Just curious because a few months ago one of my coworkers told me that a few customers told her "you can tell that's a transgender", but yet I tricked many male customers who asked me out and once I told them I was trans they weren't interested anymore. So how can some tell and others can't? Seems like if 5 people can tell then everyone should be able to tell too.

Those same people would probably mis-gender a masculine looking cis woman. They are most likely making an assumption and looking for someone else to confirm it. If some stranger said they thought I was trans I would completely deny it and see if they changed their opinion. (Probably tell them a few other things to.)

One, anyone who refers to you as "that" isn't worth the time of day.

Two, you didn't "trick" anyone. You are a woman.

Quote from: April_TO on April 05, 2017, 12:26:57 PM
1. They have been around trans people before.
2. Features, Mannerisms
3. Hunch
4. Jealousy (coz you're more better than them)

5. People have a different transdar.

A good metric I use to know whether I pass or not are children. They will stare/point at you with nofilters because they still don't know that it's not polite to stare/point at someone. The days that they don't look at me too much, I know I'm doing fine.

Quote from: Fresas con Nata on April 05, 2017, 01:28:03 PM
5. People have a different transdar.

A good metric I use to know whether I pass or not are children. They will stare/point at you with nofilters because they still don't know that it's not polite to stare/point at someone. The days that they don't look at me too much, I know I'm doing fine.

children always tell me how pretty I am and address me as she, but if I really pass no one should be able to tell.

A doctor can tell, our bodies are loaded with things women don't have. 

For every time we find out that someone knows we are trans, whether being told by the person directly or indirectly, a lot of others have noticed but just didn't say anything; that's why self acceptance is so important, because when we accept ourselves it doesn't really matter if other people know. The most important thing to me is being treated the same as any other woman, and as long as that's the case it doesn't matter so much (let's be honest it doesn't feel good when we don't pass 100% of the time) if they can tell I am trans.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on April 05, 2017, 02:39:52 PM
so if people know I'm trans why do these guys who ask me out at work reject me once I tell them?

I didn't say everyone can tell; I merely suggested that if you already know that some people know or suspect, then statistically speaking there are probably others that know or suspect, but the important thing is to accept yourself, so that it doesn't hold so much power over you.

Quote from: kittenpower on April 05, 2017, 02:51:18 PM
I didn't say everyone can tell; I merely suggested that if you already know that some people know or suspect, then statistically speaking there are probably others that know or suspect, but the important thing is to accept yourself, so that it doesn't hold so much power over you.

oh ok. I sent that in message instead, didn't realize you had already saw the post.

I have a good friend who is a CIS woman and I think very beautiful. I can not begin to tell you how many times she has been mistaken for a drag queen! People see and interpret clues differently.

Because transgender issues are in the news a lot more lately and more and more people are feeling the freedom the come out of the closet and express their true gender identities and more people are actually knowing a transgender person in real life,  that means more people are becoming aware (maybe ever more hyperaware?) of the subtle cues that signal cisgenderhood.   Older transgender women who for years "flew under the radar" are even complaining of increased scrutiny.

Angelique. I like your new picture. What have you done to transition. HRT, GRS, breast enhancement? Do you feel you have a female voice that does not slip back into male mode occasionally.  Are you short in stature or are you an Amazon Goddess like myself? You will never be unrecognizable as a man. Even prominent Transsexuals such as Gigi, Carmen,Andrejan,have visible clues if you look close enough. Are you looking to be accepted for who you are or are you pursuing the impossible. Mostly shallow people focus on looks and some folks are blessed with natural looks. What is in your heart, head and soul are what is really important. Looks are transient. You may be a fox now but what does the future hold? Be proud of who you are instead of lamenting what you are not. Nothing short of periods and childbirth are going to make us what we are not. And while I know there are CIS woman that can not have children, most I know feel incomplete like they are somehow failures. Keep your head up. You will find someone who sees the inner Angelique and loves and respects you for being you. Nothing happens over night. Give yourself a chance.

Just to offer a slightly different opinion.

All I have to go by is your photo. I don't know what your voice, mannerisms, posture, etc, etc...

