I make a point to march out and counter hateful statements like that publicly with information and better arguments. It makes me feel safer knowing that someone is out there debunking that garbage, when that person is me.

Recently, I posted (on Facebook) a different view on something very innocent and not at all controversial and my comment was just deleted by the user without explanation.  It completely shocked me that they would completely disregard a differing view about something so petty. 

Fwiw, it was another Trans girl and she  wrote a blurb in reference to a relationship meme.  She explained that being single was a gift, especially if you're trans.  She went on to say that relationship demands sacrifice who you are and being single is healthy and having a life partner shouldn't be a priority.   My comment was purely companionate and I wrote that perhaps she just hasn't met the right person, and that having a loving and caring partner can be incredibly helpful and a powerful aide during transition.  It went on to explain about how my wife has been my rock and I couldn't have done this without her.  Perhaps she thought of this as hate because I disagreed with her opinion?  Don't know, but walking through life with blinders on can also be a mistake.  Completely disregarding others views, especially if they're not ignorant or hurtful stops us from growing and maturing.

When I came here about a year ago now. Almost every sentence started with, I.  I this, I that and thankfully no matter how many I's I racked up everyone let me vent. I now feel I have something to contribute and the I's are dwindling. You too after the research as reassurances you are not somehow a perv but a functioning human being that through no input of your own have questioned your sexuality. I was predestined for this and perhaps you were too. The more you learn the more you want to pass it on.

Quote from: theqnoumenon on April 05, 2017, 10:17:55 AM
Completely agree with most of the things written here. The Internet allows those who hate the most to express it behind a veil of anonymity, but I don't think we need to be affected by it as long as it is a minor group of people (at least in Spain) and it's not our responsibility to educate strangers.
I've always thought that (not in all cases) the best way to fight haters is just by ignoring them, they'll get tired some day.

EDIT: relating hate in the web, I found this interesting (https://www.ted.com/talks/megan_phelps_roper_i_grew_up_in_the_westboro_baptist_church_here_s_why_i_left?language=en).

The link about Westboro Baptist Church former member is well worth the time. I found the insights shared by one of its former members incredibly powerful. This talk is about 5 or more minutes and the points she makes about communicating and engaging the "other side" are great. For those who want to try and change some minds, try using this strategy, it could not only change how you view another person and how they view you, but save you some real heartache.

Thanks theqnoumenon

Liz

Quote from: ElizabethK on April 05, 2017, 07:08:01 PM
The link about Westboro Baptist Church former member is well worth the time. I found the insights shared by one of its former members incredibly powerful. This talk is about 5 or more minutes and the points she makes about communicating and engaging the "other side" are great. For those who want to try and change some minds, try using this strategy, it could not only change how you view another person and how they view you, but save you some real heartache.

Thanks theqnoumenon

Liz

How big is the westboro bapitist church down there? they seem hateful and horrid but are they that big? I know some member of that church tried to come up to Canada, not sure if it was Alberta, Saskatchewan or Ontario but they got ran out or something lol

Quote from: Kylo on April 05, 2017, 05:03:49 PM
Well the good thing is you can not visit sites filled with hate, not read the comments, and turn off the internet.

I'm wary of this idea we need to control what is being said in every place and every space to preserve our feelings, when you can just switch it off and go outside. I see people on Facebook unfriending each other over differences in politics or ideology, getting worked up and trying to block out everything they don't like. I'm not sure that's healthy either. The more "safe" some people make themselves it seems, the more they increasingly appear unable to accept different points of view, and begin to think of opinions as oppressing them and become more and more in favor of censorship.

Putting things into perspective is always good.

I see your point, when I say hate though - think along the lines of the comments in a yahoo TG bathroom article. 

Really, just think about comments in yahoo news articles in general, it is a fine display of the outright hatred people have.  There is no real discussion going on, just an echo chamber of hate, accusations, conspiracy theories and everyone feeding off one another.  The web is filled with places like these. 

Same goes for comments in youtube videos in some channels, there is no real dialogue going on, just the mindless beating of chests, and typical accusations.  The conspiracy theories can be fun, because of just how far out of whack some of these people get, but it is just not worth it.

For me, the real meat of any news article or youtube video are the comments.  It gives me a glimpse into the way people think, why they think the way they do, and I've been through it enough times to know I am not learning anything anymore, I know hate now, I am done with it, and the pain it causes me.

I would say it is far, far, far less healthy to spend hours a day reading this sort of stuff.  It is better just to blacklist it, for me anyway.  I've spent far too much of my life, trying to figure out why people think the way they do, behave the way they do, and for me, trying to argue against them is usually pointless. 

