Hey,

So my city just had Pride Week, and I socialized more than usual.  I spent a lot of time with other trans-identified friends, but also a decent amount of time around cis-identified LGB friends...some of whom brought their straight cis woman friends around with them. 

None of these things are a problem, they're all great!  The problem is...the *please explain your gender it's sooooo confusing and comfort me while I make nervous jokes* game is particularly strong among the cis straight women.  Like, drove me to tears on Sunday afternoon.  I was correcting two women in particular, who kept misgendering myself and another person in my main friend group. It kinda hurts worse when it's directed at others, and I hated being unable to make it stop.

Beyond saying, "nope, please don't say that, it's hurtful" for the seventeenth time, after running through a more detailed explanation at the onset, what do y'all recommend I do?  I am very wary as my presentation becomes more masculine of how I carry and present anger or hurt, and I don't want to be a masculine person who shames or frightens women who don't seem to be particularly malicious, just uneducated and invasive. 

Any suggestions on things to say, or mental exercises to cope?  Do I use a joke, or a look, or a phrase? Live in a bubble like a hamster?  How can I assert a basic need for myself and others without being toxic, particularly when talking to women?   I missed a friend's guitar performance on Sunday because I felt super low after a few hours of this and had to get myself home so I wouldn't ruin anybody else's good time.

Much Love,
Z

Use a look followed by a phrase.  I would avoid the joke to defray any indication that you are ok with it.  Women are attuned to emotions enough to see from a disapproving look that it means something to you, and you will substantiate that with a phrase that follows.  As for the phrase to use, well, I don't know.  lol  ...going to be specific to the crowd, situation, place, etc.

So these women are friends of a friend? Maybe your friend would know how to get through to them?

In general, if you politely say it repeatedly and it doesn't work, it might be time to get more serious (not rude or threatening but like... "I am not joking, you're making us uncomfortable") or leave the situation, i guess

Yeah, leaving might be a necessary step.  I tend to overestimate my own assertiveness/shy on the side of caution, but it's getting old.  The friend is not the best about it himself--he doesn't add commentary, but still makes pretty constant mistakes.  Eck.  *considers that Hamsters do not have to pay rent, and the Hamster bubble option might be OK.*

Thanks for your replies!

Wear a shirt with giant letters that says "HE/HIM" and if they obliviously miss that do a very dramatic display of a point in the direction of the t-shirt

I would recommend you try not to worry excessively about external validation among people you are probably not going to see again.

If there are people you must spend repeated time with then worry about it - and if you are then they will get used to what you tell them - but friends of friends you might not? A waste of energy worrying what they think.

I get consistently mammed so its not an issue for me.. my spouse though (post op m2f) is 50/50.  Her approach is 'screw it' just ignore if they him or her, and she just be's herself.  She is a LOT stronger than me in this.. I go to pieces if I even think someone is avoiding gendering me.. and I get folks staring at me all the time for my height (over 6'2).

This morning I had a little 5 year old girl in Ihop stare at me then blurt out "She's HUGE!"... I responded "Yes I am tall", with a smile.  Her mother was apologetic but friendly.  But at least this time it wasn't the fish gaping stare I usually get.

If you can just accept whatever they choose and move on, this seems to work for my spouse.  I think it takes amazing fortitude myself though.

I think I'm going to combine multiple strains of advice, here: put an obnoxiously large pronoun patch on my vest, communicate clearly and seriously my preference when it feels necessary, brush it off when it doesn't, and practice raising an eyebrow and wandering off if I've had enough.  I think it will get easier with time, even if people do continue to misgender me, I'm just kinda sensitive about it right now: lots going on with early transition stuff.  Thanks for your kind words and advice, everyone. :-)

That's awful. I'm sorry that happened to you. The only people who have misgendered me were people who knew me as Julian. I gave them 2 chances. After they misgendered me I corrected them. If they did it more than twice I pretty much knew they were trying to be cute so they got totally ignored from that point on. I refused to acknowledge them or speak to them at all. I'm sorry but to me the perceived gender thing is BS. AFTER you tell someone more than once the pronouns/name you go by to keep misgendering you is deliberate and that person is a bitch/dick and are doing it to be mean or try to shame you. And I would totally not tolerate it at all from someone you just met. They have never known you as anything other than what you present. It doesn't MATTER if you don't pass. If you TELL someone your preferred pronouns and they still keep misgendering you its deliberate disrespect and you need to kick them to the curb. And trying to make it seem like a joke is STILL disrespect.  Don't tolerate it from anyone. You deserve better people around you.

Quote from: EnbyGuy on June 17, 2017, 02:07:57 PM
I think I'm going to combine multiple strains of advice, here: put an obnoxiously large pronoun patch on my vest, communicate clearly and seriously my preference when it feels necessary, brush it off when it doesn't, and practice raising an eyebrow and wandering off if I've had enough.  I think it will get easier with time, even if people do continue to misgender me, I'm just kinda sensitive about it right now: lots going on with early transition stuff.  Thanks for your kind words and advice, everyone. :-)

Sorry I'm a bit late to the game.

I usually do a forceful thumb pointing to myself, along with a correct version of whatever wrong pronoun was used.  Saying "he!", "him!" or "his!" while looking right at the misgenderer (is that a word?) usually gets the point across that you're not finding their "joke" funny.

I couldn't "wander away" like you do.  I'd not want them to repeat it.  If anything I'd still make the thumbpointing correction, frown and THEN walk away.  I'm sure it would get the point across, especially if its done in a group of people that were all involved in the conversation up until that point.

Sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind...especially if its being kind to yourself.  Your feelings matter too.

Deliberate misgendering, is no laughing/joking matter.  It can (and sometimes is) used as a sign of disrespect for you as a trans-person.  Its demeaning. 

I don't blame you for becoming upset .  *brohug*

Ryuichi

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Quote from: Ryuichi13 on June 17, 2017, 02:54:01 PM
I usually do a forceful thumb pointing to myself, along with a correct version of whatever wrong pronoun was used.  Saying "he!", "him!" or "his!" while looking right at the misgenderer (is that a word?) usually gets the point across that you're not finding their "joke" funny.

^ I've actually been doing this more often since I first posted, and it seems to work most of the time...I realized I would do it whenever my other trans-identified friends were misgendered, but not for myself, which was creating unnecessary extra stress.  Shame is real, even if it's not a part of the way that I see myself or the world, it just rubs off when other people use language that indicates that your need for basic acknowledgement is super burdensome.  Becoming aware of the way that the transphobia around you affects the way you see yourself is such a process.

Thanks for the cyberhug! *grin*