Hello all,

I'm just expressing my thoughts and point of view here and also welcome yours. I've spoken to several people, and have read so much on what it means to be transgender, that I feel pretty confident I have a decent understanding of what it means, although I learn more everyday. I also understand and respect that everyone's journey is different.

Something I just wanted to shed some light on, just from my own experience, is that often people say to the spouse or significant other, that they are the same person even though they are transitioning and you aren't actually losing them, they are just being more themselves. Although this is true, I have gone through periods, especially in the beginning, where I feel I am losing this person that I love so much, and to be honest, I have periods of anxiety where I still feel like that. Nothing is familiar anymore. The same person, the same soul exists inside this person, but, most prominently, they look different, they smell different, the way they touch me while making love is different....then I have to be sensitive and understanding, because she was always my husband/he/him...now I must remember she is now my wife/she/her....it kinda jerks your mind around a bit especially when they haven't fully come out and aren't living their life 100% as a woman yet.

So, we are mourning to a certain extent...I am anyway....I am mourning what was, because now it will never be the same....I doubt certain memories while reminiscing and it makes me sad...but I am also aware and hopeful we will make new ones.
I have expressed and reassured my wife several times that I do not care how she identifies as a person...I love her no matter what, and that the vows I made to her the day we got married "For better or worse...until death do us part..." still apply here, especially now....not that this is the "For worse" because it is most definitely not. I love my wife and I want her to be happy and feel fulfilled with her life in all aspects....
To get back to my main point in the previous paragraph, while I love my wife no matter what, these feelings of mine are so very complex, much like hers....but it doesn't mean that I love her any less...but I still have doubts...Like, what if her sexuality changes?...stupid anxiety of mine....grr... I know the best thing is to communicate, but sometimes I feel if I communicate these doubts they will pushed onto her and cause her to have doubts, which is the last thing I want to do.

I guess what I really want to say is that transition is a change not only for the person who is going through the transition, but it is a huge change for the s/o too....our feelings are complex, and sometimes difficult to put into words. We aren't perfect, and we can be a bit selfish by clinging onto the past, but as much as you need our patience and understanding, we need yours as well.

Ahhh, kind of all over the place here, lol! Sorry for that...just wanted to get some feelings and thoughts out. Hope you all have a GREAT day!

xoxo
Dawn <3


P.S. I love you baby...Always & Forever  <3

Hi Dawn!
Thank you for writing this. Really. I am going through a situation similar to your wife's. I married as a man, with a woman and we were blessed with two beautiful sons. They all accept my transition, but sometimes I ask myself what's really going in their mind. They must be nuts to accept all this... 😊 I'm not full-time yet and for now I only came out to them, my parents and my doctor. They now always call me Sarah, they now prefer to see me dressed as a woman and seem to genuinely respect me and love me. In fact, I feel that my wife has never been so loving since our marriage, but again, my own feelings are changed.
I agree with you. If there is such a thing as a "soul", one can argue that the "soul" remains unchanged, despite the physical changes. As does history - good moments and bad moments are all engraved in our timeline forever.
But you are right: there ARE profound changes. I know the way I touch her is different... The way I look at her is different... My smell and the consistency of my skin when she caresses me are different. But like you, we feel that the love, true love, is still there. Against all odds, I would dare to say that our love has never been so deep, so complete.
Like me, your wife is very lucky to have a wife who still loves her, who is capable of seeing past what her eyes show her. I am sure that, like me, your wife also sometimes feel anxious. Even if she doesn't show it, she will always feel that this is too good to be true. Sometimes, she will think that, somehow, one day, you will "wake up" and leave her. She will be careful not to upset you... I believe you truly, genuinely love her and will never ever leave her. And you have no idea of how brave that is. Your wife will always feel the most lucky person on Earth. 😊

The old "him" is fading away. A little bit of "him" will forever remain, but I think that it is best to try not to focus too much on the "loss". Instead, focus on celebrating the rebirth. I love to think that you don't mourn a caterpillar when it metamorphoses into a butterfly. Despite the enormous changes, fundamentally it still is the same living creature. But more beautiful and with wings and freedom to fly!

