I'm just wondering if my experience was unique or if there are more out there like me... I started HRT around 21, but I clearly (at one point) had enough T* produced to lower my voice, and cause a few whiskers to start.. but when I measured it & started hrt testosterone was basically non-existent (less than 3), and my estrogen levels 'peri-menopausal'  around 50 ng/dl.

I did start spiro, but really only took it for about a year while I was on HRT... eventually got GCS (srs) when I was 26.

The odd thing is even now when I stop taking HRT for an extended period, my hormones will drop back to the levels they were around 21.  50'ish estrogen, and 0 t*  (I'm in my 40's).  I also have progesterone that's actually in regular female levels too, without HRT. 

Wondering if anyone else out there had that.  When I came out to my mother back then her response was it was 'probably a tumor'.  Well I'm still alive mom, thanks for your concern

I started hormones at 21 too, but never got my T checked until 7 months, but at 7 months my T was at 16, currently it's at 9.

I was diagnosed as hypogonadic (low testosterone) at age 57.  My T was 150 on a 300-1100 scale.  I started T injections.

My estradiol was 80 on a male scale of 0-50.   It turned out that my body had a lot of the enzyme aromatase, which converts testosterone to estradiol.

After 6 months of testosterone, my nipples were erect all the time and I was growing boobs.

I found out I preferred the estradiol.  10 years later my body is mostly feminine.

I was born in 1949 and my mother was given DES (diethylstilbestrol) while she was carrying me, and I think that was the genesis of my problems.  I was never very male.

Mine was at 221 before I started Spiro. Base was 300-1000. NP said most trans women start with low T

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Quote from: Brianna_F on May 10, 2017, 03:19:45 AM
Mine was at 221 before I started Spiro. Base was 300-1000. NP said most trans women start with low T

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I don't think Spiro lowers my Testosterone levels. Just blocks the receptors


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I started with really high T at 55 years old.  Spiro does lower T production that results in reduced blood concentration.  That's what gets measured in the blood test.  My blood concentration went from the top end of normal to non-existent over 18 months.

I was DES also.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

My testosterone was 68 on the 300-1000 scale and my estrogen levels were high at age 45 and that's when my urologist found that I had Kleinfelter's XXY. I was born with some female features, never really developed in puberty except for my voice and body hair, and have had moobs and underdeveloped genitalia all my life. I used testosterone gel after my diagnosis and it was not what I needed. Now I've been on Estradiol for three weeks and feel much better. 


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Quote from: Doreen on May 09, 2017, 08:11:50 PMwhen I measured it & started hrt testosterone was basically non-existent (less than 3), and my estrogen levels 'peri-menopausal'  around 50 ng/dl.

Are you sure the units for estrogen are ng/dl and not pg/ml or pmol/L? Is it estrogen or estradiol? Not the same. Testosterone is in nmol/L or ng/dl? Total, bio-available or free?

It's important to specify these things. I suspect your T (probably total) was less than 3 ng/dl as you used the word non-existent and your E was estradiol, at 50 pg/ml.

QuoteI also have progesterone that's actually in regular female levels too, without HRT.

What are your levels and please indicate units? Regular female levels can be anywhere from very low, around 0 to up 30 ng/ml during a menstrual cycle and even much higher during pregnancy. They overlap with male range.

Low,T=300 for a measure taken 20 years ago. That's normal but definitely on the low end, 5th percentile.

I've come to wonder if that relatively low number may explain say relatively low ejaculate volume -- in all things objectively masculine I certainly over performed trying so hard to fit in but those are behavior things, not biology.

I don't have access to the early lab results, but you are correct I should have specified. These are from the latest non-hrt results. (I'm back on it now).  Testosterone Serum <3 ng/dL  reference range for females is 8-48 'normal'.   Estrogens, total (without hrt) 51 pg/mL  normal is 61-437, post menopausal is <40.  Progesterone 0.5 ng/mL  normal is 0.2-27.0

Hope this helps.

ON Hrt the numbers rise dramatically all except T* it stays <3.. I don't have to take a lot of medicine to get it spiking pretty high.  (I'm on half the standard dose of a post-hysterectomy woman my age).

No doses discussed here, just lab results... in case the mods are watching.  I DO remember the doc telling me I had no testosterone, even though I requested to join the 'spiro' club nonetheless... and he was willing to accommodate all those years ago.

Quote from: KayXo on May 10, 2017, 08:31:57 AM
Are you sure the units for estrogen are ng/dl and not pg/ml or pmol/L? Is it estrogen or estradiol? Not the same. Testosterone is in nmol/L or ng/dl? Total, bio-available or free?

It's important to specify these things. I suspect your T (probably total) was less than 3 ng/dl as you used the word non-existent and your E was estradiol, at 50 pg/ml.

What are your levels and please indicate units? Regular female levels can be anywhere from very low, around 0 to up 30 ng/ml during a menstrual cycle and even much higher during pregnancy. They overlap with male range.

Quote from: Doreen on May 10, 2017, 11:14:22 AMTestosterone Serum <3 ng/dL  reference range for females is 8-48 'normal'.

Very low indeed. What I thought.

QuoteEstrogens, total (without hrt) 51 pg/mL

Not high for males as it includes both estradiol and estrone. Estradiol levels for males range anywhere from 10-60 and that's without estrone. Male range overlaps womens'.

QuoteProgesterone 0.5 ng/mL

Male range 0.2-0.9 ng/ml so normal.

QuoteHope this helps.

Thanks.

