So, I'll soon be leaving on a trip to Europe, including the southern Mediterranean where my relatives live. I'm pre-T, and definitely don't pass, though I look more male/androgynous and my clothing is male. I'm waiting to start T till I come back, for a couple of reasons (work benefits coverage, end of probation, worry that relatives may go through my stuff, etc). I bind full-time, and at home I will wear a packer sometimes.  I also haven't been shaving various parts that women are expected to shave, due to dysphoria.

I'm not close to them and I'm out (or been outed) to some of them (Mom's side of the family). My Dad's side doesn't know and I"m aiming to keep it this way. This is probably the last time I will see him.

I've got no worries about my time in the UK and friends there. That's all good. But I'm worried about how to deal with relatives when I go to the Med. I'll be there for about a week. I'm going for a friend's wedding, seeing my Dad who I'm mostly estranged from, and seeing a couple of relatives on my Mom's side- my aunt, who my Mom outed me to, and my aunt said that's normal these days to be trans*. Good on her.

So I guess my worries are:

1. How do I deal with my dysphoria in this very traditional gender role type of country... the expectation is to be femme and glamorous, etc ,and go hang out on the beach in a bikini or swim suit (with the wedding party).  I'm reluctantly thinking I'm going to have shave legs and arm pits etc... because it's hot and I'm going to need to wear shorts and short sleeve shirts.  Sorry if that's TMI.   But I refuse to wear dresses etc to 'fit in' and all that.

2. How do I deal with the relatives on Mom's side who know? And I'm not sure who all knows there, so a little concerned for safety.

3. Dealing with airport security?

Any other thoughts are welcome.

I grew up in Spain, so perhaps I can relate a little bit - but my parents weren´t Spanish and they had no problem with me being androgynous (I came out much, much later).

Back there I hated blending in, you were (as you say) expected to wear tight shirts preferably showing lots of figure, and a bikini to the beach (blech...). Although you say that you already look androgynous and you are already estranged from your dad, so I´m thinking maybe they´ll just put up with it?

You not shaving your legs doesn´t scream "trans" necessarily, they could interpret it as you simply not wanting to conform to ideals of womanhood... I understand it´s complicated in these countries though. I suppose it´s a decision you will have to make, based on what´s more important  to you (whether you feel good, or they feel good about you).

Your aunt sounds cool, so perhaps your other relatives (on your mothers´ side) are actually already a little open-minded? Perhaps if you find they are not open minded, you could talk to them about why you want this, perhaps including your aunt in the conversation...

I´m not sure about airport security but I heard from other transguys that sometimes they just put the packer in the luggage when you have to go through the check. There are a few old threads on it I think. Hope this helped, I´m rambling a bit. Gotta go sleep.

Cheers November! Yeah, with my dad I'll just go looking androgynous. I think my Mom's side of the family has less expectation, although they do default to the marrying me off and having children... that's stuff for an anxiety attack.   I see them rarely so that's not an ongoing issue for me. My dad will have the same kind of expectation, along with me looking super femme... that was never my look in the first place, and I haven't seen him in 17 years, so he doesn't have a recent frame of reference for me. Seriously, I swear he still thinks I'm six, even though I'm 40.  

Yeah, the shaving thing is a big deal there. I suppose my aim while I'm there is to find some kind of middle ground of looking androgynous and drawing as little attention to myself as possible. Which probably means shaving, because that would create a stir with the people around me. Lame, but yeah. I refuse to wear a female swim suit, however. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that. Probably shorts and t-shirt. I don't swim (or really badly), so I may wade but that's about it. I never was much of a beach person anyway.

I'm nervous about taking the packer with me, so I'm not sure what I'll do about that yet. I wouldn't wear it through security if I did have it... checked luggage I suppose. I'll take the binders though. I'm not sure if I'll fly wearing one or just a couple of sports bras instead. It's a long flight and that's already uncomfortable at the best of times.

Quote from: Hughie on May 17, 2017, 10:43:49 PM
Seriously, I swear he still thinks I'm six, even though I'm 40.  

There's your answer: you're 40.

A highly-educated 40-year-old doesn't need to conform to anyone's expectations of how they should present themselves. At 40, you are plenty old enough to have formed your own opinions, so you don't need to give a rat's behind about other people's opinions unless you choose to. And you certainly don't need to kow-tow to other people's expectations! So own who you are, and let other people deal with their own expectations.

Quote from: Hughie on May 17, 2017, 06:42:51 PM
1. How do I deal with my dysphoria in this very traditional gender role type of country... the expectation is to be femme and glamorous, etc ,and go hang out on the beach in a bikini or swim suit (with the wedding party).  I'm reluctantly thinking I'm going to have shave legs and arm pits etc... because it's hot and I'm going to need to wear shorts and short sleeve shirts.  Sorry if that's TMI.   But I refuse to wear dresses etc to 'fit in' and all that.

