exactly.... i mean, how hard is it to ask your therapist for a letter saying your offically trans, and that you have the right to use that room... if you have to prove you belong, carry proof....
if you dont, dont.. seems simple, maybe a tiny bit degrading, but then again, if it doesnt come up, its not, if it does, its already fairly embaracing id wager....
whats worse? getting kicked out? or proving you belong?

what makes me laugh, is the transpeople who complain about this situation, then also bitch when someone trys to tie down a cause for trans... they seem to prefer it being a non proven 'just is' thing, then get upset when someone calls them out and thy cant prove they belong... pick a side people ><
R >

Quote from: Rachael on February 17, 2008, 04:53:29 PM

what makes me laugh, is the transpeople who complain about this situation, then also bitch when someone trys to tie down a cause for trans... they seem to prefer it being a non proven 'just is' thing, then get upset when someone calls them out and thy cant prove they belong... pick a side people ><
R >

Not everyone subscribes to the same rigid gender binary that you do, but that shouldn't mean they have to worry about their safety when using the restroom.

And what is so scary about CDs anyways?

And this licensing business is a bit scary.  Not sure I want to be in a government database with the wrong letter next to my name.

It also seems like this question always gets skewed to the MTF.  I wonder if any FTMs would feel threatened by a female CD using the men's room?  Or at least to the extent many MTF's have expressed their own outrage at the notion.

Rachael;

Be careful.

I know someone here who was in a similar situation involving communal disrobing.  One other girl found out, meaning all found out in a half hour.  Her therapist's carry letter was worthless.

If it were me, I'd ask for special accommodations and make up a lame-but-believable story about a temporary-but-contagious infection that only precludes rooming together.  They'll appreciate your consideration for their health.

Karen

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on February 17, 2008, 01:54:57 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on February 17, 2008, 04:34:00 AM
I'm probably very lucky as I have never had any problems in female restrooms.

I did used to get thrown out of male restrooms before I started transition and men complaining 'there's a girl in here'.....

Wow you must have naturally looked really feminine. 

I did.......but it wasn't a big deal or anything and it seemed quite normal to me. People thought I was female from about the age if 13 onwards to my 20's. I'd get hit on by guys at music gigs and festivals and it was fun hanging out with girls who had no idea.....

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on February 17, 2008, 05:39:17 PM


And what is so scary about CDs anyways?

You met any?

Karen:yeah, true, but then, my tutor has already said: if anything happens, the department is on my side.... thier problem. not the university, or mine....
Tbh, im more worried about my passing ability... but then, after having worked for 5 months stealth, and my tutor group never knew... maybe i can pull it off? i dunno, theres only to do and die, than to live in fear and never try.
R >

Quote from: Rachael on February 17, 2008, 06:11:07 PM

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on February 17, 2008, 05:39:17 PM


And what is so scary about CDs anyways?

You met any?

R >

Yes.  And they seemed more fabulous than scary.

Quote from: Rachael on February 17, 2008, 06:11:07 PM

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on February 17, 2008, 05:39:17 PM


And what is so scary about CDs anyways?

You met any?

Karen:yeah, true, but then, my tutor has already said: if anything happens, the department is on my side.... thier problem. not the university, or mine....
Tbh, im more worried about my passing ability... but then, after having worked for 5 months stealth, and my tutor group never knew... maybe i can pull it off? i dunno, theres only to do and die, than to live in fear and never try.
R >

From your profile photograph you passing ability looks really good......you will be surprised how easy it can be and you may be worrying for nothing.

Quote from: Rachael on February 17, 2008, 06:11:07 PM

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on February 17, 2008, 05:39:17 PM


And what is so scary about CDs anyways?

You met any?

Some are guys in dresses, to be sure, some are absolutely ladylike when dressed and out.  Some look frumpy, some I steal dressing tips from.  Some are trying to make fun of females/femininity, some don't just dream it, they be it, if even for a Saturday night.

I'm more than willing to give the well-dressed/behaved a chance, and of course I'm going to steer clear of the trainwrecks, as do the other people in the neighborhood (there's a Second Saturday Artwalk that basically makes LGBT a minority in their 'neighborhood' on that evening.  Sometimes it's just fun to sit on the stoop of one of the old victorians and watch...)

