Ashley my friend
I think my problem with passing is my lack of confidence, I,m about 5.2" tall size 8 small feet big bottom long hair so I,m half way there but I think my make up skills are pretty poor as yet I haven't really done much & besides fingers crossed I might be starting HRT ( privately ) in the next few weeks so I hoping that will make a difference but confidence wise I'm shot to ->-bleeped-<-, I know I will never look like a 18 year old beauty queen but I don't want to stand out like a sore thumb. Sara

Quote from: coldHeart on July 21, 2017, 08:24:43 AM
Ashley my friend
I think my problem with passing is my lack of confidence, I,m about 5.2" tall size 8 small feet big bottom long hair so I,m half way there but I think my make up skills are pretty poor as yet I haven't really done much & besides fingers crossed I might be starting HRT ( privately ) in the next few weeks so I hoping that will make a difference but confidence wise I'm shot to ->-bleeped-<-, I know I will never look like a 18 year old beauty queen but I don't want to stand out like a sore thumb. Sara

Hello Sara!!!

HRT in a few weeks is so wonderful to here!!!... I think it will bring you some peace in your mind as well as the welcome changes to your face and body that will come with time!!!...

Makeup skills come with time as well... Doing it everyday allows you to constantly refine and improve your style and technique..  I was so very rough in the beginning and took a lesson and then just kept working on it.... I think in the beginning it took me about 2.5 hours to do and the results still looked pretty crude... I do it in less than 30 min now and can do a 10 minute job if I need to fly out the door!!!

In the beginning of going out in daily life in public, my approach was much like Elkie's... I would often find myself taking a look at how bad I looked in the rear view mirror of my car before I would head into a store or bank etc... My inner voice would be telling me to leave and not go in but I resolved to never chicken out... It always went okay!... I would go in... Do what I needed to do, and leave... Would I get looks? ... Yes! ...There were some looks but most people didn't care and nothing bad ever happened beyond looks... With this approach over and over... Confidence builds and builds...  and during the time your confidence is building your presentation will be improving as well...makeup, clothes and the changes of HRT will all start to come together a bit more!!!

The whole process can feel like such a leap off a large cliff but all will be well my sister!!! It is indeed a leap of faith .... Faith that we will find what we need ... I think that you will Sara

Hugs and Love!!!!

Ashley 😀❤️🌻

A great improvement in makeup skills could come with getting good foundation and other makeup supplies... I once went into Sephora (in male mode!) and told them I occasionally cross dress and need to have a good foundation. Got myself perfectly matched foundation/powder and free makeup with a lesson.

Another time I just went into local Walgreens (female mode this time) and asked young girl working in cosmetics department to help me with building a basic makeup kit. Got all young girls working in that Walgreens (evening shift, no other customers) concilium and advise on their favorite brands and full kit for real cheap with lots of positive vibe. Been going there very often


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey Elkie!...

Yes the girls at Ulta and Sephora were so helpful and really helped me along the way!!! A couple of them became good friends of mine outside the retail environment as well!!!

Hugs!!!

A😀

The whole process can feel like such a leap off a large cliff but all will be well my sister!!! It is indeed a leap of faith .... Faith that we will find what we need ... I think that you will Sara

Hugs and Love!!!!

Ashley 😀❤️🌻


Yes it dose feel like a big leap off a cliff trouble is I'm about to hit the bottom, I should be happy for the up coming HRT but my mood is so low I'm not sure if its just a waist of money.
Sara

Quote from: coldHeart on July 21, 2017, 04:29:35 PM
Yes it dose feel like a big leap off a cliff trouble is I'm about to hit the bottom, I should be happy for the up coming HRT but my mood is so low I'm not sure if its just a waist of money.
Sara

Hi Sara, I shouldn't be too dismissive yet.  This week I started HRT and was very pessimistic about the positive effects on mental health that everyone seems to report when starting HRT.  Today (day 3), things seem to have kicked in and I haven't been as happy for years.  I'm sure there are plenty of ups and downs to come but for now I'd say it was money very well spent

C x

Mental health effects experienced in the first few weeks of HRT are almost certainly placebo effect.  That new pain in your nipples on day 10 is real.  The new worldview may also be real, but it isn't from HRT, at least not yet. 

