Am I missing something or have we not pretty much laid waste to Iraq, over a 17 year period now causing up to 1/4 million deaths, without being all that upset about it, save a few hippies out in Cali that no one is listening to anyway?  Do we not have the highest murder rate in the world?  Are we not constantly moving thermonuclear weapons around the world as a routine matter, and does the president not have a guy right there with him at all times with the launch codes 'just in case'?   Matter of fact, are we not the only people to have used them, not once, but twice?  Do we not spend more than any other nation in the world on our military?  I think we spend more on our military that most of the rest of the world combined.  Does the United States not have a military presence in over 120 different countries?

And the end goal of war is not peace, its piece.  We want a piece of your oil, a piece of your resources...

This really doesn't need to turn into a war debate. War is wrong, yes, but it does bring change and good things sometimes.

War is the just the meta version of violence, where hitting girls is the micro version.  The question is the same.

DOES MIGHT MAKE RIGHT?  Do the ends justify the means?  Is meeting violence with more violence a road to peace? 

In the meta, as in the micro I think the answer is the same: violence is the last resort of a rational person, and the first resort of the moron.  (note: substitute 'nation' for 'person' in the meta)

Quote from: tekla on January 08, 2008, 12:34:47 PM
And the end goal of war is not peace, its piece.  We want a piece of your oil, a piece of your resources...

I cannot disagree with you more.

If it were about money, then we'd be in a lot more countries that were a lot more economically beneficial, like the countries in africa that had diamond mines, or plowing through South America for different metal ores.  It's a bunch of bull->-bleeped-<-, the USA has small occupations all over the world for medical research and diplomacy.  If we're going to send our citizens there to vacation and go oggle eyed over everything outside their country, we need to be able to pull them out of they get a stolen Visa, or if some terrorist attack breaks out.

If anyone doesn't like being an American, and feel the need to slander this country and blindly follow the highly liberal, traitorous media, then they need to get out.

Posted on: January 08, 2008, 09:33:50 PM

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Quote from: tekla on January 08, 2008, 06:05:55 PM
In the meta, as in the micro I think the answer is the same: violence is the last resort of a rational person, and the first resort of the moron.  (note: substitute 'nation' for 'person' in the meta)

And that's very wise, I couldn't agree more.

Well we're half way there then.

But, as Smedley Butler (look him up, great stuff) once said, 'the flag follows the dollar, and the soliders follow the flag.'  As one of the very, very few two time Congressional Medal of Honor winners, and a general in the USMC, he kind of knew.

If a girl somehow managed to penetrate my amazingly high tolerance level with enough antagonism to make me jack slap her, she would for sure deserve it. 

I got bullied a lot because I was girlie Why do you want to hit girls.    I never became what I am because of bullies I was afraid to express myself. SHAME ON YOU.

Quote from: Cindi Jones on November 27, 2007, 02:23:28 AM

Quote from: Kristi on November 17, 2007, 10:20:51 PM
I remember being beaten up as a child, wondering why I couldn't be a girl so everything would be OK.

Kristi

Oh Kristi... your words just released some long lost memories... a flood of emotion and tears.  I had completely forgotten those times.  I felt the same way.  I was beaten many times when I was young.  I can't deal with this right now.  I'm going to log off and find a warm blanket, soft light, and some music for some good cry time.

Cindi

I feel you there...same happened to me. I don't remember most incidents, they are repressed memories now. I can remember the name, age, and lots of details about said bullies, but not the actual events.

I got hit mostly by boys, though a girl really got me out of my indifference one time. I turned around, held her at her collar, and just stayed that way, and let her go after a minute or so (she was actually taller than me, and larger - this was in 9th grade). I never hit or fought anyone. I defended myself with...well, nails, teeth and running away. Nails and teeth was when I felt it was a life/death deal...and it got me nicknamed 'cat' for a year or two in elementary (5th and 6th grade). I'm thankful I never got broken bones or serious bruises.

I'm against all violence from anyone to anyone else.

If the rule is only "Guys don't hit girls" some will choose to take advantage of the loophole and men who can't or won't defend themselves will lose, sometimes be arrested, for not defending themselves...

I think the rule "don't hit girls" generally starts at around puberty. Before that, there's not much physical difference between the sexes, and there are as many girl bullies as there are boys. It's not fair that little boys get yelled at for defending themselves against girls, especially if it's an older or bigger girl against a younger boy. Even older kids or grown men can be victims of violence, especially since you don't have to be bigger than someone to abuse them. (A lot of female victims of violence are bullied by husbands who aren't even bigger than they are - it's more of a power thing.) Husband abuse does occur, though I guess it's harder for a guy to bring himself to report it. So, really, no one should commit violence against anyone, and everyone has the right to defend themselves, whatever their sex.

Because most women cannot beat a man one-on-one in a fight and it's up to the man to exercise restraint. Muscle mass makes the difference.

I'll admit, I play the punch buggy game with my friends.  I was with my friend Sam and she kept getting me on the bus because she had the window seat and I couldn't see out.  So went to where we needed to go and came back and waited for the bus again.  While we were waiting I saw a beetle drive around the corner.  I got really excited and got her with a punch buggy right in the arm.  In my excitement I hit her a little harder than I meant to.

Then a few days later we were walking on the sidewalk and another beetle drives by.  She hit me really hard and I wasn't even paying attention.  But yeah, the whole muscle mass thing definitely makes a difference.  Whereas I didn't even try to hit her very hard and accidentally did, I think she intentionally tried to hit me but it only startled me. 

But my line of reasoning is I won't start a fight but I'll sure as heck finish it if I need to regardless of who started it.

I remember learning the "Guys don't hit girls" rule in early elementary school back in the 1960's.  At first you didn't do it because of the 'rules'.  Then you didn't do it because you were considered a coward or worse.

Call it a spinoff of the 'protect the weaker sex' mentality that existed at the time.

Personally I prefer the "Don't hit anybody" mentality, both physically and emotionally. 

If you are the one who hits first, with intent, you are a bully.  This includes 'hitting' with insults, lies and other emotional hits.

At the same time, you do have the right to defend yourself.

Quote from: soldierjane on February 20, 2008, 10:39:56 AM
Because most women cannot beat a man one-on-one in a fight and it's up to the man to exercise restraint. Muscle mass makes the difference.

bone structure, wieght, hieght(sort of), knuckle size and arm lenght too