=K

Seems like sanity has gone out the window here. 

Quote from: Keira on February 17, 2008, 04:38:03 PM
As I said, the only real solution is neutral single stall rooms with corridor access.
This solves all problems and is probably also the most efficient way to do things.

i agree. this is such a stupid non-issue that the fundies use to spread hate against Trans people.

how hard can it be to resolve if Starbucks has already solved the "problem" in thousands of its facilities? it's no big deal, just that problem-makers and haters are trying to make it seem as such.

-ellie

You know it's interesting this bathroom issue.
You know, remodeling bathrooms is kinda a big deal.
It's one of the reasons Mile High Stadium in Denver was shut down.
Mile High was built back in a day when most patrons were men and boys.
Therefor there was an abundance of stalls and urinals for guys.
But for women there was very few.
Later they had to remodel some Mens restrooms to be Womens
But that created a problem because the archetecture was designed to handle only so many people going at once. There was just enough space alloted for for all the guys, and when remodeled, the guys lost needed restrooms. And there were still not enough for the Women.
That was one of the problems that led to it's demise.

Doing major structural remodeling in a comercial building is costly and changes the ability to absorb the impact of a high volume of users.

In my school for instance, there is one mens and one womens restroom on each floor.
All space is alloted for.
We have an old 11 story office building.
You couldn't just put neutral bathrooms on one floor as people whould have to go through the already overused elavators to get there. it would take 20 minutes from a break from a class on one floor to travel to the floor with the neutral restroom, use it, and return to the other floor.

It would be a disaster, and then only one user at a time, so at high volume times like lunch hour, that floor would be without a functional restroom as there would be always somebody in it.

Not very good planning.

Probably the best bet is to just let people use the restroom they want which is what my school does.

Sara

i have been reading this  and to me like karen said I'm more than willing to give the well-dressed/behaved a

chance to use the proper rest room . that they are presenting as so if they are female use the female

bath room  if they are male . do the same thing. just do what you got to do . and  then go on your marry

way about your own businse. and looking at it from that point of veiw i would think everything would be ok

but it seams to me from the way the wold . wants to view this matter. it seams to get very dogmatic and

full of a bunch of law that they want to make about this matter . that mont to noting more then  a buch of

foo foo. maybe some day the time will come when this wont be a problem at all . and we can all live

together with out all this dogmmatic trash  just  my 2 cent,s on this 

Restroom remodeling is very expensive. Theres the plumbing and all the fixtures not to mention making the space. I don't think any business would change a restroom, unless it was doing a major remodel. If a place that had a one stall restroom and they had two of them, they could just put locks on the doors and call them anyones restroom.
I guess people here are paranoid about using the restroom with the opposite gender. I know a lot of restrooms have stalls and they have locks on the stalls and the stalls are at least 7 feet high and some you couldn't look under so what are you all afraid of? Susan's webpage is for all transgender people and I believe that when it started it was for the right to be who you are. Some of us are CD, some of us are TS, some of us are gender queer/variant but we all are transgender. Restroom issue has got to be the most ignorant issue that has ever come up, on this webpage and at City Council meetings and any other place on the this planet
Sheila

Why change the restrooms when its not nessecary??

All I think needs to be done is make a little goverment office, that recieves a letter from a therapist of a TS person, review it, then issue a piece of paper that says the TS person can use the restroom they are identify with.

Simple, wont cost millions, we are talking one guy in a cubicle in some gov building

Then if a Trans person is stopped in a bathroom and police are called, they will have legal ground. Simple.

Remodding restrooms nationwide, or worldwide IS MILLIONS, even just to change the little women/man signs worldwide would be MILLIONS.

Sheila, its not us ONLY that care, its the other GG too.
If you can find convince them to have a male identified CD go into a restroom
and not care about it, well good luck to you.

As in all conflict resolution, you have to focus on the other people's needs
instead of saying they need to change. People have legitimate concerns
about CD's; early transition TS are often conflated with CD's, so that's
where the TS issue comes from. A simple carry letter from a psychologist
should be enough if the police departments get sensitivity training
and are advised of the issue through internal memos. No need
to start a new bureaucratie and licensing bureau to get this done.

