Once again I got blindsided and dragged into a question and answer session with some ignorant cis people.  About a month ago I met this girl Lisa through my boyfriend's brother. Lisa is a friend of his girlfriend.  She is my age and seemed very nice. She started texting wanting me to hang out with her and do things with her. I went to the mall with her a couple of times and we had fun. She knows that Lucas and I are both trans from his brother's girlfriend. But she never said one word about it. She never mentioned it at all. So I stupidly thought it was not an issue for her. This morning she called and said she was in the neighborhood and wanted me to meet her for breakfast. 

When I got there she had 2 other women with her. She introduced them and it was immediately obvious she had told them I was trans.  They both just gawked at me. They stared at everything. My face, hair, chest, hands, everything. Needles to say I felt like an alien on display.  Finally one of them leaned over and said " so...Lisa tells us you are transgender."  Right then I should have got up and left. But I stupidly hoped just maybe this encounter wouldn't become a trainwreck and maybe they were just curious.  I said yes I was trans. One of them told me I was really pretty and that she would never have known that I was a guy. Then she excused herself and said " I mean that you USED to be a guy."  As if that was less insulting. I told her I was never a "guy" that I was unfortunate in the fact I was born with the wrong genitalia. Of course she had no response to that except an open mouth. Then her friend told me I looked amazing and said " I wish I could afford the surgery to look like that. How much work did you have done and how much did it cost?" I told her I had not had any cosmetic procedures at all. She said " but you had to have to look like that. You're a...I mean you were a guy."  I explained to her that I transitioned very young and was able to prevent most male characteristics.  She said " oh ok. But pretty much all transwomen have a lot of  work done right?"  I told her No, that except for the actual SRS many transwomen had no other surgery and were very pretty. I guess people assume transwomen can't be pretty without plastic surgery.  That if we are pretty it has to be from a surgeon's knife.

The one of them said " well you are really pretty and feminine. Why don't you like guys?" I told her I do like guys and that I had a boyfriend. She said yes she knew I was with Lucas but that she also knew he was trans. I asked her what that had to do with anything.  She said " well he isn't REALLY a guy so I figured you must like girls."  I told her Lucas was REALLY a guy and that there was no difference between him and any other guy except for one physical one. She said yes, but it was the most important difference.  I was getting mad at this point but I thought maybe I could educate this ignorant klewdge just a little bit. I told her to imagine if her boyfriend had an accident or disease and lost his penis. It wouldn't make him less of a man. She said yes it would and that she would leave him if that happened because she "needed dick " to be happy with a guy. At that point I knew it was futile to speak to these fools any further. I left. Lisa was blowing up my phone so I did speak to her. I told her to NEVER contact me again and that the next time she needed entertainment for her friends to hire a clown.

This is exactly why I am stealth.  People are SO ignorant!  They are never going to understand or accept transpeople. It is beyond their intelligence and abilities.  I give up. I will avoid people who know I am trans from this point on.

You had the PERFECT response for her. Don't be stealthy, be who you are; if you don't, then stupid, ignorant people like your ex-friend win. <3

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I can relate ... to how you say you feel ...
I hope you feel ... better ... soon ...

I would guess the BayArea has more "educated CIS-people ..."
than (not just) SouthFlorida ...
So, I am (maybe) fortunate in that being STEALTH ...
is NOT necessarily necessary ... here ... in the BayArea ...

I prefer to be able to talk freely ... about ... anything ...
me, my life ... etc/etc ...
so ... being stealth with acquaintances etc
would be too much work ... for me ...

Awesome response! We are just normal people, not a fun exhibit. Glad you stood up for yourself!

I am sorry  that happened to you. You handled yourself perfectly and she was a jerk for outing you.

I'm going to devil's advocate a little here. Straight society doesn't understand gay and lesbian people well even today, let alone trans people. How they get more clueful is probably by talking with us. Now there's no question that your acquaintance messed up by outing you to her friends without your ok, however it seems to me like an error of ignorance, not malice.

I'm not saying you're wrong, your boundaries were pushed in some clearly annoying as well as some more subtle ways and perhaps if you explained how some of those things were insulting you'd find they'd be ok in the future. Not that I'd be holding my breath on that - there have been some straight women I've met who clearly see themselves as lgbt friendly and yet impress me in their unerring ability to vocalize annoying stereotypes.

Good luck IAC.

