answers than he is able to (or perhaps even than his mental health professionals, again depending on the institution he's dealing with and how trans-inclusive they are).

Cheers and welcome to the forum.

@Joanna50

Thanks for posting the rules and regs, and for your welcome, empathy, and background.

Thanks also for your suggestion of sending R an email.  I had already done that as soon as I got his email, pretty much as you described, and it's nice to hear that my instincts steered me in the right direction.


@Dena

Thank you as well for your thoughts.  I am intimately familiar with suppressing feelings of various kinds for a long time, so what you are saying makes a lot of sense to me.  (In my case, this manifested in long-term depression, anxiety, and other problems that ultimately contributed to my divorce)

The condition R was being treated for could be, in part, directly traced to the divorce and fallout from it (briefly: his mother vilified me in some very serious, and false, ways, leading R to be very afraid of me).  Focusing on that, there wasn't anything that would really explain a sudden realization of a gender identity issue (except, perhaps, some sort of, I don't know, call it a "defensive" change - "it would be safer to be male".  Is that something that occurs?  I hope that's not an offensive question.  If it is, I'm sorry - I am looking for information, not trying to harm or trigger anyone)

As I looked at the other pieces of R's condition, the ones that predated the divorce, everything *seemed* to have known explanations from the past or "he's always been that way", so again, it didn't seem to tie in.

All of this added up to extreme confusion and frustration on my part at not being able to understand, or even communicate to try to understand.  I can love and support without understanding, but doing so from a distance leaves me feeling trapped and stuck in a black box.

But what you say about long-suppressed feelings sort of building up and then showing up suddenly is a huge help, especially as I look at my own history.  Maybe that's what happened here, and maybe it isn't.  But it's a model I can grasp, a possibility that lets some light into the box.

So thank you!

@Berserk

My son has made it very clear that he doesn't want any communication from me.  As I noted to Joanna, I did send a response to his email, but that's all there will be until he decides otherwise.

His therapist has said that she'd like to work on his relationship with me, but there are higher priorities, such as his new gender identity and his transition from a full-time outpatient program back to school.  I agree with the therapist that these are more important, because until he's in a good, healthy place, he won't be in a good place to start thinking about his relationship with me.

Thanks for the idea of finding a support group for parents of trans children.  Do you know of specific groups to look for?  I'm in a suburb of Boston, so I'm sure there's stuff out there.

I do have one connection I'm going to explore - I've recently become very close with someone who has a friend whose son is also FTM.  I'm nervous about meeting this person, because it means letting another person into at least some of the details of my life (as opposed to a group, where things can be somewhat anonymous and therefore easier).  But I'm going to take the plunge, because it's worth it.

As for specific questions/concerns, I don't have anything at the moment - it's all swirling around in my head.  I need to process what Dena said and see whether it settles things down enough for me to sit and think about.

No, that's not right - I do have one question.  My pshrink suggested reading a book written for parents of trans children.  Can you suggest a good one?

Thanks!

@ all three of you

One more big "thank you" to you.  It's HUGE to be able to come here, ask my ignorant questions, and get not only some answers, but support.

Quote from: fsr1967 on March 30, 2017, 07:26:42 PM
The condition R was being treated for could be, in part, directly traced to the divorce and fallout from it (briefly: his mother vilified me in some very serious, and false, ways, leading R to be very afraid of me).  Focusing on that, there wasn't anything that would really explain a sudden realization of a gender identity issue (except, perhaps, some sort of, I don't know, call it a "defensive" change - "it would be safer to be male".  Is that something that occurs?  I hope that's not an offensive question.  If it is, I'm sorry - I am looking for information, not trying to harm or trigger anyone)

What you are discussing is a very real danger and it's one of the things a therapist should watch out for. It's not real common as the de transition rate is something like 2-3% for all causes and there are many reason why people decide not to pursue the transition to completion. There is something called the informed consent model where you take full responsibility for any decisions you make. Many people can safely use it and do because it involves minimal therapy thus saving money for other medical treatment.

Some need the intensive therapy to deal with issues that could result in the transition becoming a mistake. Personally, my third therapist was worth every cent I paid and I am pretty sure my transition wouldn't have turned out as well without a resource like that.

There is a thread running here which describes what you are talking about. There is a very small number of other members who have detransitioned on the site. For many of them it's the result of employment issues and not because they feel they made a mistake with their gender identity.

As for the Significant Other badge your Profile is wearing, it gives you some immunity on the site. The members are aware that you many have no knowledge of what you are asking so any mistakes you should make should be tolerated. The moderators staff is also on the lookout because Significant Others come here needing special support and may be emotionally upset. Conflicts are quickly addressed and when possible, the SO is given the benefit of the doubt.

Quote from: Dena on March 30, 2017, 07:55:25 PM
What you are discussing is a very real danger and it's one of the things a therapist should watch out for. It's not real common as the de transition rate is something like 2-3% for all causes and there are many reason why people decide not to pursue the transition to completion. There is something called the informed consent model where you take full responsibility for any decisions you make. Many people can safely use it and do because it involves minimal therapy thus saving money for other medical treatment.

Some need the intensive therapy to deal with issues that could result in the transition becoming a mistake. Personally, my third therapist was worth every cent I paid and I am pretty sure my transition wouldn't have turned out as well without a resource like that.

There is a thread running here which describes what you are talking about. There is a very small number of other members who have detransitioned on the site. For many of them it's the result of employment issues and not because they feel they made a mistake with their gender identity.

That's very helpful - I'm going to read through that thread, and look for others like it.

Thanks!

