Hello everyone! Im a member from Hairlosstalk.com.  im here to find out what dosage of estradiol i could take with minimal feminising effects on my body. I am already on finasteride but its wreaking my hairline and im now like a norwood 2.5 at 20 years old. Im also on oral minoxidil and shedding heavily. I'll get straight to the point:

What dose of estradiol could i take to have an effect on hair?
Would my penis shrink? ( i have to ask this )
Do i need to be on spiro too? Ive tried it and have pills left over but i just shed alot on it.
Would a mild MTF regiment have significant effects on my body?  ( i dont mind psychological or mild physical side effects)
Where could i buy cheap, legit estradiol online?

Just to clarify i am a cisgender straight male, i realise what im wanting to do is crazy since im not trans but this hair loss problem is ruining my life. I dont care about relationships, etc im doing this for me. Thank you all and i hope i get some real answers

Just

Hello, thank you for joining Susan's and for posting.  I am MTF.

Some of the questions you are asking are best answered by a doctor.  To provide an accurate answer requires an understanding of your medical background, test measurements and several other factors - things that are routine for the right medical specialist.  I am not trying to avoid your question but medical health is something where guessing incorrectly can have a bad result.  One thing we don't allow on Susan's is the discussion of specific HRT dosage.

We always provide information to new members and I will add it here for you. 

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I am glad you posted and joined.  I'll also suggest please check out the Introductions forum, a great place to say hello and introduce yourself.  Welcome!

Kendra

Talk to your doctor about finasteride or dutasterid. Leave spiro and estrogen alone, unless you are trans.

Hi. I'm Julia.  Kendra is right that you need to see a Dr. If your losing a lot of hair at 20 years old you need to talk to a Dr. Have you had your thyroid tested? A couple of my clients had thyroid problems and lost a lot of hair. But after they started thyroid medication their hair grew back. I don't know if a really low dose of estrogen would help to stop your hair loss. Some of the girls here were able to stop and even reverse some hair loss with hrt but at the doses they take it would cause major changes physically.

When you take estrogen yes, there is penis shrinkage and it would interfere with your erections. It would also feminize your facial features. I understand not wanting to be bald but if you want a normal sex life as a man you might have to deal with thinning hair. How much hair have you lost and do you have any noticible thin spots?

MOst likely your penis will shrink and possibly become dysfunctional for heterosexual sex.  So will your testicles and it will likely make you sterile.  Estrogen is anti-Viagra (although you're probably not likely to see those commercials on cable anytime soon.)

Thank you for the replies, why is specific dosing not allowed to discussed? Also i dont believe a doctor would take me seriously. I dont see what could end in a bad result as im under the impression that with cessation things would return to normal eventually. Hormone altering drugs do not phase me at all, i just want one thing and that is to regrow my hair.

And Rachel, if you read my post properly you would see im already on finasteride with no success at all. i have already stated that im not bothered by the fact that trans people use these drugs. You use these drugs to help you feel more comfortable in your body and it is the same reason im looking to use them. Our only difference is our reasons for doing so.

If most of questions are unable to be answered could i be pointed in the direction of trustworthy websites that sell legit estradiol at a decent price?

Julia, Its not a thyroid problem, its androgenic alopecia, characteristic with a receding hairline. Finasteride seems to have had an adverse reaction on me and has accelerated my hair loss quite a bit

Other poster, ( forgot your username, sorry! ) Thats what i thought, cant hurt to try though. I dont care about relationships, sex, etc. I do find woman attractive but i have no desire to pursue relationships with them. I just want my hair back.

Thanks again all and take care

Talking about specific doseges isn't allowed because they don't want to encourage people to do the hrt without medical supervision.<comment removed>I can't suggest dosages to you because I really don't know how much estrogen might help your hair loss without changing your body. <comment removed> You should also know that some effects of long term estrogen use will be irreversible.
Good luck.