If the effects on me mentally are real or just a placebo when first starting hrt I real don't care I just what to feel better, hopefully my facial features will soften & Some breast growth would be good.
I'm trying to get it in to my thick head all of this will take time but as some of you will know when your right pon the edge of living or not you what it to happen over night, I need to learn to be patient & the have HOPE!.
Yes I have changed my avatar back to the original one, was depressed about the way I looked but hell you've all seen me now & I suppose if you squint I,m not that bad.....
Sara.

Benefits from the placebo effect are not bad.  You feel what you feel and if you feel good, that's awesome.  In general, it feels really good to be doing something new and promising to take care of oneself.  It is more pleasant to be on a clear path than lost in the woods.  The neurohormonal effects will come, but if for whatever reason, you already feel better, celebrate that!

Sara!

I believe you will find that the cost of HRT is worth every penny and then some!!!

All will be well my friend... I have great faith in you!!!.... I'm glad you changed your avatar back, the old one was a bit dark .. Okay, very dark!!!...and in no way reflected the hope of things to come!!!!

Onward we go brave sister!!!

Ashley 😀❤️🌻

Quote from: coldHeart on July 21, 2017, 08:24:43 AM

but I think my make up skills are pretty poor  .....

I am not an expert in this by any stretch. The problem I found, is that I tried to do to much and none of what I did  was very good. So I rstopped tring to do so much and came back to a few basics then Have started to add to ithem very slowly. When I think I have got something right and it is working for me I add now ready to add something new.

I started with just getting my foundation and highlighting (basic), eyeliner top and bottom and lipstick. Once I was happy I could do these properly I then added mascara, eyelash curler...the next I will be working on are my eyebrows. They are shaped but need to be filled out a bit and worked on. This is my next area and because I wear glasses you can't see much of my lids anyway so will be adding eyeshadow after that. I have no set time frame. But I am down to about 30 mintues to go to the mascara stage and I am sure at a push it can be faster. But rushing is what always causes me problems

Don't know if any of that is any help but good luck

There are some posts on this thread saying one should not worry about passing, that how you feel about yourself the only thing that really matters...

Well yes and no... Worrying about passing certainly CAN drive one crazy, and I have seem more than a few over the years who worry needlessly... But I have also some seen that see themselves differently than the most of the world does.

IMO it's important to have a REALISTIC idea where one stands in that department regardless of how one feels about oneself, if for no other reason than safety.

But one thing I've seen over the years is that the better one 'passes' teh better one one is accepted as woman even by those who 'know'.

And that affects both one's social and professional life in a lot of ways, even if often subtly.

And I am not even talking about beauty here... GGs live are more strongly affected by how they look then men's lives are, and passing IMO has an order of magnitude effect larger than beauty (or lack of it)

Sure personality, confidence and ability all affect things too but IMO they can never 100% make up for not passing in terms of the textures and opportunities and experiences in one's life.

I understand why some have to not believe that for their emotional survival, I wish I could be like that as I don't pass 100% even after 20 years, but I believe in dealing with what is...

That said I don't worry about getting read most of the time (it only happens occasionally) and just try to live my life, but I know I can't depend on no getting read, and do note the difference in interactions with people who read me or know, and those that don't.

Not all of us can pass close to 100% of time, and that is just a reality we have to deal with REALISTICALLY to make teh best life for ourselves we can.

It is very obvious that very few can objectively judge themselves... To know where you are you need to look to the reactions of others, and sometimes teh difference can be subtle, but IMO it is  important for TSes to develop the skills one needs to know where one really is.

- karen

Quote from: Aurorasky on July 20, 2017, 01:52:15 PM
I'm sorry, but if you are a walking advertisement of tells then people will be able to read you, regardless of how aware you are of those social cues. It's subconscious, it only takes a cursory glance or hearing the sound of your voice. And I find people, most people actually, will be polite to trans folk nowadays, even if many don't really believe it's a real thing but are past the point of caring. And considering the length some social justice warriors go to claim everything and every little action is transphobic (micro-agressions), even asking questions, I would say most people are actually afraid of talking to an openly trans person, because they feel they have to walk on eggshells to talk to us. Passing does not equate to confidence. Otherwise, how many genetic girls would be clocked because they're insecure? It doesn't make sense to me.


A size M is not too big at all. M is quite normal for women close to or above 5'7 (170cm) tall.  And even short women with very large breasts. I wear S most of the time but some fitting tops have to be M, because they are too tight. I don't feel bad about it at all. How tall are you, Angieisalone? I'm in Europe, though. Don't know if it's different in tha USA.