Quote from: Dena on March 30, 2017, 07:55:25 PM
As for the Significant Other badge your Profile is wearing, it gives you some immunity on the site. The members are aware that you many have no knowledge of what you are asking so any mistakes you should make should be tolerated. The moderators staff is also on the lookout because Significant Others come here needing special support and may be emotionally upset. Conflicts are quickly addressed and when possible, the SO is given the benefit of the doubt.

That's helpful, too.  I still plan on being careful and considerate, of course, and I won't hide behind the SO badge, but it's good to know that if I do mess up, people will understand that I'm trying the best I can.

Welcome to Susan's,

I'm a little late seeing this and since you don't have enough posts to private message yet, I'm going to send you my e-mail.  If you want to send me your e-mail, I'll put you in touch with my niece who has a f2m son.  I know she's a member of  some parental groups so maybe she can point you in the right direction.

I might qualify to help in this situation, or not.

1. I'm a 64 year old parent, who discovered I'm bigender, nonbinary, and partially transmale, only four years ago, leaning slightly toward the male side.

2. My 33 year old daughter recently said she also is bigender and nonbinary, but usually leans toward the female side.

3. My son has been estranged from me since I was divorced, so if he has any gender issues, I don't know about them, but he seems somewhat asexual.

4. My ex-husband came out to me last year as nonbinary female, but since he remarried a couple of years ago, he says he's moving cautiously and plans to see a VA gender therapist next week.

So, few in my close circle are cisgender binary folk.

But I am currently teaching in Thailand, where most people are mixed gender. Buddhism accepts a Third Gender, gender bending is seen as normal. and trans people simply dress and present as they please, not bothering with operations.

Hi, Raell,

It does seem like you may be able to help.  I'm at work right now, so my son and this issue is sort of pushed to the back of my head so I can get done what I need to, but I wanted to at least respond to you to let you know I appreciate your speaking up.  This evening, I'll put some thought into specific issues and questions so I can come back online tomorrow with something meaningful.

Thanks!
Rob

I do have some advice, again, which you can take or not; everyone is on a gender sliding scale. Nobody is strictly one gender or the other or even one sexual orientation or the other.

Studies show that currently 35% of Millennials self-identify as nonbinary, or transgender, but think it's no big deal. When a study was made totally anonymous, 85% of adult respondents said they had varying degrees of attraction to the same sex.

During the 1970s, men grew long hair, girls stopped shaving their legs, and people lived in communes, regularly having group sex with both genders, ignoring rigid gender and sexual orientation norms.

One study showed that all females showed equal sexual attraction to both genders, when shown photos while their dilating pupils were being measured.

That in mind, gender binary concerns are likely only shocking to YOU, not to your son.  Best to accept the new identity, call him the label he requests, and pay no further attention to it. People are people.

I now understand what I am, and why (I was conceived two months after my brother was born, so absorbed the male hormones still in my mother's womb), but it's not a big deal and I didn't make any melodramatic announcements about it.

I've always behaved more like a male than a female and was always treated as one-the boys fought over having me on their teams, my mother lined me up with my two brothers to give us the lecture about never hitting girls, etc.
I have always dressed androgynously and outdone males at most things since I was a child. Both men and women have always been attracted to me and I have never paid any attention because I am mostly asexual, without attraction to either gender.

Yet I married, had two children, and my daughter currently has a boyfriend although she also feel ambiguous about both her gender and her sexual orientation.

After living in Thailand for six years and also being around androgynous Europeans who live here also, I realize that it's US Christians who try to stuff people into two gender boxes and make a big deal about sexual orientation. Many other countries just let people be who they are, and date whom they please, and it's no big deal.
They mind their own business and let others mind theirs.

Here in Seattle we have the Ingersoll Center and on wednesdays they have their open meetings and include significant others. I have not been as often as I have wanted because of weather etc. But generally there is a group of concerned parents and wives that attend. It is group therapy which allows everyone to add their two cents.

Hi, fsr, I just wanted to say that it's great you're so supportive of your son, and willing to learn how to support him better.  So many parents judge and reject their kids when it turns out they don't fit the "ideal" child mold the parents had in their heads.  I'm in the position of having to tell my own father that I'm transgender (I was born anatomically female, but identify as male) and I'm not entirely sure how well he'll take it.  I hope he responds as well as you have. 

Also, to respond to your concern above about it being "safer" to be male--I was molested as a kid, and I've always wondered if this wasn't the cause of my gender dysphoria.  Perhaps it was.  But thirty-four years of therapy haven't eradicated it, so even if it might have been preventable somehow, it might not be changeable at this point.  It's best to do as you have done and take what's going on with your son seriously, instead of dismissing it as something that might go away.

Hi, Lemur,

Thank you for your kind thoughts and your courage in sharing your story with me.

It has never mattered for my acceptance why he feels the way he does - what's important is that it is how he feels right now.  My concern over the reason was long-term worry for my son's well-being - if it wasn't somehow "real", then he might feel distress, dysphoria, anxiety, stress, whatever, some time in the future, setting him up for more challenges.

But I have come to realize in the last week or so (and your story confirms this realization) that the long-term "if" isn't important, because it is just an "if".  The "right now" is everything.

As I've learned in my own life struggles in the last two years: if we focus on the past, we live with guilt, what-if, and depression; if we focus on the future, we live with anxiety and worry; only by focusing on now can we be at peace.

Lemur, I hope that your father accepts you as you are.  You deserve it.  In the meantime, I hope that you can focus on the present and not worry too much about the upcoming discussion, so that you can have peace until then.