I'm 20 months on hrt and havnt had electrolysis. Next week will be my first treatment, the lady who's doing it said that the hair follicles will be killed for good after 5 sessions. Is that because Ive been on hormones for so long that it weakened the hairs?

Not all of your hair is at a point in the growth cycle where it can be killed. Some hair will be killed on the first round while others will have to fall out and regrow before they can be killed. Add to that not being able to clear all the hair in on session and you unfortunately can end out with 200 hours of treatment before you are clear. The good side is I haven't seen an electrologist in over 30 years and other than a dozen hairs, my face is clean.

Quote from: Dena on August 05, 2017, 01:23:47 PM
Not all of your hair is at a point in the growth cycle where it can be killed. Some hair will be killed on the first round while others will have to fall out and regrow before they can be killed. Add to that not being able to clear all the hair in on session and you unfortunately can end out with 200 hours of treatment before you are clear. The good side is I haven't seen an electrologist in over 30 years and other than a dozen hairs, my face is clean.

so why did she tell me that after 5 treatments I won't have to shave ever again.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on August 05, 2017, 02:04:33 PM
so why did she tell me that after 5 treatments I won't have to shave ever again.

She can't possibly know that, Angelique. Run away from her as fast as you can. Estrogen does make hair more susceptible to kill. It also generally makes the patient less tolerant to the accompanying pain that's inherent with the procedure. There's just no way to know how long it will take to permanently clear you. Way too many variables.  If she can clear your face forever in 5 sessions, she's the best I've ever heard of. Might ask her if she'll guarantee it. But don't hold your breath on that one. 

Quote from: jentay1367 on August 05, 2017, 03:02:32 PM
She can't possibly know that, Angelique. Run away from her as fast as you can. Estrogen does make hair more susceptible to kill. It also generally makes the patient less tolerant to the accompanying pain that's inherent with the procedure. There's just no way to know how long it will take to permanently clear you. Way too many variables.  If she can clear your face forever in 5 sessions, she's the best I've ever heard of. Might ask her if she'll guarantee it. But don't hold your breath on that one.

she has worked on other mtf transgenders. She's also charging $300 per session.

I've had a ton of laser/electrolysis.  The "5 and done" line is to get you started and paying.  Most transwomen require far more treatment than this.  I'm still doing occasional electrolysis touch ups 10 years down the road.

FWIW I typically pay $60-75 per hour.

Quote from: rmaddy on August 05, 2017, 03:20:36 PM
I've had a ton of laser/electrolysis.  The "5 and done" line is to get you started and paying.  Most transwomen require far more treatment than this.  I'm still doing occasional electrolysis touch ups 10 years down the road.

FWIW I typically pay $60-75 per hour.

so why is she charging $300 per session?

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on August 05, 2017, 03:49:02 PM
so why is she charging $300 per session?

Because she can. How long is a session? An hour?, four hours? "a session is not a quantitative amount of time. Electrolysis from one practitioner is generally between 50 and 120 dollars per hour.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on August 05, 2017, 03:49:02 PM
so why is she charging $300 per session?

Cost is not necessarily indicative of skill or experience....it could just come down to simple supply and demand.

There's no magic potion with hair removal.  Proper laser is pretty effective if you have the right skin and hair colour....but isn't 100% guaranteed at killing all the hair.  As for electrolysis, it's one follicle at a time and then you to need to retreat for different growth cycles.  The only way to speed it up is have multiple people working your face at a time, long sessions or both.

Angelique  Glad to have you back. $300. To bad you don't live in Tacoma because I can recommend the most talented ladies in the Puget Sound area. Nanci and Kristi are fantastic. Nanci is a little faster ans does it less painfully. We have noticed less pain the last few sessions because I increased my water intake and reduced my caffeine intake. I also now take supplements to improve collagen generation. The girls charge a dollar a minute. The $300 dollar charge seems to be for the 5 treatments as $60 an hour. I am 20 hours in and estimate I may have 20 hours more. These ladies are very good but the best they can do is maybe 300 hairs an hour and your noggin has between 10,000 and 40,000 hairs. If you are also doing your body add another year on to it. If your are considering GCS you will have to get Australia (down under) taken care of too. I also use a lidocaine/prilocaine cream to deaden the pain.

Hi Angelique, There is a lot of variance and stories about electrolysis, much true but in different contexts. I have had several laser sessions (which did not seem to help much at all for me, ymmv), 6 or 8 hours of "conventional" electrolysis and ~75 hours of electrolysis at E3000.

As I was told by my first electrology technician, a "typical" transgender woman requires in the range of 200 to 400 hours in the chair; at $60 to $100/hr, you do the math. The technician would be able to get it done more quickly but most patients can not handle the pain involved and thus the operator works more slowly. I get my work done at E3000 in Lewisville Texas. There they numb my face with lidocaine injections (quite painful in their own right) and then with two operators working do a total clearing of my face in one day. I then take 6 to 8 weeks off and travel back to Texas for another session. The estimate that their average client requires ~90 operator hours spread over 12 visits and a year and a half to produce a hair free face with only occasional maintenance required after that. The reason for so much less total hours is that they can work much faster with my face numb and me not wincing with each zap. By the way, they charge $110 per operator hour for facial work and $160 per operator hour for work in the groin area. It is more cheaply done in Texas but requires lots of travel and flexibility if you are still working.