Moderators edit: There is info here that might help a person to self medicate.

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:57:30 PM
Thank you for the replies, why is specific dosing not allowed to discussed?

It throws the door wide open to disinformation and potentially dangerous self-management of potentially dangerous substances without sufficient training.

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:57:30 PMAlso i dont believe a doctor would take me seriously.

What exactly do you potential want taken seriously?  If it is a) your intense desire to stop or reverse hair loss through all rational means, then yes, this should be taken quite seriously.  If it is b) your desire to pursue off label use of medications unencumbered by the nuisance of medical evidence, then perhaps not.

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:57:30 PMI dont see what could end in a bad result as im under the impression that with cessation things would return to normal eventually. Hormone altering drugs do not phase me at all, i just want one thing and that is to regrow my hair.

Don't phase you at all?  What does that even mean?  One of my partners at work has a mug which reads, "Please don't confuse your Google search with my medical degree".  A bit haughty, I admit, but there is at least a kernel of wisdom in there.

Maddy, that expression meant that im not deterred by the effects that using estradiol will bring as long as i get what i want.

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 07:24:35 PM
Maddy, that expression meant that im not deterred by the effects that using estradiol will bring as long as i get what i want.

And the evidence you will get what you want was what again?   

Welcome to Susan's Place. With estradiol levels sufficient to affect hair growth you would experiences feminization and could run a risk of blood clots and liver failure. Regular monitoring is required to check for both condition until it's known how your body handles the treatment. For most people this isn't a problem but smokers, people who use excessive amounts of alcohol, people who have/had hepatitis and others with genetic conditions are at risk.

Spiro was developed as a blood pressure medication with the interesting side effect of blocking testosterone. There are four potential problems with the drug.
1. It lowers blood pressure, sometimes really low on the required dosage.
2. It causes you to pass a lot of water and you could need a gallon or more a day to remain hydrated.
3. It passes salt so you need to learn how much salt is required to maintain a proper balance.
4. It cause the body to retain potassium. This is the same mineral that is used in executions to stop  the heart from functioning.

Under proper medical instruction and training, Spiro is a safe drug to take but you are risking your life taking it with out proper medical monitoring.

As we don't wish to contribute to somebodies death, all discussion of dosages is forbidden as well as aiding somebody in obtaining drugs without a prescription.

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:00:01 PM
Hello everyone! Im a member from Hairlosstalk.com.  im here to find out what dosage of estradiol i could take with minimal feminising effects on my body. I am already on finasteride but its wreaking my hairline and im now like a norwood 2.5 at 20 years old. Im also on oral minoxidil and shedding heavily. I'll get straight to the point:

What dose of estradiol could i take to have an effect on hair?
Would my penis shrink? ( i have to ask this )
Do i need to be on spiro too? Ive tried it and have pills left over but i just shed alot on it.
Would a mild MTF regiment have significant effects on my body?  ( i dont mind psychological or mild physical side effects)
Where could i buy cheap, legit estradiol online?

Just to clarify i am a cisgender straight male, i realise what im wanting to do is crazy since im not trans but this hair loss problem is ruining my life. I dont care about relationships, etc im doing this for me. Thank you all and i hope i get some real answers

Just

I've been balding since 14. Taking any dose of E didn't change things at all IMO. SOme of us just don't win the gene-pool Lotto 

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:57:30 PM
Thank you for the replies, why is specific dosing not allowed to discussed? Also i dont believe a doctor would take me seriously. I dont see what could end in a bad result as im under the impression that with cessation things would return to normal eventually. Hormone altering drugs do not phase me at all, i just want one thing and that is to regrow my hair.

Hi and welcome to the site.


