Good morning guys, dolls, etc.

It's your friend Nero again, continuing his quest to understand you rare and lovely beings, you unicorns of the transgender world.

First question:

As an androgynee, do you feel any somatic dysphoria? If so, what sort? Are you dysphoric of particular body parts or features? Primary sex characteristics and/or secondary sex characteristics? Or is your dysphoria caused more by the fact that you look like a certain binary gender?

Second question:

If you answered yes, that you do feel some somatic dysphoria - have you any notions or theories on why that may be seeing as you are non-binary?


your friend,
the all-inquisitive Nero

No dysphoria here. I would be equally content in a body of any sex!
When you don't feel you are either gender, one sex would be just as good as the other.
My physical biologically was a flip of the coin.
No need to tweak what is an equally perfect vehicle for a genderless soul.
Body and gender euphoric! 

-Emerald 

i've probably answered this one somewhere, but hey.

Apart from the usual body dislikes I do have an issue with the way may body moves. I'd love a more coordinated body. I'd also not mind a flashier body because I'd like to think I have a flashy soul. I don't, my soul is as splay footed and ham fisted as my body.

I have a certain amount of dysphoria regarding the size of my breasts, simply because they are -so- large.  Though I'm lucky and don't suffer much, there are many non-binarys that do.  Also I think I'll take Pica's answer, I'm a klutz LOL I'd love some coordination hehehe

Quote from: Emerald on February 08, 2008, 06:49:08 AM

No dysphoria here. I would be equally content in a body of any sex!
When you don't feel you are either gender, one sex would be just as good as the other.
My physical biologically was a flip of the coin.
No need to tweak what is an equally perfect vehicle for a genderless soul.
Body and gender euphoric! 

-Emerald 

Is it possible that you could for once post without making blanket statements?  There are plenty of people who don't have a gender identity but still experience somatic dysphoria.

Nero: I am,,, I feel strong somatic dysphoria towards both my primary and secondary sex characteristics.    Strictly in terms of body image it really doesn't matter if I look like a binary gender or if my body is a 50/50 mix.  None of those options are right when I look in the mirror.  In practice however, looking androgynous and therefore not being instantly labelled by everyone as male or female permits a level of dissociation from the sex characteristics I have.

As for why?  We don't have any proven medical explanation for m2fs and f2ms yet, so for ,, is anyone's guess.  Maybe estrogen levels in the womb affect gender identity as well as testosterone levels and if you're lacking both then having either in your body later in life feels wrong?  All I know is I feel far more comfortable with my testosterone blocked and taking a low dose of estrogen.  I will be interested after surgery to see how I feel with no HRT (though not a good idea to do that for long periods).

I too think we've talked about this somewhere somewhen. Anyway...

I do have a mild but quite clear case of somatic dysphoria, and one which feels very much like how some MtF's describe their condition. That is, I'm quite convinced that my brain in some way expects to be in a female body. I'm not too distressed about it, though -- even to the point that I do see the advantages of having a penis in the family and am willing to contribute to the common good by keeping it between my legs.

I see being an androgyne strictly as a matter of gender as opposed to sex, although the origins are related.
The theory I've got about my gender identity is that it's a mix of nature and nurture. Nature-wise, I got a female brain in a male body. Nurture-wise, I was given enough room to find a gender role that I can live with, in that I was never forced into a strictly masculine role. On the other hand, I also never got the opportunity to try a strictly feminine role, and by now such an opportunity is very low in my wish list. From the outside it looks like I'm about as feminine as a normal man can be, but the opposite side of that coin is that I'm about as masculine as a woman can be without causing too many eyebrows to rise. And I really haven't got any desire to go too far in either direction.

  Nfr

Andra-
I'm not Neutrois.
Neutrois are distinctive due to their acute GID and unique body dysphoria.

From http://neutrois.0catch.com/faq.htm

Quote"Neutrois Outpost, the official Neutrois Transgender home on the web!"

What are Neutrois?
Isn't this just another name for androgyne?  No. While Neutrois seek an androgynous appearance, androgynes aren't Neutrois because being Neutrois involves gender dysphoria. Androgynes don't necessarily have any difficulties with their gender identities.

Where does 'Neutrois' come from? Who coined it?  Neutrois means non-gendered class. It was originally coined by H.A. Burnham, in 1995. Ze formed it to give a name to hirself, and other people with feelings of gender absence and resulting misalignment.

Personally, I think of Neutrois as a subgroup of Androgyne, but not everyone does.

-Emerald

I have suffered from somatic dysphora, however my feelings of hatred of body parts weren't at extreme intensity levels. This, among other things, led me to believe that I wasn't really TS. I think I'd be happier with a female body, however I can manage with the male body I have. It's healthy, and everything works reasonably well Mostly my discomfort comes from being seen as male, I'd rather be seen for who I really am, neither, androgyne, or whatever else that might be. 

y2g

Quote from: Emerald on February 08, 2008, 09:14:49 AM

Andra-
I'm not Neutrois.

