Ever notice how many people looking at ffs surgeons say "Oh the results on xxx are so great, blah blah" yet if you actually LOOK at the patients... pre is frowning, no makeup (a typical requested pic for 'evaluation.. usually at ones worst angles).. POST is smiling, makeup, wig, etc.

If you want an honest and thorough examination fine include the 'good' pic too, but include the EXACT same angle, facial expression, lighting, hairstyle, and NO MAKEUP.

One thing I appreciated about Dr. Cardenas.  He did that... post op 2 weeks the angles were exactly the same, no makeup, etc.  Only then can you get a pure evaluation of pre & post pics.  I get people want to put their results in the best light possible... but on their sites they need to be more honest.  Beware FFS surgeons that do this.  The only problem 2 weeks after is the swelling is gonna be a bit misleading too.  Really you need a 6-12 month follow up with all those standards applied.

Just my rant.. and my 2 cents worth.

I would agree that Cardenas is good about the image comparisons.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

It totally bugs me that FFS surgeons will do that and patients do it even more often. Sometimes I also see pre OP posts still with male hairstyle and maybe even a beard or a hat on the head and then post OP all done up and styled - maybe with makeup and better lighting  - that transformation looks like 90% non FFS related. I saw a video from olmec in india recently with pre and post images where the pre images were having dark, indian skincolor, the post pictures were taken with more light and exposure apparently and gave the impression of a nearly white skincolor.

I like the gallery that Facialteam has set up, they managed to get the angles so well matched up that one can use a slider on the website to slide back and forth between the two images and see the changes directly. This is perfect, I wish it would become standard.

Agreed on FT's "slider".  Their honesty is noticeable.

Unlike that surgeon in Denver whose before-and-afters look like he took his patients to one of those transgender glamour shots places.  The actual "FF" part of many surgeons' "FFS" is a joke.

Stick to the BIG names.  And if you see dishonest before-and-afters, rethink your decision.

FFS IS NOT MAGIC.  IT'S SUBTLE AND NOT A MIRACLE CURE.  IF YOU SEE PHOTOS PURPORTING TO BE TURNING CAVEMAN FACES INTO PRETTY GIRLS, YOU'RE ABOUT TO BE SCAMMED!

Well I think it can look like magic if one has really masculine facial features they can with luck and good technique made female - but the photos taken are the key - if the before photos show a woman with very masculine features and the after photos show a somewhat bland (without makeup) looking more feminine woman, it is quite realistic. Some of the changes that can be seen in the honest photographs are amazing.

What I dislike though is if this is exaggerated with photography "tricks" or if people have only subtle changes that are however well done - like if the person has a rather androgynous or feminine face before and its not stunningly 1000% feminine afterwards, but still worth the change and then to make it look more "worth it", there are other "tricks" applied in the photos.

This is the video I was talking about before where the lighting of the photos was changed. I would not say that the photos were photoshopped, but part of the effect of the comparison there is different styling, facial expression and light of the setting, maybe also camera light correction. (Caution, the video contains graphic surgery pictures in the first part)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QZwqmzuzBY&feature=youtu.be&t=481

Fortunately there is no denying my changes pre & post.. pre I looked  'hard', angular, far too masculine for my liking (though I still did get mammed).  Post its not even really a worry any more.  OH there is that tiny nagging voice saying 'what if, or .. that person looked, etc.) but I quickly silence it lol.   I hear facial team is pretty good too.  I had heard of Dr. Cardenas over a decade ago, but had let the doubts about mexico seep in.  I finally 'got over it', went, and am very grateful I did.  You don't have to spend 3-4x more to get just as good of service and results in my opinion.  Frankly its amazing.

I also checked diMaggios Gallery - its not perfect, but it seems to at least try to match angles and is not too artificial - basically it seems to reply a lot on patient private photos, which are of course not perfectly done, but it seems ok.

I am not saying anything about the quality of the work of any of these surgeons, I am just focussing on the quality of the before and after pictures right now.

If memory serves me DiMaggios studied under Cardenas before he got started.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Oh really? So Cardenas is basically his "teacher"? Maybe it makes sense to look into him then as well, I did not have him on my list at all, just diMaggio because I knew someone who went there. Does he do the same "style" and techniques?

Its been way too long since I paid any attention to either of them. I dont want to lead you astray with dated information. I thought Dimaggio did a good job building his own reputation by doing good work. I dont remember him ever using his relationship with Cardenas as a marketing tool. He seemed to be more aggressive from the beginning and even less exspensive at the time. This was back in 2004-2005 when he was just getting started.