With much empathy,

Big hug, Sarah

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

Yeah, it's something all transgender people and their long-time significant others face.

I discovered a few years ago that I'm a gender fluid, nonbinary, partial transmale. Then my ex-husband discovered that he's a nonbinary transwoman, identifying as neither male nor female, but wanting to dress like a female, take hormones, but no operations.

He wants us to get back together, but even though we got along great in most areas when married, he had some serious character deficits that transitioning won't fix. That alone should forever delete him from reconsideration.

He claims he's "changed" and wants to give it a try. But I have my own list of reservations, besides those of his scary character.

Despite my strong male nature, my female mode has definite requirements in a relationship.

I know from observation that is true with most typical cisfemales as well.

I want a partner who can provide well, makes my family proud, can protect me, someone to raise my social status, someone to make my girlfriends envy me, someone physically fit, someone who knows how to pamper me.

That was my ex. He is a 6' 1" ex-Navy pilot, ex-airline pilot, has a Masters in engineering, and helped design the B-2 bomber. He looks like an escapee from a male Las Vegas strip show-pure muscle, and is actually licensed in foot and face massage. He used to bring me flowers, rub my feet for two hours each night, and we were constantly out hiking, camping, driving and trail riding with our Walking Horses, and traveling the world. Kind of like the "perfect" husband.

Now what? If he starts running around in women's clothing, and can't pass, then there goes all the social status, protection, and family/social approval. I would constantly be subject to ridicule and possible attack if seen as his romantic partner.

Women typically run their relationships..decide where the couple lives, what they eat, where they go on vacation, etc., and men just hand over their pay checks and say, "Yes, Dear." They spend most of their spare money and time making their wives happy. If the men fail to do so, the wives often move on.
So, if there are two women, what then?

Will his/her money only go to buying his/her own clothing, jewelry, and operations? Will his/her spare time go to running around with other transgender friends and attending their events? Will he/she dress like a hooker and embarrass me? Will he/she want to be the center of attention now, and expect me to buy him/her gifts, pay the bills, and protect him/her?
If so, what would be the advantage to having a relationship with him/her? Besides the footrubs, of course.

I'm a tiny, petite, feminine-looking person, not suitable for being his/her bodyguard, and I certainly have zero interest in financially supporting him/her.

Dunno.

Quote from: Sarah.VanDistel on June 20, 2017, 05:08:48 AM
Hi Dawn!
Thank you for writing this. Really. I am going through a situation similar to your wife's. I married as a man, with a woman and we were blessed with two beautiful sons. They all accept my transition, but sometimes I ask myself what's really going in their mind. They must be nuts to accept all this... 😊 I'm not full-time yet and for now I only came out to them, my parents and my doctor. They now always call me Sarah, they now prefer to see me dressed as a woman and seem to genuinely respect me and love me. In fact, I feel that my wife has never been so loving since our marriage, but again, my own feelings are changed.
I agree with you. If there is such a thing as a "soul", one can argue that the "soul" remains unchanged, despite the physical changes. As does history - good moments and bad moments are all engraved in our timeline forever.
But you are right: there ARE profound changes. I know the way I touch her is different... The way I look at her is different... My smell and the consistency of my skin when she caresses me are different. But like you, we feel that the love, true love, is still there. Against all odds, I would dare to say that our love has never been so deep, so complete.
Like me, your wife is very lucky to have a wife who still loves her, who is capable of seeing past what her eyes show her. I am sure that, like me, your wife also sometimes feel anxious. Even if she doesn't show it, she will always feel that this is too good to be true. Sometimes, she will think that, somehow, one day, you will "wake up" and leave her. She will be careful not to upset you... I believe you truly, genuinely love her and will never ever leave her. And you have no idea of how brave that is. Your wife will always feel the most lucky person on Earth. 😊

The old "him" is fading away. A little bit of "him" will forever remain, but I think that it is best to try not to focus too much on the "loss". Instead, focus on celebrating the rebirth. I love to think that you don't mourn a caterpillar when it metamorphoses into a butterfly. Despite the enormous changes, fundamentally it still is the same living creature. But more beautiful and with wings and freedom to fly!