There are a number of people who have indeed had permanent effects from HRT. At 20 years old you will probably  experience the development of many secondary sexual characteristics. It is likely that you will begin to grow breasts (pretty much like a 13 year old cis girl). Most people who take HRT in the way you are talking do grow breasts and they may shrink but never go away. Your face will likely become more feminine. The fats in your body will likely redistribute. Your skin will likely change.  Both your testes and your penis will likely shrink and you may have problems holding an erection without pain or chafing of the skin. Your libido may shift(most people tend to have it lowered although some have experienced the opposite). As others have mentioned, you may become sterile. These are just some of the additional shifts to your body with what you suggest. Many of them do not reverse easily.

Another change is usually in the brain. If you truly are cis, as claimed, adding estrogen will likely trigger dysphoria. You will feel like an assigned female at birth trans person. The wrong hormones are triggering the sensors in your brain. That is one of the main reasons many of us go through major transitions that become expensive, in time, money and mental health. Many of us in following this lose more money, respect, communities, faith, family, homes, jobs, health, and some, their lives.

I am not trying to be overly dramatic. These are facts. It is a strange option to have a cis person come to this forum without either  supporting a friend or family member who falls on the trans spectrum; or someone not accepting themselves. I am not arguing one way or another. However, I will ask if you are seeing a therapist and a dermatologist? I was wondering how you got doses of finasteride? Hormones are not something to mess with sans a doctors supervision. We have lost too many trans community members because they self medicated. It is plain dangerous.  The reason I asked about a therapist is this seems to be a big issue for you. You have stated this hair loss is ruining your life. Then you should seek every method available, medically, to you. Dermatologist to have your skin and hair analyzed, endocrinologist to give your HRT and monitor and adjust , and a therapist to help cope with the issues. Trans or not, that is the healthy way to approach this.

I feel like Yoda when you say you are not worried about hormones. You will be, you will be. Just joking a little. Seriously though. Messing with hormones on your own is very dangerous. That is why we want any member to approach this with gravity and medical assistance.

So like Dena stated. We cannot direct you to a reputable site to fulfill your wishes. I am sorry.

There is no reason a doctor would not take you seriously. If they don't, perhaps you should find another one. The other possibility is maybe like a trans person you need a therapist to intervene and let them know how serious it is to you.

Please, seek medical help in this. It is not diy project.

Warmly,

Jacqueline

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:57:30 PM
Thank you for the replies, why is specific dosing not allowed to discussed? Also i dont believe a doctor would take me seriously. I dont see what could end in a bad result as im under the impression that with cessation things would return to normal eventually. Hormone altering drugs do not phase me at all, i just want one thing and that is to regrow my hair.

And Rachel, if you read my post properly you would see im already on finasteride with no success at all. i have already stated that im not bothered by the fact that trans people use these drugs. You use these drugs to help you feel more comfortable in your body and it is the same reason im looking to use them. Our only difference is our reasons for doing so.

If most of questions are unable to be answered could i be pointed in the direction of trustworthy websites that sell legit estradiol at a decent price?

Julia, Its not a thyroid problem, its androgenic alopecia, characteristic with a receding hairline. Finasteride seems to have had an adverse reaction on me and has accelerated my hair loss quite a bit

Other poster, ( forgot your username, sorry! ) Thats what i thought, cant hurt to try though. I dont care about relationships, sex, etc. I do find woman attractive but i have no desire to pursue relationships with them. I just want my hair back.

Thanks again all and take care

Hi and welcome. I battled my MPB (crown and hairline)  for 2 years before my MTF transition. I used (and still use)  oral Finasteride and Minoxidil foam. Both these products can cause shedding before stopping further loss.
As others have said Estrogen is a very powerful chemical. Even IF you got some regrowth,  stopping the E would only allow the MPB to start again.
My (partial) solution was hair transplants,  something several here have done.
Plenty of men loose their hair early,  and can look very handsome keeping what they have closely cropped.
Is it worth you speaking with a therapist about your concerns about the hair loss, and trying accept it as part of you? Failing that,  I'd certainly suggest hair transplants before ever taking Estrogen.
Good luck! X


Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

Taking estrogen?  You're gonna grow boobs, and they will have to be surgically removed.  You will also lose your ability to ejaculate and may lose the ability to produce an erection.  And your libido will diminish to the point where you have little or no desire for sex.  Forget the hormones and just spend the money on hair restoration surgery while you still
have enough capillaries in your scalp to support new hair grafts.