I cant think of any reason why I wouldn't check him out, but like I said, I'm out of the loop on FFS surgeons anymore.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I agree it's good to work toward having similarly styled and lit photos for before and after but sometimes after a surgery one might realize how poorly lit any personal (not surgeon) before photos were. I also think after any surgery, a patient may be more excited and comfortable about their ongoing transition and that might yield more of a desire to use makeup or wear certain things.

I know some things I could not wear before certain changes, where afterwards I had more success. I guess it's always relative for people... you take some incremental step and all of a suddenly realize there are more possibilities and photos start exhibiting those new possibilities... I've had that happen.

But I do get it... it's nice to compare similarly styled photos. Offices that take before/after photos are at their best when they insist on doing that. I took an after photo for a lip lift once where they wanted me to put on the same paper gown thingy i had on before surgery where they took the before photos. Made sense... they wanted both before/after to have the same look in that regard.

Cheers,
Ashley

Well yes of course these things will change us. I had this with voice surgery - right after surgery, even befroe speaking a word in the new voice, I felt I can relax more, became more feminine - I ended up loosing weight and this change me even more to the point where I dropped my habit to only wear jeans for many years and dared to try more feminine styles. But really - for a surgical photo all of this does not matter. It is not about how people feel or if they are proud they changed so much, its about facts and comparison. There can be more casual, expressive photos attached as well, to see how great this looks in daily life then - but I think the minimum for a surgical comparison photo is to have a set of before and after photos that really show only the differences caused by the surgery.
I could show pre and post op photos of me regarding the voice surgery - One would think I also had a facial surgery or something else done, lol - things are a lot different - facial expression, weight, style, hair, makeup,... but that would not be directly attributed to the voice surgery but an indirect result at best.

Quote from: anjaq on May 14, 2017, 02:38:18 PMIt is not about how people feel or if they are proud they changed so much, its about facts and comparison. There can be more casual, expressive photos attached as well, to see how great this looks in daily life then - but I think the minimum for a surgical comparison photo is to have a set of before and after photos that really show only the differences caused by the surgery.

I couldn't agree more. Another FFS gallery that meets these criteria and wasn't mentioned here is Dr. Rossi's on the T-Change website

Quote from: anjaq on May 14, 2017, 02:38:18 PM
... But really - for a surgical photo all of this does not matter. It is not about how people feel or if they are proud they changed so much, its about facts and comparison. There can be more casual, expressive photos attached as well, to see how great this looks in daily life then - but I think the minimum for a surgical comparison photo is to have a set of before and after photos that really show only the differences caused by the surgery.
I could show pre and post op photos of me regarding the voice surgery - One would think I also had a facial surgery or something else done, lol - things are a lot different - facial expression, weight, style, hair, makeup,... but that would not be directly attributed to the voice surgery but an indirect result at best.

Forgive the delay, meant to respond to the other day but got past me...

You make great points I agree with... my prior post was not as clear as it should have been...

You're stressing the importance that photos from doctor's offices be consistent as well as have settings/lighting to offer a realistic perspective to a prospective patient reviewing those photos. I could not agree more. The before/after photos should be consistent with makeup or not, lighting, smiles and all that, and the resulting images should have reasonable sharpness/contrast/clarity to avoid hiding normally visible blemishes/wrinkles.

I'm just saying, early on I had an experience after a surgery where own personally captured before photos were not great because I had made less effort than I should have along the way. On hindsight I realized I'm stuck in terms of creating an excellent set of before/after photos because I was then limited to either the lowest common denominator defined by the lesser 'before' photos, or creating stellar 'after' photos that differed starkly in quality from the after photos. That experience taught me to try to ensure I get decent quality, or at least consistent personal photos along the way should I wish to personally document my own progress outside of a surgeon's photos. It's harder than it sounds because laziness can be a tough thing to over come to capture really decent photos. 

Cheers,
Ashley

I think all good FFS surgeons will take proper before-photos with good camera and lighting - even if intended only for their inhouse documentation or to show it to other patients if allowed - I think one can always get a copy of them and does not have to rely on self made before photos. One just has to match the settings of the photos taken at the doc to get good comparable before and after photos

Quote from: anjaq on May 19, 2017, 03:39:00 AM
I think all good FFS surgeons will take proper before-photos with good camera and lighting - even if intended only for their inhouse documentation or to show it to other patients if allowed - I think one can always get a copy of them and does not have to rely on self made before photos. One just has to match the settings of the photos taken at the doc to get good comparable before and after photos

You're totally right on that, one should never have to rely on their own self made photos for surgical pre-OP/post-OP photos that a good surgeon will take, and as you mention one can ensure the same bar of quality/consistency by matching camera settings (and I'll add to that things like matching composition, lighting, background and all that) with any self-made photos to get good comparable photos.