With much empathy,

Big hug, Sarah

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

Thank you so much for your reply Sarah!! It really touched my heart and brought me some new insight as well!
xoxo Thank you! 

Dawn, you are an awesome woman. I have been trying to put myself into your shoes, and that of my partner, to try to see my transitioning from their perspective. It won't be easy. Sure there is a kind of loss which is genuine, while at the same time there is a potential for positive gain.

So far ( pre T for me), my partner is supportive, but she has expressed some concerns. Will I change? Will I be less wonderful ( , yeah, she loves me ) , I try to reassure her that I won't be different, but how do I really know? I don't. I'm sure that my character won't change, just my appearance, maybe my demeanour ( not for worse, I hope!), but not the fundamental person I am. I would mourn that too. I love who I am ( not necessarily the body I am in, though).

Dawn, I wish you both the best. I'm hopeful it will work out for you both. Same, but different, maybe better.

Hay ladies my wife runs a support group on face book for the partners of trangender people where they can safely discuss issues and get opinions

https://www.facebook.com/groups/999950896754265/

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Quote from: Raell on June 20, 2017, 05:13:30 AM
Yeah, it's something all transgender people and their long-time significant others face.

I discovered a few years ago that I'm a gender fluid, nonbinary, partial transmale. Then my ex-husband discovered that he's a nonbinary transwoman, identifying as neither male nor female, but wanting to dress like a female, take hormones, but no operations.

He wants us to get back together, but even though we got along great in most areas when married, he had some serious character deficits that transitioning won't fix. That alone should forever delete him from reconsideration.

He claims he's "changed" and wants to give it a try. But I have my own list of reservations, besides those of his scary character.

Despite my strong male nature, my female mode has definite requirements in a relationship.

I know from observation that is true with most typical cisfemales as well.

I want a partner who can provide well, makes my family proud, can protect me, someone to raise my social status, someone to make my girlfriends envy me, someone physically fit, someone who knows how to pamper me.

That was my ex. He is a 6' 1" ex-Navy pilot, ex-airline pilot, has a Masters in engineering, and helped design the B-2 bomber. He looks like an escapee from a male Las Vegas strip show-pure muscle, and is actually licensed in foot and face massage. He used to bring me flowers, rub my feet for two hours each night, and we were constantly out hiking, camping, driving and trail riding with our Walking Horses, and traveling the world. Kind of like the "perfect" husband.

Now what? If he starts running around in women's clothing, and can't pass, then there goes all the social status, protection, and family/social approval. I would constantly be subject to ridicule and possible attack if seen as his romantic partner.

Women typically run their relationships..decide where the couple lives, what they eat, where they go on vacation, etc., and men just hand over their pay checks and say, "Yes, Dear." They spend most of their spare money and time making their wives happy. If the men fail to do so, the wives often move on.
So, if there are two women, what then?

Will his/her money only go to buying his/her own clothing, jewelry, and operations? Will his/her spare time go to running around with other transgender friends and attending their events? Will he/she dress like a hooker and embarrass me? Will he/she want to be the center of attention now, and expect me to buy him/her gifts, pay the bills, and protect him/her?
If so, what would be the advantage to having a relationship with him/her? Besides the footrubs, of course.

I'm a tiny, petite, feminine-looking person, not suitable for being his/her bodyguard, and I certainly have zero interest in financially supporting him/her.

Dunno.

