So I learned that I really don't pass even after having ffs.
Had a co-worker talked to be about same-sex marriage and asked me when I was going to get married to my bf.
All of that hard work for nothing and now I feel like a failure.

I'm having thoughts of just taking estrogen but going back to living socially as male.
I don't want to but being clocked is severely depressing.

So how do I learn to live as a non-passing trans person?

We have had this discussion before. Image wise, you are very passable. A picture doesn't tell us about your mannerism, body language and voice. All of those things can be addressed if they are the source of the problem but you will have to make the effort and you will have to believe.

Unfortunately much of my life I wasn't and may still not be very passable but one thing comes to mind. A gay guy I worked with talked to me about it and even though I wasn't totally passible, he considered me  very  feminine. This was because my mannerism and body language projected a strong feminine image.

As for me, I would be a non passing MTF than returning to my male role and the dysphoria that came with it. I have now live longer as a women than I did as a man and I have been far happier as a woman than I ever was as a man. You will have to make peace with yourself and a therapist might help with that but you will have to do most of the work yourself. 

Which all check out fine and yet I still get clocked.
It's because of my hard face and very broad body.

I agree with Deena. You look very passable in your picture so it maybe is something else. Maybe how you act? Or possibly your attitude?

Dont  so hard on yourself.   We all wish we were perfect females. Getting read is some thing we all hate, but that is over come by our inner happiness of what we  feel. expressing being  and living femme....... just my opinion

Quote from: Julia1996 on June 19, 2017, 06:37:28 PM
I agree with Deena. You look very passable in your picture so it maybe is something else. Maybe how you act? Or possibly your attitude?

Has nothing to do with either one

Quote from: Angieisalone on June 19, 2017, 04:59:52 PM
Had a co-worker talked to be about same-sex marriage and asked me when I was going to get married to my bf.

Did this coworker already know you were trans? It could just be that gay marriage equals all LGBT, and not that you were being clocked.

Your appearance in every image I've seen is passing, so you may need to look at other cues that might be reading too male to others, should you actually want to improve your passing.  A serious heart-to-heart talk with a good gender therapist mig also help.  Seriously.   I've led myself on about various things that led to bad states in my head with no real-world cause or means of resolution beyond altering how I thought about things.

As far as changing my gender presentation goes, Not Going To Happen.  I would vastly prefer living as a non-passing Weird Old Lady than as an extremely uncomfortable person trying to pass as male.  I'm happier this way.  Oh, I am still planning on doing everything I can to pass, but as a 63 year old I know there are limits to what medical work can do.

Quote from: Angieisalone on June 19, 2017, 06:16:41 PM
It's because of my hard face and very broad body.

It's not the face... I've not see pictures of you decides your avitar, so it's hard to say if your body is the issue... but from that pic it's not obviously so..

Body is an issue I know about ... I have a big wide body and it does get me read even after over 20 years... And Yes I've had FFS (18 years ago) as well as SRS (19 years ago)...

I knew that going in and hoped somehow HRT would eventually make a big enough difference - but it did not...

But while things never went how I had hoped ... I could never go back...

Maybe you just need a new environment, maybe word has gotten out so you are not getting read, but instead outed...

But regardless I can tell you that once you address it, it's awfully hard to bury who you are again... So you have 2 choices ... learn to accept things as they are or keep trying to change things... Easier said that done I know... I never could really do either... and that is not a place you want to be... trust me on that.

- karen

Women come in all shapes and sizes. I am almost 6 feet tall and even though I have lost over 100 pounds, I still weigh more than I would like to. I will never be a petite wisp of a young lady as much as I would like to. I have to accept that and that does not make me any less of a woman. I  just have a past life that I think about less often as time goes on.

Quote from: Angieisalone on June 19, 2017, 04:59:52 PM
Had a co-worker talked to be about same-sex marriage and asked me when I was going to get married to my bf.

Did the co=worker know you were trans?  If so,possibly he was thinking that trans-woman = MAN.  Hence FTM + boyfriend = same sex.  It might not have been about passing.

Quote from: Dani on June 22, 2017, 05:57:32 AM
Women come in all shapes and sizes. I am almost 6 feet tall and even though I have lost over 100 pounds, I still weigh more than I would like to. I will never be a petite wisp of a young lady as much as I would like to. I have to accept that and that does not make me any less of a woman. I  just have a past life that I think about less often as time goes on.