You are beautiful, you know you are. You are GOING to stand out. Men and women notice a beautiful woman and give a little closer look. And as has already been stated, none of us are 100%. See what I am getting at? I am a frumpy middle aged woman, the only people that notice that I am more than a human taking up space and breathing their air are dirty old men. That's not precisely true but it's close.

Honestly, I would take the tradeoff of occasionally being clocked, to be beautiful. This fear of being clocked is something we all have to get past if we are ever going to find peace. I have struggled with it so much. Just in the last couple weeks I have finally started to let it go. A really close friend who had started transition at almost the same time as me finally got gendered correctly. Wow, the look on her face. I had taken passing for granted and had forgotten what it was like to be misgendered.

None of that makes it easier to be clocked. In fact, it might feel worse to be clocked when it rarely happens. And it's not, hate to say fair cause fair and unfair have no bearing on how we feel, but... anyways, not fair that someone who should pass easily is outed because they are pretty and people pay more attention to them.

Just trying to add perspective. Something that, my friend being gendered properly finally gave me.

I have so many people tell me they would never know or that they didn't know when they met me and everyone calls me she and maam yet I still feel I'm noticed more or get a bit more attention (mostly guys) and I really don't know if its clocking or as many have insisted to me that guys are just checking me out a lot...ive never been confronted over being trans or had any harassment and been on hrt like 3 years and had electrolysis and I know my voice is passable yet I often "feel" clocked but can never be sure....I really don't know tbh

Quote from: Annabolton on April 05, 2017, 10:17:04 PM
I have so many people tell me they would never know or that they didn't know when they met me and everyone calls me she and maam yet I still feel I'm noticed more or get a bit more attention (mostly guys) and I really don't know if its clocking or as many have insisted to me that guys are just checking me out a lot...ive never been confronted over being trans or had any harassment and been on hrt like 3 years and had electrolysis and I know my voice is passable yet I often "feel" clocked but can never be sure....I really don't know tbh

majority of guys that I notice staring at me tend to be checking me out despite me thinking they knew I was trans, but they always eventually come up to me to hit on me and then rejecting me after I tell them after a few hours of talking.


Also just to let y'all know since she brought it up, my voice is feminine. Guys have told me I sound like those rich girls.

I think it's also pheromones that causes people to think otherwise on a subconscious level.

I always dab my formula 86 before heading out...

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on April 05, 2017, 10:33:57 PM
majority of guys that I notice staring at me tend to be checking me out despite me thinking they knew I was trans, but they always eventually come up to me to hit on me and then rejecting me after I tell them after a few hours of talking.


Also just to let y'all know since she brought it up, my voice is feminine. Guys have told me I sound like those rich girls.

that makes me more optimistic about passing....though they rarely approach me...but I'm usually with my family or a guy or my bf when it happens so that could be why....have you considered that those people talking about you said that "they could tell" possibly cause someone at your job told them or a rumor about you? Maybe you guys knew the same people? Or maybe it was just an off day appearance wise...everyone has those frumpy ugly days

^^ Speak for yourself. I spend 1 hour everynight applying makeup, 45 minutes into my hair, and I wear tight "expensive" dresses with 4 inch heels. Have roses on my bed, scented with Chanel 5, and have the room full of pheromones/lavender/floral in case I have that bad night when my fire alarm goes off so when the fireman comes to rescue me, I can look my best. I even have my dialogue down to an art. You never want to get caught off guard.

Even my furry white puppy Poo-Poo wears a rhinestone chocker, and her fur gets treated with curls and highlights at least once every 2 weeks.

I never look frumpy.

Quote from: Annabolton on April 06, 2017, 12:26:56 AM
that makes me more optimistic about passing....though they rarely approach me...but I'm usually with my family or a guy or my bf when it happens so that could be why....have you considered that those people talking about you said that "they could tell" possibly cause someone at your job told them or a rumor about you? Maybe you guys knew the same people? Or maybe it was just an off day appearance wise...everyone has those frumpy ugly days

ive thought that could be it because I've had past instances where that was the case.

I've always been attracted by ambiguous facial features of cis women (don't ask why, I don't know), even well before I started my transition. Now when I look at a woman, if I find that she has some male facial features I can't help asking myself whether she might be a trans. But I'd never told her or anybody else my thoughts about her appearance.