Someone supported you and your quirks and provided you with a dream lifestyle. Someone served this country well, b52 is ancient, so you guys must be around for a long time. And you don't want to 'give him a chance'?

You know you better don't. You don't deserve him/her. Sorry for being not PC

Dawn, that was a beautiful post.  We get caught up in our own transition issues and it can be easy to forget that our spouses are going through a transition too.

I am amazed every day that my wife chose to stick with me.  Women like you and her are role models of courage and committment.  It has got to be tough to watch your spouse go through the changes we do and become apparently another person (though not really), and to contemplate the social changes that will accompany that transition.

I would encourage you to talk with other significant others for the support that you deserve. 

Dawn, I think its wonderful that you have been able to adjust to the changes the relationship undergoes. Things do change. Primarily expectations. Both what you expect based on what you knew of the old "him" and for her, letting her wants be seen openly by you. Its hard, very very hard.

I am about 9 months out from when I opened up to my wife about my feelings. I knew the word transgender but really didn't know if that applied to me exactly. After she listened to my stuttering explanation of myself, she just said, "you're trans". It has not been an easy path for us. I try to consider her feelings at all times. Even so I cannot predict how she will feel any given day. She feels loss of "him". She thought she married a man. Funny though no matter how hard I conciously tried I could never figure out how to be what she expected a man to be. How to act, how to think, how to be sexual in a way she expected. Prior to my revelation, I just could not understand "why" she thought how I was "supposed" to act was how all men acted. I would think to myself that all men don't act that way because I don't. But I would try to put on the manly act to try to fix our relationship. So many issues we had over our decade of marriage now seem to make sense to me, sometimes she sees it too. Then she becomes angry at me for "hiding" or just "lying" about who I am inside. We go back and forth still like a see saw. I can understand why to her, I am different. I did the most common thing for a MTF. That is to avoid anything that might appear feminine my whole life for fear someone would see my dark shame of who I was. Now I am coming out of this shell and letting my emotions be visible. I behave in ways that are very different than what she saw before because I am not measuring my every movement. I am simply letting myself be a natural me.

That inner natural being is what most wives of MTF's don't understand. Even when we try to be open, our expectations are based on the overall social norms. The cis-wife learns what to expect from a man, and from the man she married. When that man quits pretending everything in her reality changes around her. I don't blame my wife for her feelings. I don't blame her for anger or telling me she wanted a divorce. But then the see saw flipped. Now we are ok, but I now fear for how long. Her processing my changes is breaking my heart every time we go back the other way. I know now that I have always had a "normal" female emotional integrated brain. I always figured all guys were like me and just pretended not to be emotionally hurt easily. Getting upset required great control because even anger would result in the eyes trying to tear up, the throat getting tight. I didn't realize most men actually rarely feel strongly enough to reach tears. I suppose in our past relationship as husband and wife that explains why it seemed acceptable for her to say some things to me which were completely unacceptable had I said them to her. Men apparently just shrug off women's emotions and things they say in anger easily. They just move on and appologise later just to return the peace. They do not feel anxiety when their wives speak in anger because they do not feel the hurt of those comments. I however always did. It always put a sense of dread, fear, anxiety like it was the end of our relationship. But it bothered me to no end how I was not allowed by social expectations to have such strong response feelings. To put it plainly, it sucks being stuck in a mans role when you are not a man inside.

I love her more than anything aside from our daughters, but even though today, yesterday we are ok again, I am feeling myself slip further away from her into a protective state. I just know the see saw will flip again soon and I dread it so much.

Dawn you bring up a really good point.  Many of us and even the mental health professionals as well will talk about how it's the same person, just in a different package.  And while to a very large extent this is true, it also discounts many of the things that we come to know and love about each other that do change when a spouse transitions.  There's a lot of little things about personality traits, mannerisms, etc. that will change in a person who is transitioning. Additionally the relationship between the two spouses, should they stay together, will take on a new dynamic simply from the fact (in this case) a man and woman relationship becomes a woman and woman relationship.