Andy,

I do understand your dread of losing your hair.

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:00:01 PMim here to find out what dosage of estradiol i could take with minimal feminising effects on my body. I am already on finasteride but its wreaking my hairline and im now like a norwood 2.5 at 20 years old. Im also on oral minoxidil and shedding heavily. I'll get straight to the point:

I had a sinking feeling when you asked about dosage—not because it's wrong to ask, but because this forum does not allow disseminating that information. All I can safely say is that there is no single right dosage. Whether you go to a doctor or get hold of what's needed on your own, some experimentation will be necessary. In this sense, working with someone who can use tests to assess the concentrations and compare notes with what you yourself are observing is the safest. That said, I also know it can be expensive and perhaps seem embarrassing.

There's one thing I'm not sure I understood correctly—did you mean to say finasteride is wrecking your hairline? If so, according to what I read quite some time ago it can initially cause unusually high shedding as more hairs in the telogen (resting) phase drop out in preparation for a new anlagen (growth) cycle.

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:00:01 PMWhat dose of estradiol could i take to have an effect on hair?

All I can say is that while any dosage may possibly have some effect, that really is an unknown. Our bodies are different.

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:00:01 PMWould my penis shrink? ( i have to ask this )

Again, this is an unknown. Mine didn't, but I'm fairly sure most males would not like how it behaves. If yours would shrink or start to perform differently, how would you feel?

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:00:01 PMDo i need to be on spiro too? Ive tried it and have pills left over but i just shed alot on it.

I would venture to say no, if you want to just combat hair loss. Spironolactone blocks testosterone receptors, but the culprit for androgenic alopecia is thought to be dihydrotestosterone. For hair loss, 5α-Reductase inhibitors seem to be more commonly used.

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:00:01 PMWould a mild MTF regiment have significant effects on my body?  ( i dont mind psychological or mild physical side effects)

Given time, any hormone regimen may have a significant effect on your body.

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:00:01 PMWhere could i buy cheap, legit estradiol online?

I'm afraid that the legality of online drug purchases depends on the laws of the country you live in. Some countries allow sales to anyone that asks, without regulations. Some require a doctor's prescription. Where they're banned, there is no way to buy them online without breaking the law. As for price, it's usually the lowest where the drug is available over the counter without prescription—unless you have and use insurance to cover most of the cost. To do that, you'd need to work with a doctor, though.

By the way, where I live there are transgender-oriented clinics that will work with just about anyone to safely achieve even somewhat unconventional goals. There may be such clinics in your country as well. While such treatment may not be covered by insurance you may at least get the prescriptions you need. It may be worth some research.

Quote from: AnxiousandyHLT on August 30, 2017, 06:00:01 PMJust to clarify i am a cisgender straight male, i realise what im wanting to do is crazy since im not trans but this hair loss problem is ruining my life. I dont care about relationships, etc im doing this for me. Thank you all and i hope i get some real answers

Yes, I understand. Please understand that I'm not trying to discourage you... I'm just saying what I can within the rules of the forum.

I'm also quite curious. What drives your desire to keep your hair even at the expense of possibly looking female as a result? You say you're a heterosexual male, but don't care about relationships. You also say you don't even mind psychological effects of the hormones. It sounds like to you, your hair is one of your most important features. Has it always been like that?

Estrogen is incredibly unlikely to help you with preventing hair loss.

Given that you are taking finasteride and still have shedding, it's unlikely that your hair loss is directly caused by DHT (dihydrotestosterone) the main hormone involved in MPB. Thyroid issues are possible.