i'm just wondering how many hours should it take to do your top lip and chin?
the way mine is going at it they just do a little bit here and moves
to another part of my face and a little bit there?
or shoulsd i ask  how many hairs an hour on an average Caucasians face whose not that hairy and does not have very dense hair on the face take?

they say they have to move around my face so not to burn me and that seems to make sense but i really  just want my gottee area gone and its taking for ever! ugh !

does anybody have a simple way of explaining how many hairs an hour should be zapped out?

sorry if this doesn't make sense hopefully it will?

thanks in advance Rachel

Upper lip is in a different pain category compared to chin, and more visible (more benefit, but more risk if it's rushed).  For initial upper lip clearing I think it's a good idea to move around. Needed several months (4 to 6 hours per week) thermo method electrolysis to clear the beard line, moving from neck upward like a lawn mower about a quarter inch per trip.  After the neck and chin reached initial clearing, electrologist started on upper lip - alternating lip with other areas of regrowth.  Massive hassle and expense and I believe absolutely worth it - as the roots eventually clear out your skin gets visibly lighter and softer as the roots go away for good. 

I started with very dense facial hair.  Even if yours isn't very dense this still involves thousands of hair roots at different angles and growth stages. 

Once you've had it all cleared and tackling secondary growth, your electrologist will probably move around less as the risk of accidental damage decreases and your pain tolerance changes.

A coarse beard is actually faster to remove because there are fewer hairs to the square inch. Those of us with fine facial hair tend to have a lot more hair even though it doesn't look like it. Most of my hair was on my chin and under my nose and it took nearly 200 hours to treat. I would guess 6 to 10 hairs a minute would be the normal treatment rate however things really slow down when it's difficult to determine the direction the hair grew out. This might be a big issue for people with curly hair as their beard might be curly as well.

I have naturally sparse hair which was about 60% Dark and 40% grey lumps of hair(felt like it) I have had 4 hours on my top lip already and am going for my final full top lip clearance today...I expect to get a few stragglers like normal but essentially this should be it.

I have facial injection so the area my tech can work in is limited to the size of the area that is numb. I asked her to concentrate her efforts on my top lip and chin as there is the most dense area on my face. Because I am completely numb she can work with the current at optimal level for the removal of the hair and not my comfort. Which makes her strike rate of 1 zap hair follicle =1 kill, much more successful...

Talk to your Electrologist and tell her the area you would like her to concentrate on and I am sure as you are the paying customer that she will concentrate on that area for you.

Is your electrologist ripping you off? I would say probably.
I've done laser and electrolysis extensively and have become very astute to their practices. Remember, this is their business and their goal is to make as much money as possible. Be weary of electrologists who seem to gravitate torwards areas of your face that bother you the least. I have said countless times that we need to focus around my lips and chin. But that doesn't stop them from gravitating towards my sideburn area. I have to keep instructing them to do the areas that cause me the most grief. It's as if they are so worried that if they clear my lip and chin that I will never come back.
Maybe I'm a negative Nancy but I call it the way I see it. You need to be vocal with what you want or else they will go on auto pilot. And auto pilot to them is to maximize profit at your expense. I'm at the point where I literally have to instruct them hair by hair. It is the only way. Don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of.

By moving from area to another ares in the same session, your electrologist will indeed reduce the likelihood of severe inflammation of the skin.

Electrolysis takes time and 6 to 10 hairs a minute is about right and 200 hours to permanently clear a face is also what many other ladies have reported. It took about 30 hours to clear my face one time and I expect to have to do this about 5 more times for a permanent clearing.

Many of us have had a few laser treatments before we started with the electrolysis. If your hair is dark and skin is light, you may want to try this to speed things up a bit.

Is she ripping you off? Maybe not. She could be cautious trying to not permanently scar your face from too much electrolysis too fast.

My electrologist has no problem with me directing which area to target on each session. Sometimes we will plan on which area to do next session and I do not shave that area for a few days to let the hair grow a bit more to make the electrolysis easier. 