Oops that wasnt the Westboro bapist church.. That turned out to be Peter LaBarbera and his friend Bill Whatcott. Bacially this video has the two closet cases get arrested at Regina University in Regina Saskatchewan.  When Lebarabra is walked away in hang cuffs the crowd cheers for his departure away from the good people https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZrr_NyI7TAhUk1oMKHbL2DUcQFggaMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbc.ca%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fsaskatchewan%2Fu-s-anti-gay-activist-peter-labarbera-arrested-in-regina-1.2610123&usg=AFQjCNH8qBWXMcyKMg3mzBrpfRlcBTjxnw

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on April 05, 2017, 07:17:22 PM
How big is the westboro bapitist church down there? they seem hateful and horrid but are they that big? I know some member of that church tried to come up to Canada, not sure if it was Alberta, Saskatchewan or Ontario but they got ran out or something lol

The church is not the story...the link goes to one of its former members addressing the issue of how to engage people who have apposing views to yours and how a dialogue can lead to change over social media.

Liz

You're welcome, Elizabeth.
That's the point, as I said, my belief is that the best way to destroy hate is ignoring it (at least in the Internet), but if anybody has the strength to face it, it's also a nice path to do so, not by creating more hate against the haters (this will end making the things even worse, with them justifying their own behaviors in the others), but following an strategy like the one defended in the talk, trying to make them understand logically and not reflecting the hate they were expressing.


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Quote from: SailorMars1994 on April 05, 2017, 07:17:22 PM
How big is the westboro bapitist church down there? they seem hateful and horrid but are they that big? I know some member of that church tried to come up to Canada, not sure if it was Alberta, Saskatchewan or Ontario but they got ran out or something lol

I really don't think they are all that big, they are just very vocal and mobile. 

Quote from: staciM on April 05, 2017, 05:30:20 PM
  My comment was purely companionate and I wrote that perhaps she just hasn't met the right person, and that having a loving and caring partner can be incredibly helpful and a powerful aide during transition.  It went on to explain about how my wife has been my rock and I couldn't have done this without her.  Perhaps she thought of this as hate because I disagreed with her opinion? 

I can see why she may have deleted that your desire to help notwithstanding. People are not meant to be alone, we are meant to be in community together and we have a romantic/sex drive for a reason. Sometimes single people who indeed are content with that need to pep talk themselves into being ok with the bad parts of that status and focus on the good parts. Non-single people do this too. How many posts do you see about the keys to a happy relationship etc. people want to focus on the good parts and make them better. She may have just felt that your point was off setting hers. I wouldn't be too concerned.

I need to be honest, I strongly disagree that there is a lot of hate out there. There is some, to be sure, but I do not believe there is a lot.

It is important to keep in mind that people who write hateful comments are a self selecting sample. It is only the people with very strong feelings that feel compelled to spew their hatred on the internet. The vast majority of people just go about their business.

It is very easy to watch the news and think the world is falling apart, but the thing about stories on the news is that they are, by definition, unusual events. If they were common, they would not be newsworthy. Just imagine a new segment that reported on the events that mattered most in peoples lives:

"Earlier today, 4,000 people met their soulmate."
"Reports say that 14,000 people hooked up with the cutie the met at the bar last night and had amazing but slightly awkward sex."
"This just in, 350,000 people had their hearts warmed tonight when their cat did something adorable."

It is easy to get lost in the news of the world and loose sight of the things that matter most to us in our own daily lives. The numbers I listed above where just made up, but this one is real.

353,000 babies are born every day.

That is a whole lot of love right there. The world is full of love, it's why we are all still here.

Quote from: Edina on April 09, 2017, 06:15:03 AM
I need to be honest, I strongly disagree that there is a lot of hate out there. There is some, to be sure, but I do not believe there is a lot.

I agree that haters are in the minority.  However, their influence is out of proportion to their numbers.  Two or three haters can undo the work of a thousand good people.

Quote from: KathyLauren on April 09, 2017, 06:39:29 AM
I agree that haters are in the minority.  However, their influence is out of proportion to their numbers.  Two or three haters can undo the work of a thousand good people.

Hate breeds hate to be sure, but I think love and kindness are move powerful.

The world we live in is the best it has ever been and it continues to get better. Hate can't do that.
https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of-global-living-conditions-in-5-charts/?linkId=35102093

Quote from: NikkiB51 on April 06, 2017, 08:47:33 AM
I really don't think they are all that big, they are just very vocal and mobile.

Yes, that Church is very small.  It's really not much more than an extended family.  However, their views are shared by many on the Christian right. 

I used to teach adult bible classes at a conservative Anglican Church; not exactly a hotbed of fundamentalism.  One day I was  discussing Romans 1.  That's the verse that says that Homosexuality is God's judgement against idolatrous and reprobate people.  One of the men in the class told me that all homosexuals, even ones trying to be not homosexual, should be summarily executed with no exceptions.

So the views of Westboro Baptist Church are not that isolated. 

In a way though that experience was good for me.  It helped free me from the notion that a God and American Christianity had anything in common and eventually liberated me from the constant mental gymnastics of trying to reconcile myself with their book.  In hindsight it was demoralizing me over many decades with its primitive crudity and was extremely harmful to my mental well being.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Quote from: Dena on April 04, 2017, 10:17:10 PM
The funny thing about the people posting the hateful things on the web is were I to meet them one on one, they would be the one  backing down. It's easy to shoot off your mouth when you are hiding behind a monitor but in real life they tend to be pretty cowardly. It takes a good deal of courage to transition and I think almost anybody who has come out has far more courage that the people making the hateful comments.