The question cis people don't ask themselves is, would I ask these questions or ones like them of anyone? I know they're curious, but they should be able to filter themselves. Maybe we should have documentation about being trans and what's appropriate and give it to people like them and tell them to read it and then we can talk.


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Oh, Cimara, I am so sorry to hear this.  Your former 'friend' is a Compleat Jerk.  Treating you as an object of entertainment for two persons who appear to have all the social empathy of a small brick is pretty bad.  And somehow she thought it was OK to spring this Out-Fest on you?  Wow.

Being objectified is horrible and that is all this person did. I get so fed up with hearing these jerks ask their ignorant questions. I know we are a small part of the entire population but most people have seen and read enough stuff to know what is appropriate .

I went to a Psychiatric Nurses Reunion...but even there I was asked about surgery and I told them sure I am happy to talk about it so long as they are willing to talk about their "lady bits" as well as mine. Funny enough no one wanted the answer to any further intrusive questions.

Well done in the way you handled it.

The conversation you describe could be like a seminar of what not to say to a trans person. You did handle it with class. Your friend was not a friend as you said. I am around an older group of people. They are less likely to do this type of thing and more likely to show their awkwardness by silence. For me, being trans goes unspoken for anyone who might be an acquaintance and not a friend.
Sadie, I do educate people, but it is because I want to. It doesn't sound like Cimara wanted to play that role, and I don't blame her. Cimara, I hope you don't face this again. It sucks how people don't understand but that is our society.
Moni

I do not have a problem with educating people if they are respectful and ask at least slightly intelligent questions. However that has not been the case thus far. I get annoyed with the fact people think it is perfectly fine to ask a transperson questions they would NEVER ask anyone else under any circumstances.  In my experience guys have been more fascinated than curious like women are. They still ask inappropriate questions but in my experience they seem to only care about 2 things. Are your boobs implants and do you still have a dick. Women on the other hand ask endless stupid questions. I especially hate invalidation in the guise of compliments. "You are beautiful.  It must have taken a lot of surgery."  " I love your hair. Is it a wig or extensions?"  " You sound so feminine. You must have had that voice surgery I heard they could do now."  " you have very pretty hands. I didn't know they had surgery for hands."

They act like any attractive feature you  have must be fake or surgically created. I believe much of the way women treat us stems from their own insecurity and petty jealousy.  And if someone finds out Lucas and I are both trans the questions become extremely inappropriate and sexual. They want to know who does what with whom, etc. And much to my surprise it seems to be CIS females who are more unaccepting of transmen. I am not at all ashamed of being trans nor am I at all ashamed of the fact my boyfriend is a transman. But because of the astounding ignorance people i choose not to disclose these facts if I do not have to.

"I do not have a problem with educating people if they are respectful and ask at least slightly intelligent questions"

I feel exactly the same way but when it turns to them asking stupid questions or treating us like a joke it's time for me to get up and leave. They really think we all need surgery to look good lol that in itself shows how stupid they are. Glad you got up to walk away and told that other person not to contact you again. It's like she set you up to be their object for ignorance and amusement. I have been through this type of situation on a number of occasions and it's why i don't tell ppl im trans except for those extremely close to me. It is them projecting their insecurities, ppl only do crap like this to attempt to invalidate you and normally it's because they think you are a threat. You go girl stay beautiful and let them stay mad.

Quote from: SadieBlake on June 03, 2017, 05:28:27 PM
I'm going to devil's advocate a little here. Straight society doesn't understand gay and lesbian people well even today, let alone trans people. How they get more clueful is probably by talking with us. Now there's no question that your acquaintance messed up by outing you to her friends without your ok, however it seems to me like an error of ignorance, not malice.

I'm not saying you're wrong, your boundaries were pushed in some clearly annoying as well as some more subtle ways and perhaps if you explained how some of those things were insulting you'd find they'd be ok in the future. Not that I'd be holding my breath on that - there have been some straight women I've met who clearly see themselves as lgbt friendly and yet impress me in their unerring ability to vocalize annoying stereotypes.

Good luck IAC.