The mourning you've described is very real for many spouses. Some handle it better than others.  Your outlook is very positive and mature, but not all spouses can see the world the way you do.  And that's OK and it's totally valid in either case.  My wife for instance has struggled mightily with the mourning process.  At this point she still looks at me as two different people completely.  The husband she lost and the witch (she has used a slightly different term) that took him away. She's getting better now however and is starting to integrate the two, but for her it's taking time and it's been very painful for both of us.  Our outlook, IMO, is still pretty positive given the recent steps she's taken.  She's in therapy and her therapist is really driving her hard now to come to terms with what is happening and face it head on.  It's working.

In the end, we are the same people after transition.  We will always be that person that shared all those moments, made all those memories and most of all, treated our spouses the way we did (whether good or bad).  Sure that may change some, but people change as they age anyway so it's really not as drastic as many initially fear.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.  Your spouse has a great partner in you and I hope you can continue to walk this journey together.  Stay strong and remember to take care of yourself too.  That mourning process as you well know, is not easy but  it is necessary.  Your attitude really is refreshing and I believe will make it an easier process for both of you.

Hi Dawn,
   I am Monica. For context, I am full time one year and a week away from gender surgery. My wife (I prefer the term partner) and I are together, stronger than ever. One thing above all should not change in your relationship, mutual respect. There is generally a period of introspection when a trans person comes out. Especially if they have hidden a long time. It may seem to the outsider that this is very selfish. The trans person has to manage this so they are considerate of how loved ones feel. To make a change like this, you do look at your life pretty intensely. So much must change. You are doing the right thing in talking about it. Your feelings are every bit as important as hers. I won't tell you what to do, but in our relationship, we have no secrets. If one of us fears something or is feeling a certain way, we get it out there. You need her to be clear, to reassure you with your fears. You sound like such a wonderful person.
   I think so much of us does stay the same, but the attitude toward things changes. I can only speak from my experience. I am so much less angry in my life, I am more empathetic to others, and comfortable with who I am. My partner says she would kill me if I went back to 'him.' The person I am now, she says, is the person who she fell in love with. Do consider the positives that will happen. It's funny how many of the old traditions can be replaced with new traditions and they just become the new normal. I wish you the best of luck.
Moni

Hi Dawn (nice to see you here),

We've chatted a little about this and what you have said is so true. As your spouse transitions, so do you and your relationship. Your feelings are valid regardless of what they are as well as your concerns. There are a lot of "what if's" when transitioning and we all hope for the best possible outcome, but it's not an easy road. I can say that at least for me and my wife, we have gone down this road together and have zero regrets. It sounds like you are on the right path and you are there for them and that's all you can do at this point.

Even with that, my wife today was reminded of the old me when Facebook did "On This Day" from 7 years ago with a pre-transition picture of me in her feed. It triggered her even though she is behind me 1000% and our bond is closer than ever. This happen over breakfast this morning and she told me (paraphrased) she morned the loss of the old me, but now looks at me and sees that she has gained a beautiful wife in the process who is the same beautiful person on the inside. This is perfectly natural for anyone in a 20 year relationship with the last 3½ years of me being her wife. Your only human and your response is just that, "human".

I appreciate the time everyone took in reading and responding and offering kind words and insight. I didn't expect so many wonderful, heartfelt responses. Thank you all! It means more than I can say

Xoxo
Dawn <3

Hi Dawn

Just to give context, My wife and I have been together 33 years married 31, I can't thank you enough for writing what you did. It reminded me that she is dealing with her own stuff around my transition. It is a timely and important reminder that if you have a partner they are having their own experience of your transition. I think your point about its the same person but different is so true, leaving me out of it, no one is as impacted by my transition more than her. I am the same person internally that I have always been but outwardly the changes are huge. To be honest I don't know if I could be as graceful as she is, should the roles have been reversed. I am grateful every day for her love and support.

Liz