Hey everyone. I'm feeling a bit down ATM so I'm gonna offload if that's okay. Hopefully this will help any of you other girls/guys who have had similar stuff.

So the other day, I decided to start 'being a girl' 24/7, since spending more than an hour or two in 'guy mode' made me feel like crap. So I got a girl haircut and hair products, some clothes, and thought, let's put it all into action. Caught sight of my reflection in a public bathroom the other day and thought my face looked pretty feminine, which helped things. Got ladies' glasses and am now wearing them. I've been practising feminine movements - walking one foot in front of the other, body language, etc. and using them as much as possible. Today is, in effect, the first day I've been out and about as a girl in London.

And what do you know, people call me 'sir' even more than when I was cis. Every single person - anyone behind the counter of shops I've been in, people at the supermarket checkout - they don't look twice or even hesitate, it's 'sir'. This is before I've opened my mouth, so I can't blame my voice. The first time I was a bit taken aback, so I said "I'd rather not the 'sir', but -" and carried on with what we were doing. Perhaps I said it too quietly, or maybe I'm so masculine it never even crossed his mind that I might be trans, but he said "Thank you sir" at the end of the transaction. Maybe he was just a £$%&.

And then I think, well, clearly I'm not doing enough. But then I think, what the hell else can I do? Just lots of practice? And there keep being moments where I think "What's the correct female body language now? How do I move my hands/feet/shoulders to be less of a man?" and I can't work out how to do it without just looking like a camp gay guy. Nothing, of course, against camp gay guys.

Anyway, let me know if you girls, guys and others have had similar problems, especially when starting out. Just feels ATM like there isn't another bloody trans person on the planet and I'm gonna be a man in make up for the rest of my life =/

How long is your hair?  Hair length is a primary indicator of gender.  People glance at hair length and make instant assumptions on gender.  Oftentimes shoulder-length hair alone will elicit female gendering.

Can I ask if this 'sir and mam' stuff is just in the States?
I'm in the UK and if a shopkeeper said 'sir' people would look at them strange. conversation at a till is fine, calling someone sir, very rarely

I've decided, if someone misgenders me, I'll simply misgender them, in return.

--
"You do realize, this means you get to do character creation & the newbie zone all over again? "

At work I always get called miss or ma'am even when I wear my binder, but I suppose my hair and body in general are mostly to blame for that since I'm pre-everything (and not even out yet some friends aside). When I'm out and I wear my binder along with a not-so feminine outfit (I kind of have an androgynous style; pretty much a style that doesn't imply female nor male but I do wear female clothing because I'm pretty small and slim and even a men's XS can be too big on me lol), I've noticed that people don't use any titles for me, which I actually quite like.

Anyway, I suppose it really mostly is the hair. Mine is somewhere between my ears and my shoulders and I badly need a haircut, but it's cut in a pretty feminine way, and that's usually what 'gives me away'.

Well, what have you done during your transition? Hormones, long hair, makeup? A pic would be optimal, but with some details about your look we might be able to help1

Quote from: MissKairi on August 03, 2017, 01:17:57 PM
Can I ask if this 'sir and mam' stuff is just in the States?
I'm in the UK and if a shopkeeper said 'sir' people would look at them strange. conversation at a till is fine, calling someone sir, very rarely

Many cultures add titles into the conversation.  The US is known for addressing others with "Sir/Ma'am" and other titles to show respect.  We have to do it all the time in the military, and I hate it, so I ask everyone who knows about me to just refer to me by my rank and last name.

Quote from: MissKairi on August 03, 2017, 01:17:57 PM
Can I ask if this 'sir and mam' stuff is just in the States?
I'm in the UK and if a shopkeeper said 'sir' people would look at them strange. conversation at a till is fine, calling someone sir, very rarely

Quote from: Leila94 on August 03, 2017, 12:25:06 PM
...Today is, in effect, the first day I've been out and about as a girl in London.

And what do you know, people call me 'sir' even more than when I was cis. Every single person - anyone behind the counter of shops I've been in, people at the supermarket checkout - they don't look twice or even hesitate, it's 'sir'. ...

Looks like she was in the UK when the misgendering took place.

The US has a culture where gendering people is part of social interaction.  Being misgendered was the most devastating thing for me when I transitioned.  I have overcome that problem now, but there was no single thing i changed that stopped it.  It was a culmination of mannerisms, appearance, presentation, voice, and presence that finally stopped it. 

It happened to me the other day on the phone at work while talking to a woman in another department.  I was taken aback, and really did not think she was referring to me when she said his and him as she spoke to another woman who was on the call, too.  I told my boss about how it upset me and she asked if she could call the woman and tell her about it.  I said yes, and the lady that misgendered me apologized all over herself.  It had not happened for a year, and it still crushed me.