Ditto from me too.
Trans is the new black.  Ask any black person and they will have a similar story.  Where well-meaning white folks tried to show off their lack of prejudice by socializing with them with their friends.  Sometimes or maybe many times it does not go well, as it went with you.  It is a function of "educating" or more precisely, de-prejudicing the greater population.  One day soon, for the passing, if not now, you will hear: "I have a trans friend". UGH.  So we must suffer the slights.  Inform the un-informed.  And at least try to open the cis-world to what we are going through. But that does not mean you have to relive it every time some cis-friend wishes to show you off to prove their cred. 
We must individually, get out narrative set.  Our 5 minute elevator speech.  Pat answer to dumb questions.  Be ready to clarify, explain as clearly as possible and not be offended by ignorance.  Just say straight forwardly that that is not how you process and explain.  Your life experience and inclinations are different than mine so please preface that this is your experience and we all walk a different path.   So when I am at the table maybe, just maybe they are open to my point of view and life experience. 
We have an opportunity.  The arch of history say we are not in as bad a situation as in the past.  At least there is some hope for us.  Read up on trans over history.  Baby, we got it good.  And we got it better than many blacks.  Do it for the young.  We are obliged to try to help easy their path.

It seems she was extremely insensitive but, at the risk of being the devil's advocate, it seems like it didn't come from a place of malice. If it did and they were genuinely trying to make you feel bad I would be extremely upset as well. But if it didn't I would try to brush it off and just educate them patiently. I mean after all, you've had all your life to learn what being trans means, what to do and what not to do, while they were only in contact with the situation for the first time when this girl met you a couple of weeks ago.

And yeah it's not our job to educate everyone but it also kinda is if we want the world to understand us.


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Quote from: JulieOnHerWay on June 03, 2017, 11:59:48 PM
Ditto from me too.
Trans is the new black.  Ask any black person and they will have a similar story.  Where well-meaning white folks tried to show off their lack of prejudice by socializing with them with their friends.  Sometimes or maybe many times it does not go well, as it went with you.  It is a function of "educating" or more precisely, de-prejudicing the greater population.  One day soon, for the passing, if not now, you will hear: "I have a trans friend". UGH.  So we must suffer the slights.  Inform the un-informed.  And at least try to open the cis-world to what we are going through. But that does not mean you have to relive it every time some cis-friend wishes to show you off to prove their cred. 
We must individually, get out narrative set.  Our 5 minute elevator speech.  Pat answer to dumb questions.  Be ready to clarify, explain as clearly as possible and not be offended by ignorance.  Just say straight forwardly that that is not how you process and explain.  Your life experience and inclinations are different than mine so please preface that this is your experience and we all walk a different path.   So when I am at the table maybe, just maybe they are open to my point of view and life experience. 
We have an opportunity.  The arch of history say we are not in as bad a situation as in the past.  At least there is some hope for us.  Read up on trans over history.  Baby, we got it good.  And we got it better than many blacks.  Do it for the young.  We are obliged to try to help easy their path.

Not the best comparison black vs trans. Can't hide race, but can hide being trans, but that has consequences too, which are pretty bad. That said, unless you are the minority in question, you can't fully understand the experience. I think that instead of being an object of division, the goal should be acceptance that we're all just another expression of being human. Unfortunately, tribal thinking is reinforced socially and biologically. It's going to take a long time to alter that.


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This is why I don't have friends for the ones I thought were friends became non friends through ignorance of thinking that because I looked girly didn't mean I was girly. In my life trust is important and if I don't trust you or get a bad vibe I tend too stay away. I have my wife,son and my dog what else could I want.

Quote from: Cimara on June 03, 2017, 12:34:55 PM
...Finally one of them leaned over and said " so...Lisa tells us you are transgender."  ...

And that right there is where I would have excused myself.  I've no time for ignorance like that.  You would still have been educating them if you left...it would have taught Lisa that what she did was wholly inappropriate and hurtful to you because you left.  If she didn't learn from that, then she would not learn from you going through the rest of the situation.  We owe ignorant people nothing.

Wow, all I can say is you have far more patience than I. I probably would have stuck around initially, but after the second time of being told I am/used to be a guy, I'd be gone. Sorry to hear you had to deal with this but it sounds like you handled it extremely well.

You did the right thing by walking away. I find most people want an "explanation", but only so they can rebut and argue. For that reason, I will not try to educate. Like most women, I hold grudges. It is healthy and normal, as long as I do not act on them.
There is no sense in going stealth, since you seem to pass quite well. You happiness is more important to you than putting on a disguise.

Besides people who have known me "before," no person that I pass on the street ever has a clue that I am transgender.
I feel like if there's someone new and cool that I meet that I intuitively feel I could reveal this secret to, then I would muster up the confidence and tell them.
In your case though, it sounded as if it was something that caught you off guard. I feel as though you handled it the right way by leaving the situation as you were blindsided as you said.
I think that sometimes you just kind of live and learn, which is exactly what happened here.