Er... I know.  I also know what they are, being one myself.

Quote from: y2gender on February 08, 2008, 09:38:49 AM
Mostly my discomfort comes from being seen as male, I'd rather be seen for who I really am, neither, androgyne, or whatever else that might be. 

impossible. everyone needs a hanger to place their coat.

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 08, 2008, 11:38:05 AM

Quote from: y2gender on February 08, 2008, 09:38:49 AM
Mostly my discomfort comes from being seen as male, I'd rather be seen for who I really am, neither, androgyne, or whatever else that might be. 

impossible. everyone needs a hanger to place their coat.

and where do you hang your coat? neither or both? do tell.

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 08, 2008, 11:38:05 AM
impossible. everyone needs a hanger to place their coat.

Or to park their airplane 

Quote from: Nero on February 08, 2008, 12:02:45 PM
and where do you hang your coat? neither or both? do tell.

On a peg by the front door 

Z

today I don't know what I am.

     I'm not happy with my body.  I have no clear idea of what I want to be, or need to be, in order to be happy about myself.  I don't care about genitals, but I want a female face, a full head of hair, small little shoulders.  I think I want a female body, but I don't know.  Maybe I want a manikin's body.  A feminine one.  Maybe I'm confusing feminine with 'gender neutral'.
    Today, I decided that I am ready to appropriate Pica's word - 'pregendered'.

     People see me as some creature that I don't particularly identify with.

     I guess I have that somatic dysphoria, although I had to read some posts before I knew what it meant.

     I don't know why I feel the way I do.  It's as if I have no clarity concerning myself.  I don't want men to see me as a man or a woman.  I don't want women to see me as a woman or a man. I want to be seen as an adult, though.

    I am restless.  Like my mind is waiting for the correct container.  maybe I've been feeling itchy these past few weeks.  Sometimes, I'm okay with myself, but that's because at my best, I am transcendent.  I'm not at my best.

    I left my perfect body behind at some point during my puberty.  I remember I was okay with it even though I felt it wasn't 'the one'.  Just before I reached adulthood, I lost my ability to look at least somewhat similar to the person I felt I was.


I just want to cry.

Where do I park my starship? Really though I have found this discussion interesting so far.

Cindy, your local nosy person. "Hee, hee," Wing Walker agreed.

I forgot to say that if I sound confused, it is because I am.

It's okay, though.  This is me.  This is my life.


signed,

Detective Scrotes

I don't park anything, I just walk.

Posted on: February 08, 2008, 04:05:32 PM

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Quote from: Emerald on February 08, 2008, 06:49:08 AM

When you don't feel you are either gender, one sex would be just as good as the other.

Quote from: Andra on February 08, 2008, 07:59:49 AM
Is it possible that you could for once post without making blanket statements?  There are plenty of people who don't have a gender identity but still experience somatic dysphoria.

It was a blanket statement Emerald, made for those who aren't either gender... whether or not you're neutrois.    Andra and others have said that they as well don't feel like they are either gender yet still have dysphoria.

I hope this answers the question. I am not entirely sure I understood it, so I am going off other peoples responses.

What is between my legs is not a big issue for me.

It seems strange to admit it, but to me it does not matter if the organs between my legs are male, female or null. All have benefits and downsides as far as I am concerned and none are really worth the amount of problems, money and effort a change would require. Given the option to pick, I am not even sure which way I would want to go other than saying that of the 3 options my least likely choice would be what I currently have due to looks (male organs are not good looking to me) and the fact that I ride bicycles (lets just say there are times when testicles are a mans least favorite body part).

Someone around here once said their penis was more like a built-in strap-on, I always thought of mine sort of like excess baggage. You do not need one for an orgasm and you do not need one to give an orgasm so why carry it around. It is an extra appendage, a fragile package that if you do not pack properly will cause considerable trouble during travel.

Don't get me wrong having male genitalia has its moments, but as they say, the most important sex organ is between your ears, not your legs.

Quote from: Rebis on February 08, 2008, 01:35:58 PM
I just want to cry.

Sorry you're feeling bad Reeb! It will get better. The world will eventually recognize us all for the beautiful and unique beings that we are.

Z

Chucking humor to the side for now, I quite agree with you y2gender, I really do feel bad that you are feeling down Rebis hon. 

QuoteSorry you're feeling bad Reeb! It will get better. The world will eventually recognize us all for the beautiful and unique beings that we are.

Z

Cindy

Quote from: cindybc on February 08, 2008, 09:57:47 PM
Chucking humor to the side for now, I quite agree with you y2gender, I really do feel bad that you are feeling down Rebis hon. 

QuoteSorry you're feeling bad Reeb! It will get better. The world will eventually recognize us all for the beautiful and unique beings that we are.

Z

Cindy

Thanks.  It'll pass.  It always does.

There are times when I truly do not understand who or what I am.