I'm mtf, and I experience gender dysphoria, and have my whole life, although it has gotten better since i came out but that's not what im talking about. Until now, every trans person i have talked to has gender dysphoria, so I always assumed that what makes someone trans, what gives them the right to say that they're trans is gender dysphoria. But recently, some people have made me beg the question of, can you be trans if you have never experienced gender dysphoria? My immediate gut reaction to the idea is of course not, people come out and live they're lives as trans because they're NOT comfortable otherwise, so when someone comes along and says they're trans but has never felt an ounce of discomfort related to gender in their lives, it seems invalidating to me, and misleading to cis folks who don't know better. It seems like if you're comfortable no matter what you do then you aren't trans, and saying you are trans is disrespectful to the real trans people who have actually gone through some ->-bleeped-<- and have a real reason for transitioning. Again, this is just my gut reaction to the question. This might be completely wrong, and if it is, im sorry, please tell me.

I would say people experience varying levels of gender dysphoria, but one of the major criteria for the medical diagnosis of the condition is indeed the experience of gender dysphoria.

Just exactly how or do you define "Gender Dysphoria"?

I generally ascribe to the principle of if you think you aren't cis, then you are somewhere on the trans spectrum. If you think you aren't cis, by definition you are experiencing some "level" of GD.

Now, is it so overwhelming you just want to crawl into a ball and cry, or die? Stuff it, and rely on drugs, alcohol, or adrenaline, to "quiet the noise"? Just soldier on the best you can juggling what you have to, how you have to, to keep all the important things to you and your life in balance? Or....?

So it is possible to be trans without experiencing GD, depending upon how you define GD

Many of us are in denial for most of our life. In my opinion, we have gender dysphoria if our feelings are totally overwhelming to the point of self destruction and transition is the only possible answer.

Having said that, since we all come in different sizes and flavors, I suppose that there can be some people who are trans but do not experience gender dysphoria. The term "gender fluid" comes to mind.

Transgender encompasses a lot of things, and doesn't always include transitioning. Per our site definitions a transsexual will generally wish to change their body, but not always. I'm not a transsexual, but I am changing my body. Everyone is different.

The bottom line is: Dysphoria is common among transsexuals, but certainly not a requirement to be transgender.

Hugs, Devlyn

I didn't recognize my state as dysphoric for a long time, but I did notice that I was pretty much unable to look at myself in a mirror.  I mean, when I shaved or brushed my teeth I looked at what I was doing, but never widened my focus to take in my whole face.  One of the things I noticed once I was on E was that I became very comfortable looking at myself, and have grown more and more comfortable with how I look now.  When I start to doubt whether I'm doing the right thing, looking in the mirror is one of the things I do to ground myself again. 

Erin

This is only an observation, and might not be accurate, but last year my ex-husband, out of the blue, decided he is a nonbinary person and wants to present mostly as female. He'd never mentioned before or shown any signs of dysphoria that I could tell, but began seeing a gender identity counselor at the VA.

It just seemed to come out of nowhere. Furthermore, he seemed totally unaware what a shock it would be to his family and friends, or what he might lose because of it.

He casually remarked "It would be fun to wear high heels and live like a woman" like someone talking about changing shirts and said the "she-males" he'd seen online were "hot."

I figured he was just copying me, since I'd come out previously to him as a nonbinary partial transmale, or was just experiencing sexual attraction to transgender sex workers, but he's stuck to his story so far. His current wife and his own family are staunch Republicans and religious, so I keep wondering when he'll find out that what he's proposing isn't something they will accept.

He has a lot to lose also. He is 6' 1", gorgeous, solid muscle, a former Navy and airline pilot, and one of the engineers who designed the B-2 bomber, so has  high status and is almost worshiped in his family, as the older son. It's possible he had gender dysphoria but was unaware of it.

Personally, I think wrecking that perfect male Las Vegas stripper body with female hormones is a crying shame, but when he visited me here in Thailand several years ago, he wore a lace body suit because of a remark I'd made that he looked like Marcia Cross. I was right, as he was stunning as a female, so I suppose he'll get by.

I think if you experience regular discomfort living and being referred to as your assigned gender; then that also counts as dysphoria. Not all trans people hate their bodies; some want to medically transition and some are happy enough just socially transitioning.

My therapist said there's 2 types of transgender people: The ones that are ruled by dysphoria and the ones that are ruled by desire. Dysphoria means discomfort, and this can happen in varying levels, from a mild annoyance to feeling like you want to kill yourself. Desire means you want to build or create a new identity different than the one you have now but you're not necessarily suffering or hating your body. Both are acceptable as transgender.

In my case my dysphoria manifested as being super bored with my life, not happy with anything even though I had it all, and secretly fantasizing about being a woman. I never really felt like I hated my body. What I felt was apathy towards my job, my romantic relationship, my life in general...And was just going through the motions.

After many many years of feeling like that I realized both situations (feeling boredom/apathy and fantasizing about being a woman) could be linked. And here I am, taking spiro for the past month and about to start hormones.

Thank you so so much for this post, and to everyone who has commented thus far.  This is something I have struggled with, and it has made me question my identity and validity.

All through my teens and 20s, I hated myself.  I avoided mirrors, ducked from photos, and I had symptoms of an ED that shrunk me to 100 pounds, but I was still just as miserable.  Anxiety was always a part of me, I was obsessed with being noticed by men and accepted as attractive, and became loud and brash and annoying whenever I felt insecure.  And yes, there were periods when I was suicidal and/or wanted to die.