I'm 5'9" which is very tall. All the cis women I know who are my height or taller than me wear XS or S. I feel like a monster in an M

Quote from: Angieisalone on July 23, 2017, 11:53:31 AM
I'm 5'9" which is very tall. All the cis women I know who are my height or taller than me wear XS or S. I feel like a monster in an M

Again, women come in all shapes and sizes.  It's not unusual at all that you compare yourself to cis-women.  We all do that, and we all feel like we don't measure up in one way or another.  You are not a cis-woman.  You are never going to be a cis-woman.  The pathway forward into happiness involves being okay with yourself as a transwoman.

And, sure, it would be nice to never get "clocked', but if you used the word "recognized" instead, would it be quite so bad?

Renae (6'3" by the way)

Quote from: rmaddy on July 23, 2017, 01:40:21 PM
Again, women come in all shapes and sizes.  It's not unusual at all that you compare yourself to cis-women.  We all do that, and we all feel like we don't measure up in one way or another.  You are not a cis-woman.  You are never going to be a cis-woman.  The pathway forward into happiness involves being okay with yourself as a transwoman.

You and I beat the same drum Renae!!!.... Self acceptance is at the very core of making transition "work"

We will always see our imperfections but accepting what we see gives us the keys to the kingdom!!!


Onward we go brave sisters!!!

Ashley

Quote from: rmaddy on July 23, 2017, 01:40:21 PM
Again, women come in all shapes and sizes.  It's not unusual at all that you compare yourself to cis-women.  We all do that, and we all feel like we don't measure up in one way or another.  You are not a cis-woman.  You are never going to be a cis-woman.  The pathway forward into happiness involves being okay with yourself as a transwoman.

And, sure, it would be nice to never get "clocked', but if you used the word "recognized" instead, would it be quite so bad?

Renae (6'3" by the way)

While that is true that women get come in all shapes and sizes, if a woman has an inverted triangle or rectangle body type, that is just their genetics giving them the middle finger.
Because of this, i detransitioned socially due to genetics not wanting to be female. Sure I can take hrt and will continue to do so but I will never pass because of my body. Rather present as male than present as fenake with a extremely masculine body that makes NFL players blush.

Quote from: Angieisalone on July 24, 2017, 06:01:04 AM
While that is true that women get come in all shapes and sizes, if a woman has an inverted triangle or rectangle body type, that is just their genetics giving them the middle finger.

Yes, and in spite of all those variations, they are still women!

Being a woman is not in the shape of a few ounces of soft tissue, or in the ratio of some bone lengths.

Being a woman, one's gender identification, is something that lives between the ears.  It is a variation in the brain, the connectome, ultimately, in the mind, a concept, and an attitude that puts one on the feminine side of the gender identity continuum.

I am a woman.  I have an unusual history.

I am a lesbian.  Who I love, and how, is important to me.

I am transgender.  That is how I got to this place in my life.

I accept myself.  Heck, I love myself, and I want to make myself better.  That's why I seek medical care.

Quote from: Michelle_P on July 24, 2017, 08:40:12 AM
Yes, and in spite of all those variations, they are still women!

Being a woman is not in the shape of a few ounces of soft tissue, or in the ratio of some bone lengths.

Being a woman, one's gender identification, is something that lives between the ears.  It is a variation in the brain, the connectome, ultimately, in the mind, a concept, and an attitude that puts one on the feminine side of the gender identity continuum.

I am a woman.  I have an unusual history.

I am a lesbian.  Who I love, and how, is important to me.

I am transgender.  That is how I got to this place in my life.

I accept myself.  Heck, I love myself, and I want to make myself better.  That's why I seek medical care.

<removed>
<It is hard to be recognized as a cis woman you> need almost the whole package. Goes by your face, body, mannerisms, etc.
Why do you think some cis women get mistaken for men? Because something nature screwed up hard or they made themselves like that.

Moderator edit: A line was removed as it suggested they know the reasoning behind another member's motivation. Edit made to fit within the parameters of ToS  5& 10.

Quote from: Angieisalone on July 24, 2017, 09:00:09 AM

Just because someone identifies as female doesn't mean their female. You need almost the whole package.

I totally disagree.  Good luck with that.

Quote from: rmaddy on July 24, 2017, 09:09:48 AM
I totally disagree.  Good luck with that.

And I disagree with you.