I just recently had this discussion in another thread. There are plenty of Electrologists out there that simply have no clue what they're doing. Worst thing is, I suspect many of them don't even know that they don't know. They literally think they're practicing electrology and aren't just the glorified chicken plucker's that they actually are.
     Make them clear a small area (2 square inches) somewhere on your face, then make them do it again in two months, then again in two more months. It's important to wait the 8 weeks so the hair phases can occur. If the hairs in that area continue to grow back with anything like the same density, find some new people because these people are absolutely clueless. Let me tell you, you can sit at home and pluck your hairs from your face for free. You don't need to go somewhere and pay for that privilege. Some practitioner's like to tell you that they like to "move around". This actually keeps you from knowing if any progress is being made in any kind of any meaningful way. Again, make them pick 2 square inches and clear it..over and over again. It's the only way to tell if your practitioner knows what they're doing. If they're effective? you'll know. The hair will quit growing back. Only then, let them float around your face and use the graze method. If they tell you that you're too sensitive and they won't do it? Then they're lousy at their job and your flushing your money. Find someone new.
      This is the most frustrating process in the world      I feel your pain...literally.

How does anyone tolerate all the waiting between each session?  I feel that facial hair is the biggest source for women not to pass and have dysphoria.  How is it that there is seriously no better system than this?  My electrolysist will only do a maximum of 2 hours a week.  She won't do work in the same area of the face more than once a month.  Her website says expect 200+ hours to permanently clear the face.  This works out to a minimum of 2 years to achieve what most cis women have as a built in feature.  How does this electrolysist claim to be trans-friendly if we are forced to delay our lives by 2 years?  This is a famous place where I get the electrolysis done, and I will leave the name blank for now.

I never thought I'd consider laser, as it's not permanent, but what if I could start feeling alive with more immediacy?  Thoughts?

To speed up electrolysis, consider a few marathon sessions. E3000 near Dallas TX is well known and there are others.

Quote from: Dani on May 15, 2017, 10:47:32 AM
To speed up electrolysis, consider a few marathon sessions. E3000 near Dallas TX is well known and there are others.

There are others?  Can you please list them?  I'm no where near Dallas, nor do I have a way to get to Dallas.

Quote from: Axolotl on May 15, 2017, 11:20:41 AM
There are others?  Can you please list them?  I'm no where near Dallas, nor do I have a way to get to Dallas.

Here is another is Chicago that does bulk hair removal (multiple electrologists, 12 hours, etc.):
http://www.aboutyouhairremoval.com/

The average face has approx 30,000 hairs. I can get approx 250 hairs an hour removed. This means 120 hours are needed at an expense of about $7,200. 

With Laser As a general rule, legs and backs take an hour to an hour and a half, while an upper lip or the tops of ears may require eight to 10 minutes. The front of the neck or underarms can take as little as 20 minutes. Unfortunately it does not work on light colored hair or dark colored skin. After four or five repeat visits for hair that regrows and you should be fairly well hair free with only short visits to retard regrowth.

Quote from: ainsley on May 15, 2017, 11:33:13 AM
Here is another is Chicago that does bulk hair removal (multiple electrologists, 12 hours, etc.):
http://www.aboutyouhairremoval.com/

Susan Laird is a California electrologist who does galvanic marathons: http://hairzapper.com/

You're on your own for pain meds but the quality of her work is very good.

There's no unicorns, rainbows or sugar coating it....facial hair removal is a long, expensive, painful and tedious task.  Also,  it seems my entire life revolves around my hair cycle.  Without laser, 200hours doesn't sound unreasonable.  I'm a fan of laser, it made a big difference to my skin appearance quickly and even if some of it works out to not be permanent (YMMV) it was worth it to me.

As for your technicians strategy.  My face tends to swell pretty badly when staying within the same area so I'm fine with a scatter technique.  Unfortunately, the scatter technique is less rewarding because it takes longer to see larger sections of smooth skin but I would rather not be bruised, excessively swollen and/or scarred. 

Quote from: staciM on May 15, 2017, 02:33:40 PM

As for your technicians strategy.  My face tends to swell pretty badly when staying within the same area so I'm fine with a scatter technique.  Unfortunately, the scatter technique is less rewarding because it takes longer to see larger sections of smooth skin but I would rather not be bruised, excessively swollen and/or scarred.

Hmmmmm...I believe my point was lost here. Strategy is one issue, incompetence an entirely different one. How might you ascertain your Tech. is efficient or effective at all? My first run was with someone who had no skill and I was unable to figure that little fact out because I had no frame of reference. She did however have my money at the end of that little waste of time and energy.