You know what would be nice; a third gender marker on ID's
That way we could select O or other for those who are not exact if we wish.
That way they'd start thinking about that rather than just dualism.

By the way,
Anybody been to safe2pee.org?
That's a great website.
I heard about it in WIRED of all places.

It lets you find the nearest listed, known safe restroom in your area to Trans people and then uses Google maps to help you find it.
Whether non-gendermarked or just accepted use, these things are specified.
It lets you enter new ones too.
check it out.

www.safe2pee.org

Sara

We should not be having this conversation about this topic because if you've transitioned it should never be a problem..

Some of the later comments about changing restrooms are absolutely crazy...

Quote from: debbie.j on February 17, 2008, 09:05:48 PM
i have been reading this  and to me like karen said I'm more than willing to give the well-dressed/behaved a

chance to use the proper rest room . that they are presenting as so if they are female use the female


bath room 

Um, presenting as female does not mean someone is female....
should a man in a cat suit use the litter tray? no.... (amusing as that might be)

A male identified crossdresser is still male.
If he needs to go to the toilet, thats his dilemma... hes not a female, why should he be let into the female restroom just because hes dressed like one?
thats all it is at the end of the day... dressing up... under it all, is a man....the man wants to pee, not the outfit, or wig, or makup...
Women will never accept men in the womens room....
now the point here, is transsexual women ARE NOT men.... bingo! oh, prove it you say? so many suggestions for that.... and i agree.... if you have to prove it... carry proof... it aint hard. even now...you may not look it, but you are female, and entitled to use the womens room....


Its like a natal female friend of mine... shes a biker, went to the ladies in her leathers and brain bucket... some woman is 'zomg man am in here' and runs to the manager....
they confront my friend who takes her helmet and jacket off... and their omg dramaz.. it is a woman!
there are ways of taking the cover off a transsexual person and proving thier a female... dignified? no, but neither is being outed as a dude... what do you prefer? man or transwoman?

Unisex bathrooms wont EVER take entirely... some yes. all? no... Think about the  public restrooms.... unisex? give me a break.... women would NEVER use them. EVER....
R >

i agree with so many of you ladies on here. this restroom thing is completely ludacris. i used to think that i only identified as a CD, but i have also had a strong feeling i should be a woman. i have posted in another thread that people have repeatedly asked if i gave birth to my son, then my wife told me the other day it went further back, people were asking her if i had just given birth to my daughter, i know she was quite offended probably standing there in her hospital gown and i'm sleeping by the window. i have used the women's restroom many places without incidence. i have no carr letter or anything like that. the only place i don't use it is at work as they all still believe i identify as male, i am quite uncomfortable using the men's room as i get some funny looks from customers, so i use the family restroom or the one in the shop or i hold it. holding it, for some isn't possible nor is it medically a good idea, as if you hold it too long you are prone to contracting a UTI.

IMHO, a man who looks like a man in a dress(mustache, beard, that sort of thing) should not be in the women's room. i admit, i would be a little frightened as well, if someone sporting a zztop beard came into the women's bathroom. the well-behaved, well-dressed in my view deserve a chance. i like Mara's little cubicle idea as well that way we are legally protected and it wouldn't cost lots of money. And if it's gonna be anyone it should be a therapist well versed in gender issues that has control of this matter, that way they are impartial and required by medical law to provide patient confidentiality. i also like the other idea of having a third gender marker allowed on drivers licenses and make it at the state and federal levels. best bet, government therapist in well versed gender issues to oversee everything, then they can approve gender marker on license, that way everybody is happy and everybody is covered. then everybody can use the restroom they feel they should use. feel free to poke holes in my idea...lol.

and around here in ohio, the gender girls use the family and unisex bathrooms quite often from what i've seen..but that's here of course...lol

Quote from: mickie on February 18, 2008, 07:39:18 AM

and around here in ohio, the gender girls use the family and unisex bathrooms quite often from what i've seen..but that's here of course...lol

hi mickie  it,s like that here too also in mi we girls do the same unless we are at the club. then we use the

ladys rest rooms