If I was strong enough to take the pain I probably would have stayed with my original technician but that would have probably take 3 to 4 years to get the job done. As it is I am glad that I found where I go now.

Good luck on your journey,
Anne

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on August 05, 2017, 03:49:02 PM
so why is she charging $300 per session?

How long is the session? If it's 4-5 hours, she's in the right ballpark.  If it's one hour, you're being ripped off.

I think everything has been pretty much covered but I would like to stress to you the importance of proper prep for your session. Take it as a serious procedure and do the basics, plenty of water, lots of moisturising in the days between session to keep skin hydrated, reduce caffeine, none is best prior to a session. Keep yourself as stress free prior. Plenty of sleep the night before, bring a stress ball, music, audiobook or something to help distract

HRT may increase you sensitivity to pain so taking an anti-inflammatory 1/2 hour before may help. You may require the use of numbing cream or similar. I have personally only been able to tolerate most of it because I have had dental blocks and facial injections prior to my last 25-30 sessions. I still have two facial block session to redo my top lip and nose. I can now use Emla cream for the very light hairs that have grown back and do not require further injections.

Everyone's tolerance to pain is different but do not underestimate the pain involved. I personally had great difficulty tolerating it, however it may end up to be no big deal for you.

Each area of your face will need to be done about 5 times, because not all hairs are in a growth phase at once.  But she can't cover the whole face in one session.  Mine can do about half a square inch in an hour-long session.  She'll have to do each half-square-inch 5 times.

Quote from: KathyLauren on August 06, 2017, 11:34:34 AM
Each area of your face will need to be done about 5 times, because not all hairs are in a growth phase at once.  But she can't cover the whole face in one session.  Mine can do about half a square inch in an hour-long session.  She'll have to do each half-square-inch 5 times.

And to add a caveat to what Kathy says, that's if she's really, really good and has a high kill rate. Every hair is not killed off with every removal. Some are relentless, particularly the ones around the mouth where the blood flow is so high. Add to that, they can't use as much power in those areas because most of us are so sensitive in that area. I've had those areas cleared numerous times only to see the hairs come back again and again. I've heard other women say electro  was the hardest part of their transitions

Hi Angelique,

    I think anyone (myself included) would like to have the process done as quickly as possible but all the research and testimony into it tells me that wont be the case.  It seems to me that your electrolysis tech may be very optimistic but I'm curious has she seen you in person or did you set everything up over the phone?  If she saw you in person she may have assessed that you had light facial hair (something we on this board can not do) and that is what she's basing her estimate on.

    I'm not trying to plug a company but a place called "Electrology 3000" says it will take about 6 or more visits with them (every 6 to 8 weeks) to clear average growth in that area and they start out (first session or two) with 2 techs working on you for 12 or more hours for 1 or two days... they are only able to do that because they use pain blocking meds (the same ones used for dental work) so that should give you some idea as to how long it will take. 

    I am personally thinking about using the Electrology 3000 option because of speed (almost if not completely cleared in a year) and the costs work out to be about the same) but it is a lot of money in lump sums to be coming up with every 6 to 8 weeks even if it works out to be about the same price as my local tech who charges 80 dollars an hour...if it were 300 dollars an hour I would seriously be looking at other places as that seems high.

    Whatever you decide to do I hope it works out well.

Hugs
Emily

I would like to offer an opinion regarding Emily's last post. If you have a good tech. local to you that is effective, it's substantially less traumatic to have them do your face than the mass clearers. Add to that, every time you go to a mass clearer, you will need a week for the swelling to go down before you're publicly presentable and their is a large fee for the lidocaine injections. In my case, 500.00 per session. So that added expense as well as the skin trauma and possible scarring or damage makes it a questionable option if as I stated, you have a good tech you can easily visit on a weekly basis. The key is to go each and every week till it's dead, dead, dead.

I agree with what Jentay said. I did one hour twice a week and after around a year, the hair was thin enough and slow growing enough that I could stop shaving between appointments. I still had a few more years of spaced out appointments to the the remainder of the growth but I was able to go full time and the growing out didn't show through makeup. By the following day after treatment, any redness was gone and a hour on the table is far easer on the body than 8 hours with two people working on you.

I had facial Injections for about 20 + sessions, this means the tech can work with higher currents and achieve a faster/higher kill rate. But like any of this there is always a down side. The injections do not take the pain away completely in all areas as there may not be enough skin and muscle for the Lidocaine to sit in. The most effective for me are Dental Blocks...

Standard injections in the face seem to work best on the neck and then get progressively less effective around the lips and chin(dental blocks are better for these area's)

Because Anesthetic is used, the patient feedback to the operator is dulled therefore burning is more likely to occur along with skin damage. Places like E3000 are very experienced so far less likly but with others you may want to be careful. Poor technique will end up leaving you red and scarred.

My electrologist told me not to moisturize before and after sessions. You do not want clog the pores which can reduce treatment effectiveness and cause irritation after. She also said the drier the skin, the higher setting that can be used.