I'd dressed a woman a couple of times before, but never thought of it as drag in the slightest.  And I always would think of myself as gay "boy," and never felt a connection to being a man, in stereotypical ways or otherwise.  I started working as a Presenter for a network marketing cosmetic company last summer, because something struck me and I wanted to start playing with makeup and changing my face.  I took off, contouring and shadowing and everything within a couple months.  I started calling myself gender fluid, because I was figuring things out and didn't want to jump too quickly ahead of myself.

I agonized and analyzed and questioned everything during the months leading up to starting HRT.  Even after coming out as "transitioning," I waited a few months before biting the bullet.  Within two weeks of hormones, my anxiety was far lower, I felt even keeled, and actually started to love myself for the first time.  I now own my body, and any clothing or makeup or physical attributes are for myself.  I am thinking differently, and all that comes with being on hormones and discovering oneself in this stage.  And I would never turn back for anything. 

I know, this is a long comment, but I'll end it with this musing.  I can see so much of who I was before that points dysphoria now that I can accept myself.  And I experience dysphoria now, usually when I've stripped myself at the end of the night and see the body I still have.  But it doesn't last long, and I am able to work slowly and patiently towards the woman I'm becoming.  So when I question if my feelings before were dysphoria, I can come to the conclusion that I just didn't know that's what it was.

Much love,
Aria

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on July 04, 2017, 01:12:05 PM
My therapist said there's 2 types of transgender people: The ones that are ruled by dysphoria and the ones that are ruled by desire. Dysphoria means discomfort, and this can happen in varying levels, from a mild annoyance to feeling like you want to kill yourself. Desire means you want to build or create a new identity different than the one you have now but you're not necessarily suffering or hating your body. Both are acceptable as transgender.

I have seen the descriptions of those two categories before.  Based on the description, I would fall in the category that is "ruled by desire".  But it sure as heck was dysphoria, even though I didn't describe it as such at the time.

I wanted to be a girl/woman all my life.  While that manifested from time to time in the form of that specific desire, there were other manifestations that were less obvious.  Never fitting it.  Never feeling like I was good enough.  Feeling guilty about wanting to feel more feminine.  The low-grade depression so continuous that I never knew it was anything other than normal existence.  The insistent need to cross-dress.  It was all dysphoria.

Most of my dysphoria centred around social interactions and gender expression, rather than body image, though that was in there too.  I didn't hate my body; I just wished it was different.

I think that, to say that not all transgender people feel dysphoria, one needs to have a very narrow definition of what dysphoria is.  I cannot imagine someone being transgender without having experienced some dysphoria.

Quote from: KathyLauren on July 04, 2017, 05:26:27 PM
I think that, to say that not all transgender people feel dysphoria, one needs to have a very narrow definition of what dysphoria is.  I cannot imagine someone being transgender without having experienced some dysphoria.

Transgender without dysphoria? Sure. Transsexual without dysphoria? That one, I'm afraid, I don't believe. Dysphoria does seem to strike with quite variable intensity and it's not always a physical thing, for some of us, it's more of a psycho-social thing.

This really boils down to a language issue, it's also a good example of why umbrella terms can be problematic. If the OP had asked "Is it possible to be transsexual without experiencing gender dysphoria?" then there would have been far less discussion.

Absolutely right. My response was based on the question being about transgender people in the Transgender Talk section.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on July 04, 2017, 01:12:05 PM
My therapist said there's 2 types of transgender people: The ones that are ruled by dysphoria and the ones that are ruled by desire. Dysphoria means discomfort, and this can happen in varying levels, from a mild annoyance to feeling like you want to kill yourself. Desire means you want to build or create a new identity different than the one you have now but you're not necessarily suffering or hating your body. Both are acceptable as transgender.

How curious!
I don't HATE my male body, I just wish it was female.
Does this make me tier 2... Gender desire?

Quote from: MissKairi on July 04, 2017, 11:59:28 PM

How curious!
I don't HATE my male body, I just wish it was female.
Does this make me tier 2... Gender desire?

Probably that makes me the second type as well. Had surgery not been an option for me, I could have comfortably lived as a woman without surgery. While I wasn't happy with my body, it was the social aspect of being a woman I needed more. This was a conclusion I came to before surgery and was a part of my decision for surgery. I knew that I would never be comfortable in a male life so I would never desire to return to my male life.

Most of the TS Traits list matches me, I scored a 195 on the COGIATI test too.  Neither are what you'd call rigorous science of course, it would be great to see some more comprehensive  data on people's motivations.  But I don't feel dysphoric; or it manifests itself subliminally.   On one of the Transition Channel videos Alexis says to visualize oneself as a woman and see if that brings a feeling of relief.  I have a limited ability to visualize anything, but the feeling of having a woman's body (breast forms, shaved legs) brings this surge through me; is that the same thing?  Is it gender euphoria, or "desire"?

Over time it's become more straightforward for people to transition l, and I hope one day it will be an easily performed procedure for those who would simply feel at their best in the opposite gender, as well as bringing relief for those who really suffer from the dischordance.

Quote from: KathyLauren on July 04, 2017, 05:26:27 PM
Most of my dysphoria centred around social interactions and gender expression, rather than body image, though that was in there too.  I didn't hate my body; I just wished it was different.

This is me as well.



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