Yes, tonight I came home and got to see videos of Ben Shaprio doing what he does best. Telling people that transgender people do not exist because at the end of the day, it comes down to chromosomes and only chromosomes... Anyways i am kinda feeling weird about this. One man and one woman I went to middle school with posted this on their walls with the video being titled ''why do you fall for the transgender agenda''. It is a bit weird given that one seemed to be cool with trans people and the other, the female has never made any real poltical post since I first had her on fb. They both went to the same middle school I did back in Victoria British Columbia. Victoria known for its extreme liberal attitudes on LGBT since even the 1980s, it is hard to beleive people in my generation that I knew from that amazingly open minded city would post these things. Not just that, but I lost what little of a friendship i had with this one girl who was going to transition to a man then became a TERF.

Well as a blk person do you think I would hang around folk that chill with say aryan nation members  ?
In other words keep ur distance from trash like that


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Victoria will have some people that are less open. That being said, Victoria is very liberal in general with a strong LGBT community. They will find that sooner or later they will get called out on such views (whether you do it or not). I can't think of many better places to transition...

If you would like to link to something, I would suggest you link to Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. The women in the image were born XY and reached testosterone levels that would have masculinized men however from birth, their body has appeared fully feminine and they have never been uncomfortable with their femininity.

Awesome ! Thank you!!

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on August 10, 2017, 08:38:56 PM
Yes, tonight I came home and got to see videos of Ben Shaprio doing what he does best. Telling people that transgender people do not exist because at the end of the day, it comes down to chromosomes and only chromosomes... Anyways i am kinda feeling weird about this. One man and one woman I went to middle school with posted this on their walls with the video being titled ''why do you fall for the transgender agenda''. It is a bit weird given that one seemed to be cool with trans people and the other, the female has never made any real poltical post since I first had her on fb. They both went to the same middle school I did back in Victoria British Columbia. Victoria known for its extreme liberal attitudes on LGBT since even the 1980s, it is hard to beleive people in my generation that I knew from that amazingly open minded city would post these things. Not just that, but I lost what little of a friendship i had with this one girl who was going to transition to a man then became a TERF.

I think the road goes both ways. It doesn't really bother me if people hold opinions I disagree with. I have friends on both extreme ends of the conservative/liberal spectrum. We can disagree all day long, sometimes quite fervently, but we're still friends.

Quote from: Dena on August 10, 2017, 09:28:58 PM
If you would like to link to something, I would suggest you link to Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. The women in the image were born XY and reached testosterone levels that would have masculinized men however from birth, their body has appeared fully feminine and they have never been uncomfortable with their femininity.

This is the right kind of argument. Using information to expose the truth.

He's not a biologist, let alone a geneticist. I'm getting real tired of the mouth breathers.


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I went looking for the YouTube you got from yours friends and don't think I found it, but I did see a couple of Ben Shapiro's videos.  He is very good at his job maybe due to going to Harvard Law School.  Maybe??  For the less experienced or those inclined to his way of thinking it can be persuasive.  Especially if the viewer is a conservative christian.  I would approach him differently than I saw.  But this is not relevant.
For your situation, Dena gave a good link as a response.  Science seldom works but at least it is truth.
There is a chuck of the population that will never get it (us).  We can't fix them.  They will die with their beliefs based on their opinions and religious convictions. I know the only reason the Flat Earth Society went out of existence is they all died off. 
Try to engage them gently.  Do not argue.  If possible try to keep the at least BF friends.  But do not become social until you know they have evolved which more then likely will not happen.  And move on with your life.
One interesting approach is his argument that men are men and women are women.  My response would have been that I am not interested in being a woman.  i don't know what they are.  i just know I am not a man and prefer to present as female. And don't presuppose that I am a woman.  I am just my authentic self.

The Facebook thing can be tough. I saw a link to that as well because some distant acquaintance liked it. Sometimes I engage with people in the comments, mostly I try not to. Even when I put up scientific information there will some die hard who says it's all just theory.

Kinda why a while back I wrote a short paper about how all humans form in utero. There are so many variables that can be just off a bit to vary form the "normal" cis gendered baby.

AIS androgen insensitivity exists because of mutations in the AR (androgen receptor) gene. This gene builds the receptors molecular structure. There are over 400 known mutations catalogued for this gene alone that have varying effects on the uptake of androgen hormones.

Other important gene regulated chemicals include AntiMullerian Hormone (this makes the female structures fade away in males), alpha5-reductase (enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone), testes determining factor (protein that activates the male portion of Porto gonads to active cells to produce AMH).

That's just a quick once over of the biggest players. All of these things can be disrupted by either gene issues or outside chemicals. Chromosomes and genes only provide the "program" for the body to form. It's the interaction in stages of them various chemicals that make things grow or not grow.

I have even got into it with religious types. Using historical facts and the actual surrounding texts usually shuts them up. I did shut down a baptist minister once with facts.

You can count one thing on this planet. Ignorant morons will always have an opinion about everything. Particularly the things they know nothing about. And they are legion. Hell, watch our President, he's the archetype.