QuoteON Hrt the numbers rise dramatically all except T* it stays <3.. I don't have to take a lot of medicine to get it spiking pretty high.  (I'm on half the standard dose of a post-hysterectomy woman my age).

What are your levels right now?

The latest one Before I stopped Hrt for ffs (I was off HRT over 3 months) is as follows.   Please note, I haven't gotten a more recent one as I restarted HRT around March of this year, and I generally wait for a 3 month follow up... but the latest was collected before I left for FFS and was still taking it.   Confusing? Probably lol... but here.

Estrogen 825 pg/mL
Progesterone 9.2 ng/mL
Testosterone, serum 3 ng/dL

Hey at least with my .. shall we say slightly elevated Estrogen levels my testosterone finally bumped up to 3 lol.
Needless to say my dosage was halved.

Now I do get it that males to have some testosterone (especially with very high levels) aromatise into Estrogen... Since I have no testosterone pretty sure that isn't happening.  Not to mention I lack the male equipment to manufacture it in the first place.

Quote from: Doreen on May 10, 2017, 07:15:33 PM
Estrogen 825 pg/mL
Progesterone 9.2 ng/mL
Testosterone, serum 3 ng/dL

If you take no progesterone, then that level is high indeed and could signal an enzymatic problem in your body. You need to verify with your doctor. Estrogen is the sum of estrone and estradiol. If you take estradiol orally, then most likely the majority of that is estrone and estradiol is not high. If taken non-orally, then estradiol is certainly not low but not too high either considering ciswomen have levels as high as 650 pg/ml during a menstrual cycle, higher during pregnancy, up to 75,000 pg/ml.

QuoteHey at least with my .. shall we say slightly elevated Estrogen levels my testosterone finally bumped up to 3 lol.

Estrogen does not convert to androgen, so estradiol cannot convert to testosterone, only the other way around. Hormone levels fluctuate.

QuoteNeedless to say my dosage was halved.

Because doctor feels high levels pose risks while several studies show high levels (in ciswomen, men, transwomen), when estradiol is taken, especially non-orally, pose little risk, even at an advanced age. Too bad doctors don't have the time to read these studies. We end up losing. Unless you do the research and share it with your doctors. That's what I did and their opinions changed.

FYI, my total estrogen is around 2,000-6,000 pg/ml. No issues and doctors approve. I take estrogen by intramuscular injection.

Quote from: KayXo on May 11, 2017, 09:07:53 AM

Because doctor feels high levels pose risks while several studies show high levels (in ciswomen, men, transwomen), when estradiol is taken, especially non-orally, pose little risk, even at an advanced age. Too bad doctors don't have the time to read these studies. We end up losing. Unless you do the research and share it with your doctors. That's what I did and their opinions changed.

My Endocrinologist is very well informed as to the low risks of non-oral estradiol. He knew of my desires to transition and my preference for sublingual route. The rest was very straight forward. Routine lab tests on the first visit and my prescriptions were in hand on the second visit.

There is no substitute for a good, knowledgeable physician.

Some people here have posted their opinion concerning obtaining HRT from a clinic. I have concerns about this. I would have to take a look at the clinic procedures to see if the proper safe guards are in place.

Just my opinion.

I have never seen an actual endocrinologist.. while yes it would be 'nice' to keep everything specifically tied down... The need for it? I don't see it as necessary.  Most Registered Nurses are trained well enough to be able to interpret labs, read when medications need to be increased or decreased.. if a RN can do it, certainly a FNP or a general physician is trained to read labs.  NOW that being said if you have diabetes, kidney problems, liver issues, etc... I would recommend a specialist.  In the grand scheme of things, my life has been fine without one, but its fun to kick questions around.  You'd be surprised how many docs generally also do NOT have a clue when talking about specific health issues too.. they're not the panacea of total medical knowledge society & media makes them out to be.. they are good in the field of their choice usually though.  Having actually worked in the health care field for decades I've seen this first hand.  Not denigrating docs... don't get me wrong... as I said they are usually pretty good in the field they work in, but I wouldn't want a FFS surgeon treating my diabetes (if I had it).

Since I have generally no other health issues, I've been seeing a general physician and a FNP that specializes in HRT.. and that's working fine for me.  It never hurts to ask or access a board of potentially knowledgeable people on the topic however.. especially since this is an area that directly impacts most of us.  Though one has to be aware there are also a lot of uneducated 'educated' folks that have tons of opinions that you should accept for what it is.

My T has been under 300 since my 20's (currently 40's).

4 months Spiro and T = 12.

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Last 2 x Testosterone reading 0.05 .....What testosterone  ...caused by the side effects of other medications....

Yes.
My Doctor tested my testosterone levels in 2009 for an unrelated issue and said they were the lowest he had ever tested.  Next time I saw him I asked, was that among both men and women and he said for men. 

He was also around seventy years old so he had been practicing a long time.

My T level pre-HRT was 180 ng/dL, although I didn't have any symptoms of it. I never used any anti-androgen; my endo didn't think I needed it, and considering that my T level dropped to within the female range in the first 3 months of super low dose estrogen, I'm inclined to agree. She didn't test my estrogen levels, but I did have some gynecomastia and "female" fat distribution even before HRT, so it may have been higher than usual.

(My T levels also didn't even drop post-op, suggesting that it was thoroughly suppressed by E alone.)

At start, in late 2015, my T levels were 160. So, low, but not terribly so.  My Practitioner was happy, she said it's much easier to work from a low starting point...


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