You're 40 and you're not a local, so you don't have to conform to local expectations. Anyway, that expectation to be femme and glamorous is their expectation for women: as you're not a woman, those expectations have nothing to do with you! So rock some androgynous outfits; wear swimming trunks or shorts with binder & rash vest; and don't shave anything unless it's something you truly want to do. It's your body, not theirs... it need only conform to your expectations.

We trans people often have to lead from the front: we cannot sit back and wait for 'permission' from our families in order to move forward with our transitions; if we did, most of us would never get anywhere! The best way for your family to accept who you are is for you to be who you are. The longer you delay living your own truth, the longer they'l be in denial about who you are.

Quote from: Hughie on May 17, 2017, 06:42:51 PM
2. How do I deal with the relatives on Mom's side who know? And I'm not sure who all knows there, so a little concerned for safety.

Just be yourself! You haven't mentioned which country you're visiting but most European countries have protections for LGBT people. You don't see these people very often, so you can either be very matter-of-fact about your transition; or you can just keep your head down & get through the day. You can also pick a couple of allies amongst the people you've come out to, and use them for support. Or recruit a more senior member of your mother's family to run interference for you. You have nothing to be ashamed of: you should be proud of who you are, and they should be proud to be your family. If some of them aren't, then that reflects poorly on them... not you!

Quote from: Hughie on May 17, 2017, 06:42:51 PM
3. Dealing with airport security?

Depends on the country. I take it your ticket and passport are in the same name, so that should be fine. They'll need to inspect you and your luggage, so be prepared to answer all sorts of questions. You can ask for a private screening if you want one.

I believe you've mentioned elsewhere that you're hoping to be on T soon: T is a restricted drug so you'll have to check the laws at both your point of origin and your destination if you're planning to take any with you.

Quote from: Hughie on May 17, 2017, 10:43:49 PM
I'm nervous about taking the packer with me, so I'm not sure what I'll do about that yet. I wouldn't wear it through security if I did have it... checked luggage I suppose. I'll take the binders though. I'm not sure if I'll fly wearing one or just a couple of sports bras instead. It's a long flight and that's already uncomfortable at the best of times.

Travelling with a packer can be embarrassing however you look at it: we all know what they resemble, and security is going to see it one way or another... either on your person, in your hand luggage, or in your hold luggage. So where would you prefer to be when the embarrassment happens? Packers are medical prostheses and as such you're not required to remove them from your person if you're wearing one. However, you do have to tell security that you're wearing a prosthesis, and as it's in a sensitive area you can request a private room for screening because they may need to look at it. If you choose not to wear it, then it'll be in your luggage and it may be taken out of your luggage during screening or at Customs - which can be even more embarrassing!

As for binding, simply wear loose, comfortable clothing for the long flight - no need for bras or binders unless you specifically want to wear one - and take a change of clothes (plus a binder) in your hand luggage. Then just get changed in the bathroom about an hour before landing.

Cheers FTM Diary - great response below.   I fully agree I'm 40 and it's my own life to live.

Part of the conflict is, as discussed with my counselor last year, is the conflict between individualistic societies (like the US, UK, Canada), vs collectivist societies (Mexico, Italy, Greece, Spain), with the latter putting the needs and desires of the family or community ahead of their own. I'm in a bit of a conflict that although I'm more individualistic, my family is definitely putting the family first.

However, I do live on my own in another city from my family. So that helps, and otherwise independent from them, as you'd expect from this age. I'm close with my Mom, who is struggling for the last year or so to understand what it means that I'm trans. I'm still pre-T. She can't get the idea that gender identity is separate from sexual identity. 'But...if you're attracted to men, why would you do this?'   In my culture of origin, apparently having a man will sort you out, and the idea is to 'market' yourself so that you're chosen, swept off your feet, lol. I never bought into this, even before I figured out I was trans. So, this kind of attitude though is rampant through the relatives I'll be seeing, who I'm really hoping don't get any matchmaking ideas while I'm there. It'd be like a comedy of errors. My plan is to move quickly through the country so that they don't have time to come up with such plots.

I'm going to wait on the T till I am back - through work probation, to avoid any potential difficulties with starting T while abroad, and going through immigration while traveling. Plus the outside chance relatives find it in my stuff. As for the packer, we'll see what I do about that one. I'd have in my checked luggage if I take it. The idea about the binder in the carry-on is great, and changing before landing.

Hey everybody! Just a quick update as I'm headed out on my trip tomorrow for three weeks. I waited to start T once I'm back from my trip, for a number of reasons. I'm taking along my packer in checked baggage, I think. I bind every day, so my binder is coming with me. I ordered another binder but it hasn't arrived yet. I'm keeping the relative time to a minimum while I'm traveling, so I will present however I wish, and I'm not staying with anyone, which would be more awkward. There will be a few flights so I'm trying to keep it easy for airport security and myself.