Don't let them get you down, I've seen the argument multiple times online, people are holding on to it like it is their anchor, and it really is all they have against us at this point.  It is their go to, whenever they want to try to justify their bigotry, because they believe it is rooted in science.  It is almost certain, that when I watch a video regarding transsexuals or read a news article, the chromosomes argument is brought up frequently. 

It is easy to argue against though, chromosomes do not always define sex. 

I think ultimately, the world is rapidly changing, a lot of these people are terrified of these changes, and grasp on to anything they think they can tear apart to bring back what they are used to.  Gender being a foundation of their world view is not as black and white as they want it to be, and they are having a hard time coming to terms with that.

These people are not going to give up anytime soon, to them, the world is crumbling into utter chaos and they are driven by paranoia and fear.  Any attempt I have made with reasoning with them, often goes down the rabbit hole of insanity, and it becomes apparent just how scared they really are.  They will often argue against the terms homophobia or transphobia, because they claim they are not afraid of us, but that could not be further from the truth, what we represent terrifies them. 

There is a big movement of them on youtube, but eventually I think it will fizzle out, as they slowly get used to their new surroundings, and realize it is not as bad as they used to perceive it.  A lot of them are very paranoid, and prone to believing conspiracies.  Whatever you do, don't get caught up in their current of fear, because it is very easy to get pulled away in it.

How does that saying go? Ah, yes. Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Quote from: Dena on August 10, 2017, 09:28:58 PM
If you would like to link to something, I would suggest you link to Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. The women in the image were born XY and reached testosterone levels that would have masculinized men however from birth, their body has appeared fully feminine and they have never been uncomfortable with their femininity.

Thank you. We had a CAIS Member here some time ago.
Its Something I reference all the time.

Its science and fact.

I point them to these things, explain they should do some research and that before they do, they don't know what they are talking about.

If one really wants to debate those types and sometimes i have to admit i do, there is a large body of evidence that refutes everything those types say. Including McCugh and others. Other times, yeah why even deal with their junk online or otherwise?

Ultimately, why do they care about our "agenda" as though living our lives authentically and having basic human rights etc is hurting them in some way? Its not. They are driven by fear of a collapsing power structure and change that makes them feel uncomfortable. Some people believe that our acceptance will drive others to "join us" and that sort of diverse world where there are alternatives scares them to death.

At the root of all of it is fear.

Quote from: RobynD on August 11, 2017, 04:46:06 PM

Ultimately, why do they care about our "agenda" as though living our lives authentically and having basic human rights etc is hurting them in some way? 

I'll argue that point. I think many of them are afraid of their own feelings. Much like the self loathing gay man who runs around making ->-bleeped-<- jokes and trumpeting his disgust. As has been said,
"the opposite of love is not hate, rather it's indifference".
The person who takes their time to hate us and voice it, is hardly indifferent. Or as Shakespeare so eloquently stated, and I'm paraphrasing  "The jerk doth protest too much, methinks".

Quote from: Jessica Lynne on August 11, 2017, 05:07:44 PM
I'll argue that point. I think many of them are afraid of their own feelings. Much like the self loathing gay ( trans) man (Woman) who runs around making ->-bleeped-<- jokes and trumpeting his (her)  disgust. As has been said,
"the opposite of love is not hate, rather it's indifference".
The person who takes their time to hate us and voice it, is hardly indifferent. Or as Shakespeare so eloquently stated, and I'm paraphrasing  "The jerk doth protest too much, methinks".

Just had to make some minor adjustments to your post Jessica. But yes, I hate to admit it when I was 15 or so I was very much like that.... Always had to somehow show i was regular. My self loathing didnt just involve my trans and bisexual nature. Nope, i denied i had any form of Autism because I wanted to beleive there was no such thing as anyone being Neurologically untypical. Despite my offical diagnosis was at that very age. I wanted to deny my own race, I wasnt half native I would tell people. I would say i was just white. my then GF once she found out I was Native too wanted to tell someone as she thought it was cool, but I was adament she will never tell anyone and we kinda had a small tizzy over it. Even as my my skin colour alone clearly shows I am clearly Native in additon to Irish. I was the definition of self loather.

To be honest I dont know why I hated myself so much to deny just about everything. But yes, I was petty.

Many of us were that way, Ash. I was too.  Our lizard brains want to get the mob or herds confirmation.  It's the people that walk from the herd and blaze their own path and are like you that are the ones worth knowing. They're always the one that makes the difference and they're the ones who think outside the box. If you're thirty anything years old and you're still staring at and sniffing the sheeps next to you's ass, you can count on you're doing something wrong. You learned and many don't.  Ive met many a 70 year old that hasn't learned anything since they got out of high school. Be proud of your learning curve.

Quote from: Jessica Lynne on August 11, 2017, 09:28:06 PM
Many of us were that way, Ash. I was too.  Our lizard brains want to get the mob or herds confirmation.  It's the people that walk from the herd and blaze their own path and are like you that are the ones worth knowing. They're always the one that makes the difference and they're the ones who think outside the box. If you're thirty anything years old and you're still staring at and sniffing the sheeps next to you's ass, you cant count on you're doing something wrong. You learned and many don't.  Ive met many a 70 year old that hasn't learned anything since they got out of high school. Be proud of your learning curve.

Helpful and nice things like this make me happy! Love ya girl!

My pleasure...hugs to you!