Quote from: jentay1367 on May 15, 2017, 02:53:49 PM
Hmmmmm...I believe my point was lost here. Strategy is one issue, incompetence an entirely different one. How might you ascertain your Tech. is efficient or effective at all? My first run was with someone who had no skill and I was unable to figure that little fact out because I had no frame of reference. She did however have my money at the end of that little waste of time and energy.

All I was saying is that a scattering technique is just as common and viable for facial clearing than zapping a cluster.  The OP had specific concerns over this.  How and when techniques and system modes are used are client dependent and they should be discussed and questioned if you have concerns.  My technician has many years of experience with CISwoman with Polycystic ovary syndrome so deals with full thick face clearing all the time.  We discussed the pros/cons early on and taking my treatment reactions, system settings/options and pain threshold into consideration we designed an appropriate plan.  We also reevaluate every once in a while to make sure we are on track.  I don't feel duped with this technique, I just feel this is appropriate for my particular face and goals.

As for expertise, you have have a certain amount of trust based on queues you receive, progress you see and sometimes just simple woman's intuition.  I'm not interested in hopping around to several techs on a whim to verify competence unless there's a specific advantage (mass clearing for instance) or a red flag that I pick up on.  As of now, me and a few other girls are happy with our technician and skill set.  Also, she just so happens to use a completely different set of probe sizes, techniques and system modes that are optimized for the other girls hair/faces/pain/re-growth patterns etc.

I am going to have another crack at a full clearance on my top lip today...there is about 30 minutes worth due to the complications of last weeks session where we only go 1/2 hour done...Today we should finish this and I doubt that I will be dealing with anything but the odd clean up hair...that will make it about 7 hours on my top lip alone (due to the incompetence of another operator) which should have it finished...then I am pretty sure we are on the home stretch...Laser has taken out so much work...sure some grows back but certainly not in the same way or as much and each successive laser treatment permanently kills a few more. I am at the stage where I get my Tech to take all hair black included. Tomorrow is my last laser session before I go to maintenance mode and instead of 6 weeks it will be as needed.

The skill of the Tech is above all else what will make the difference. When my Tech clears an area I don't get full on regrowth maybe 10% (don't really know) With the previous cheaper tech I was continually going over her old work...one session back with my expert and she again shows why she is more expensive her kill rate would be at least double if not triple my previous Tech...You should not feel any sensation fo the hair being removed...if there is any tension left then it has not been zapped properly and will feel like it is being pulled out.....

Lisa and I discussed this in another thread where the tech's skills seem to the most singular part of why an Electrologist is successful. The good ones tend to recommend doing some laser to help reduce the volume showing concern for doing a good job and giving good advice...these tend to be the best Tech's IMHO

If I want a particular area worked on I simply don't prepare may face than for any other area than the place I want worked on...today the only part of my face I want to deal with is my lip so it is the only one with any growth. I normally have injections so pick an area...numb it up and that is where she works...

Quote from: staciM on May 15, 2017, 02:33:40 PM
There's no unicorns, rainbows or sugar coating it....facial hair removal is a long, expensive, painful and tedious task.  Also,  it seems my entire life revolves around my hair cycle.  Without laser, 200hours doesn't sound unreasonable.  I'm a fan of laser, it made a big difference to my skin appearance quickly and even if some of it works out to not be permanent (YMMV) it was worth it to me.

As for your technicians strategy.  My face tends to swell pretty badly when staying within the same area so I'm fine with a scatter technique.  Unfortunately, the scatter technique is less rewarding because it takes longer to see larger sections of smooth skin but I would rather not be bruised, excessively swollen and/or scarred.

Well, I seem to have raised your ire a bit. I'd like to say that was never my intent. If I've made you angry, I apologize profusely.
      I only want to share that Women who are presently experiencing frustration with their current protocol and tech., be proactive and then consider that you may not be getting all your money/time worth through that Avenue. As you remember, I even told you that sticking with your excellent current Tech. may be your best tact, both emotionally and financially. So in reality, you are not who I send this cautionary advice to, Staci. I'm not trying to create condescension here. I merely want all my sisters to get the most value for dollar that's available to them. Many of us scramble to find the assets needed to get our agenda fulfilled. Wasting those assets on nonsense, hurts doubly bad.

Nah, I didn't take it that way.  No anger here or apology required....I was just explaining (poorly) why the different techniques and approaches exist

Thanks S <3  ...........I appreciate the clarirification!  Lisa