Hang in there, Leila, it is part of the transition, but it does get better. 

Sadly it will still happen at times. My suggestion, get on hrt as soon as possible. I lived as a female for a year before i could even has a T blocker, and then an additonal 5 months before E as I moved to a new place. It suuuuuuccckkked. Even early last year i was still getting that crap. But I do have a timbit for ya:

Its not just hormones that will make or break ya, or even make up. It is total attitude. I have allowed my feminitiy to come out more this year then i ever had before. I started going back on E again 7 or 8 months ago and by March I was getting 'she'd', 'her'd' and ' ma'am'' more then i ever had before. It is also how your project yourself hun. I now have some people who tell me that had i not told them i am trans the woudlnt know. It takes time but you can do it <3

I learned the hard way that the only way to stop men, especially younger ones, from "sirring" me was to put on a show of cleavage.  For some reason, men respond to boobs.  Legs work too.  If I wear shoes rat enough shorts, I don't get called "sir."

Just wait until YOU mis-gender another trans person. (It happens, Unfortunately)

First thing I learned, all those, people that insulted guy mode with feminine terms?
Yeah, those are gonna do a 180 on ya. Forget it, haters going to hate.

On the upside, Having the same people, calling me girly, or saying don't be such a woman, suddenly start saying, sir and but your a man. Defo made me luagth at them. (Idiots know nothing of gender)

Will each mis-gendering be Intended? no. Sometimes the person that does it will fell bad, and hope you don't notice.
Also, we walk in like a wrecking ball, and when we meet people for the first time, we scramble the gender recognition box.

I was in a club once, and their was a comedian on, I was wearing Blue jeans, and a red and white stripped jumper, I was noticed, the comedian said, I think i''ve just found where's wally. OMG i died inside, I wanted to leave and run a million mile, but the drinks had been bought.

Anyway, the gender Implication couldnt of been closer from their mind. A little while later, less then a minuet, they said before anything ells, "Oh should that be wonda"

I took offence at wally, because wally is a man. I noticed the gender, the comedian just noticed the colour of my clothing.

If people Mis gender you persistently yeah its definitely on purpose. But allow a person one or two, Before placing them in your box of smarties.

Smarties being the 180 of ideots

Quote from: MissKairi on August 03, 2017, 01:17:57 PM
Can I ask if this 'sir and mam' stuff is just in the States?
I'm in the UK and if a shopkeeper said 'sir' people would look at them strange. conversation at a till is fine, calling someone sir, very rarely

I don't hear it THAT often here in the UK, but often enough that it doesn't seem all that strange. When I worked at a grocery store I had a couple of colleagues that "sir'd" the customers, though I never did. Maybe it varies with region, though!

Thank you for all the replies lovelies.

Quote from: echo7 on August 03, 2017, 12:56:32 PM
How long is your hair?  Hair length is a primary indicator of gender.  People glance at hair length and make instant assumptions on gender.  Oftentimes shoulder-length hair alone will elicit female gendering.

It's shoulder-length and female-styled =P To be honest...seems to me that hair length is a bit like voice pitch, in that it's much less of a gender identifier than it's made out to be. Just a shame because when I saw myself post-cut in the salon, no make-up and I thought.....wooo, I look like a girl! But then, as my sister said, the way you look when you leave Toni and Guy, you will never look like that again...

Quote from: MissKairi on August 03, 2017, 01:17:57 PM
Can I ask if this 'sir and mam' stuff is just in the States?
I'm in the UK and if a shopkeeper said 'sir' people would look at them strange. conversation at a till is fine, calling someone sir, very rarely

Ehh I gotta disagree! I've always lived in the UK, and there's a definite proportion of people working in food/retail/customer service that use 'sir'. Misogynistically, 'madam' is much rarer. It's pathetic really, this fawning over the men, "Yes sir, of course sir"... But yeah definitely, in shops, it's not exactly standard. Even yesterday, it was probably only about half of the people I spoke to.

Quote from: Tommi on August 03, 2017, 01:26:13 PM
I've decided, if someone misgenders me, I'll simply misgender them, in return.

Perfect. I'll put that straight into action.

Thanks to the rest of you for the stories and support. We're all different. I've decided, and I don't know how long this resolution will last, that I'm trans and there's no point pretending to be cis. I think anyone with half a brain (so, going by yesterday, half of Londoners) will see someone with a man's body, women's hair and clothes, and think, "that person is trans", and that's good enough for me at the moment. The female mannerisms I'll practise over time - I watched myself in a mirror yesterday and realised that these hand movements and so on that I thought were feminine, were subtly wrong, and in fact masculine (though camp). So at least I know some of what I'm doing 'wrong'.

All this said, the first 'sir' today will probably plunge me back into despair...