That's true Dena in person the bullies CAN be more cowardly, but not always are they less cowardly in person. For example in 2015 in some lower-middle-class suburbs west of Birmingham, England, I was visiting a trans friend for a few days, and hateful bully bigots cis (non-trans) people in the neighborhood threw rocks at our windows several times and broke many windows over a couple of day period -- solely because we are trans. And chanted verbals insults repeatedly for hours at a time at various times in the afternoons and evenings until about 10 pm. Finally, on a Thursday night we had to be escorted out of the neighborhood in police cars under police protection for our safety to a local hotel. A lesbian cis woman about 30 years old physically assaulted me, Jennifer, twice within about 10 minutes in front of 2 cops who arrived to the situation and the two male cops did nothing. Deplorable !  A truly emotional traumatic experience for me that sent me into severe depression for a week afterwards. The male and female cops who gave us a safety ride a local hotel a few hours later were much more helpful and sympathetic than the first 2 male cops who were rather condescending to us and tolerated the lesbian girl's physically assaulting me twice within about 10 minutes solely for my words condemning the rock throwing and taunting against us.

In person I've also had a few different TRANS hateful anti-trans bigots tell me (earlier in my transition -- not now) tell me repeatedly in person that "you looTk like a man" and "I feel embarassed to be out in public with me" -- verbal Hate Crimes against me by anti-trans bully bigot trans ladies. In person. This happened to me multiple times earlier in my transition -- even after I had appeared in a beauty pageant if you can believe it ! I mean, how much more female can I appear than to be in a televised female beauty pageant and STILL have some cis and trans people commit a Hate Crime against me by intentionally and repeatedly calling me a "man." How evil !

There is plenty of anti-trans hatred solely for being trans, in-person and online, that has been directed against ME, Jennifer, over the years of my medical transition, by both hateful bigot cis (non-trans) people as well as hateful bigot trans-people -- and it is especially deplorable IMO coming from other trans ladies -- who sure the heck ought to know better. Sorry for being blunt here -- but I am honestly reporting here on my extensive real-life hate victim experience that was regularly heaped on me earlier in my transition -- and regularly put me in suicidal depression. As a result I associate less frequently with trans people in general, online and in person, than earlier in my transition -- because my life is a lot happier that way -- and I know many other genuine full-time trans lades who have had similar experiences in various countries. Jennifer xx

Quote from: JenniferLopezgomez on April 11, 2017, 12:27:06 AM
That's true Dena in person the bullies CAN be more cowardly, but not always are they less cowardly in person. For example in 2015 in some lower-middle-class suburbs west of Birmingham, England, I was visiting a trans friend for a few days, and hateful bully bigots cis (non-trans) people in the neighborhood threw rocks at our windows several times and broke many windows over a couple of day period -- solely because we are trans. And chanted verbals insults repeatedly for hours at a time at various times in the afternoons and evenings until about 10 pm. Finally, on a Thursday night we had to be escorted out of the neighborhood in police cars under police protection for our safety to a local hotel. A lesbian cis woman about 30 years old physically assaulted me, Jennifer, twice within about 10 minutes in front of 2 cops who arrived to the situation and the two male cops did nothing. Deplorable !  A truly emotional traumatic experience for me that sent me into severe depression for a week afterwards. The male and female cops who gave us a safety ride a local hotel a few hours later were much more helpful and sympathetic than the first 2 male cops who were rather condescending to us and tolerated the lesbian girl's physically assaulting me twice within about 10 minutes solely for my words condemning the rock throwing and taunting against us.

In person I've also had a few different TRANS hateful anti-trans bigots tell me (earlier in my transition -- not now) tell me repeatedly in person that "you looTk like a man" and "I feel embarassed to be out in public with me" -- verbal Hate Crimes against me by anti-trans bully bigot trans ladies. In person. This happened to me multiple times earlier in my transition -- even after I had appeared in a beauty pageant if you can believe it ! I mean, how much more female can I appear than to be in a televised female beauty pageant and STILL have some cis and trans people commit a Hate Crime against me by intentionally and repeatedly calling me a "man." How evil !

There is plenty of anti-trans hatred solely for being trans, in-person and online, that has been directed against ME, Jennifer, over the years of my medical transition, by both hateful bigot cis (non-trans) people as well as hateful bigot trans-people -- and it is especially deplorable IMO coming from other trans ladies -- who sure the heck ought to know better. Sorry for being blunt here -- but I am honestly reporting here on my extensive real-life hate victim experience that was regularly heaped on me earlier in my transition -- and regularly put me in suicidal depression. As a result I associate less frequently with trans people in general, online and in person, than earlier in my transition -- because my life is a lot happier that way -- and I know many other genuine full-time trans lades who have had similar experiences in various countries. Jennifer xx

Sounds like your police suck. Throwing rocks can be deadly physical force and they do it because they know they can get away with it. It's too bad you're not allowed to defend yourself.


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