While that is true, there is a clear difference between what is masculine and feminine. If you refer to this document, you will understand the differences https://www.humanics-es.com/ADA316646.pdf

Quote from: KathyLauren on June 22, 2017, 10:46:51 PM
Did the co=worker know you were trans?  If so,possibly he was thinking that trans-woman = MAN.  Hence FTM + boyfriend = same sex.  It might not have been about passing.

Nope, they didn't know I was trans in the first place, so.....

Quote from: Angieisalone on June 25, 2017, 10:11:19 AM
Nope, they didn't know I was trans in the first place, so.....

If anybody where you work knows about your past, you have to assume that everybody does. In one job I worked at, the boss used the grapevine to spread information around the company. The only problem was that I wasn't a part of the grapevine so he had to tell me separately. He discovered this by accident when he used it to inform the company about his divorce and much latter I said something that indicated I was clueless.

If you want to be stealth, you must not only pass effectively but you must rewrite all traces of your past. I have seen posts from women who have had to relocated several time to continue a stealth existence. This also includes playing ignorant about LGBT issues. One thing won't out you but the combination of several will. For me it's just to difficult to do everything required for stealth so I don't worry about it.

Hi Angie. Your avatar looks ridiculously feminine. If you want commiseration, perhaps you should post up some pics showing us what it is you're talking about. And if you're getting clocked everywhere, perhaps you're doing something else to bring that attention.


No one thinks this womans not female





So post up some pics so we can see what you mean.

That brings up an interesting point. This is a lifetime deal, and with the exception of maybe the rollers, we're all going to look like this. It's easy for me to visualize because I'm a lot closer to it now than a lot of people here. Today it's about the passing, and some tomorrow it's going to be about wanting a feminine looking adult diaper, that someone else has to change for you. Accept the gifts you have and be happy with today. There are no guaranteed tomorrows.

Hugs, Devlyn

" a femine looking adult diaper "  OMG that is totally hilarious. 😂😂

Has to be pink and definitely has pictures of unicorns and rainbows stenciled on them.  Those will be sure to make me crap my pants as femininely as possible.

That's our girl! 

But in all seriousness, living a non-passing life is not without risks.  Like this afternoon...

I was out of salad fixings, so I walked to Trader Joe's for groceries, about a block and a half from my apartment.  No incidents, no problems, and I was on my way home, maybe a half block from my front door, when it happened.

A large man, looking like an out of shape linebacker with a patchy beard, was coming the other way.  He stopped, blocking the sidewalk.  "Hey, you a <obscene reference to gay male>?"  Thick accent.  Eastern European?  Uh oh.  Left hand in purse, safety off on the pepper spray. Move toward street.  He matches the move.  "What the <heck>?", I say.  He steps toward me.  I pull out the canister, aim, nozzle toward his eyes, ready to fire, sweep, and run.  "Hey, no pepper! I like <obscenity>!" 

He steps back, and I bolt through right lane and past him.  He laughs.

Maybe I'm making too much of this.  Maybe he's a really nice man who just wanted to give a <obscenity> a big friendly hug.  Maybe I'm just being terribly unaccepting of an alternative lifestyle.  I don't think so.  This had a really, really bad vibe to it.  His posture was aggressive and threatening.  Perhaps that is just the way of his people.  It didn't come across to me that way.

It's been about 6 months since the last time I felt threatened, and that was by a vehicle that seemed to be pacing and following me late one evening.   This was more personal.

I'm home, in a secure building, doors locked now.  It still bothers me.  I was feeling so good today, and then this happened, in a supposedly LGBT friendly area of a definitely LGBT friendly state.

Living a non-passing life has risks.  I'd like to live long enough to be that old lady in curlers, with unicorns and rainbows on the Depends.  This is why I want so very much to pass.   Being non-passing and having to live in hiding, or in fear of simply being able to walk to the grocery store shouldn't be a part of living an 'authentic life'.  Yes, ciswomen face risks.  Trans women who don't pass face those same risks and more.

Sorry you had to deal with that, Michellel Nowhere is safe all the time for anyone. We're even more vulnerable in more places. You dodged a bullet. Thank goodness. Happy we're talking with you and not about you. Freaking narrow minded crazy trogladites are everywhere. Stay on your guard. And for the record, I suspect this piece of garbage harrasses lots of folks, predators don't generally play favorites. Women are raped and beaten and killed every day.
Be careful out there, woman.