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WHAT DOES EQUALITY MEAN TO YOU?

Started by Vanny, September 09, 2017, 12:44:48 PM

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Vanny

If we want equality WHAT DOES that mean to you?

For me, equality is not being discriminated against for a job, apt, loan etc. 

Does it apply to military?  If so, why?  If so should it apply to every job function, combat, special forces etc?




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Michelle_P

Equality applies everywhere.  We are human beings with human rights.

We should not be subject to discrimination for simply existing. If someone realizes our nature, realized that we have or had some form of gender incongruity, that should not be the basis for eviction, firing, or refusing service in a public business or accommodation.

My being a transgender person simply describes how I got here, in my case, taking a. circuitous path to becoming a mature woman.   I AM a mature woman, and should be treated as any other woman.   You know, 70% of male pay, higher price to dry clean a shirt, what passes for equality in a patriarchal Western culture...[emoji6]

Yes, our culture has work to do on the whole equality thing, but we will get there eventually. Progress is incremental and generational, as better adjusted folks move into power over time.

Give it a century or two...


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Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
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Kylo

To me equality of opportunity and the right to basic rights and freedoms and protections that other people also have would be the sort of equality I would want and strive for.

However. It has to be applied on a case-by-case basis. Absolute equality is impossible. And in some cases, granting the same rights and freedoms to certain groups as to others is not wise. For example, granting children all the same rights as adults, or allowing disabled persons to enter professions that would clearly be dangerous to them and those around them.

The fact is people are not all the same. They have different abilities and strengths. One should not lose sight of reality in the hunt for equality.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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WolfNightV4X1

Equality isn't simply applied to wages, jobs, etc.


Equality SHOULD be that all people should have the capability to present, act, behave, and live in the way that is natural and comfortable to them. Being too general is pretty difficult to explain, so as an example gender roles play a huge factor, if a girl can wear a certain shirt but a guy can't or vice versa, that's inequality.


Nobody is inherently better or more deserving or ALLOWED certain things than another. Equal means equal. No double standards, no discrimination, just living!


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DawnOday

Equality is nothing more than having the same human rights of those that are trying to take yours away
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

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First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



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Laurie

Quote from: DawnOday on September 09, 2017, 05:20:11 PM
Equality is nothing more than having the same human rights of those that are trying to take yours away

I like your definition Dawn.  :eusa_clap:
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DawnOday

Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

If you have a a business or service that supports our community please submit for our Links Page.

First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



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Vanny

Quote from: DawnOday on September 09, 2017, 09:49:12 PM
Laurie  Thank You.
Love this one.  Thanks,  But What about Military -i.e. SPECIAL OP's.?


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Vanny

Quote from: WolfNightV4X1 on September 09, 2017, 05:19:24 PM
Equality isn't simply applied to wages, jobs, etc.


Equality SHOULD be that all people should have the capability to present, act, behave, and live in the way that is natural and comfortable to them. Being too general is pretty difficult to explain, so as an example gender roles play a huge factor, if a girl can wear a certain shirt but a guy can't or vice versa, that's inequality.


Nobody is inherently better or more deserving or ALLOWED certain things than another. Equal means equal. No double standards, no discrimination, just living!
Thank you. Are there any exceptions to equality i.e. Military perhaps Special Ops?


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Vanny

Quote from: Viktor on September 09, 2017, 05:05:50 PM
To me equality of opportunity and the right to basic rights and freedoms and protections that other people also have would be the sort of equality I would want and strive for.

However. It has to be applied on a case-by-case basis. Absolute equality is impossible. And in some cases, granting the same rights and freedoms to certain groups as to others is not wise. For example, granting children all the same rights as adults, or allowing disabled persons to enter professions that would clearly be dangerous to them and those around them.

The fact is people are not all the same. They have different abilities and strengths. One should not lose sight of reality in the hunt for equality.
Thanks so much for your response!  What would be some possible exceptions in your mind? 


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Vanny

Quote from: Michelle_P on September 09, 2017, 02:21:29 PM
Equality applies everywhere.  We are human beings with human rights.

We should not be subject to discrimination for simply existing. If someone realizes our nature, realized that we have or had some form of gender incongruity, that should not be the basis for eviction, firing, or refusing service in a public business or accommodation.

My being a transgender person simply describes how I got here, in my case, taking a. circuitous path to becoming a mature woman.   I AM a mature woman, and should be treated as any other woman.   You know, 70% of male pay, higher price to dry clean a shirt, what passes for equality in a patriarchal Western culture...[emoji6]

Yes, our culture has work to do on the whole equality thing, but we will get there eventually. Progress is incremental and generational, as better adjusted folks move into power over time.

Give it a century or two...


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Thank you for your thoughts!  Would there be any exceptions where equality may be case by case i.e. Military-SPECIAL FORCES!


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Michelle_P

Quote from: Vanny on September 09, 2017, 11:31:04 PM
Thank you for your thoughts!  Would there be any exceptions where equality may be case by case i.e. Military-SPECIAL FORCES!

Various jobs that require specific physical or mental skills to accomplish the tasks involved can decide hiring of individuals based on their ability to perform those tasks.  Special Forces are no different.

https://sofrep.com/49355/armys-new-gender-neutral-rules-special-forces/

Gender-neutral rules are already in place for persons wishing to try out for Army Special Forces.

I'd also note that we have had transgender persons serving in special forces roles, although not yet out, and not transitioned.  See Kristin Beck as a great example.

The actual cost/benefit analysis of permitting transgender persons in the military is detailed in a report from RAND.  It is a 112 page PDF document, but worth reviewing if one wants actual facts.

Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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Vanny

BRILLIANT, I WILL TAKE A GLANCE through it.   I am totally not convinced the military should be grounds for PC, POLITICS, GENDER GYMNASTICS.   

BUT I HAVE AN open mind and will glance at. 

THANKS for posting this.    Give me a bit


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Michelle_P

Regarding military service; something even folks in our community might not be aware of is that transgender folks serve at about five times the rate as the general population. Transgender folks also display a number of traits of great benefit in the military that are not all that common in the general population, including strong perseverance in the face of adversity, and a tendency toward self-sacrifice.

Military leadership values these unique sets of traits highly. My own service record is rather distinctive.

Please note that I have been transgender from the moment the doctor assigned me the wrong sex when I was born. Roughly 9 out of 10 transgender persons in the military are not out, and look like any other soldier in ranks. I guarantee that we could not be spotted. We are very adept at blending in, a survival trait.

The idea that we should somehow be discriminated against in military service is silly on the face of it, as we can obviously do the job, just as I did, as Kristin Beck did, as do many others in our "Roll Call" thread did and continue to do.



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Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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RobynD

I am a feminist and for 100% equality and the elimination privilege as well. It means that everyone has equal right and there is no oppression. People appreciate our diversity and differences without feeling threatened, superior etc. That is the ideal i will fight for the rest of my life.

If someone can physically and/or emotionally perform the work, then they should get the job. There are no exceptions including special forces. If they can pass the tests, their gender is irrelevant.


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Corax

Simple: Equality of opportunity and equality before the law!
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Roll

I consider equality a baseline for human rights. In that we all should be granted basic rights simply for being self-aware individuals. I believe it in turn goes hand in hand with consideration of merit, in that while I do not believe equality should trump merit (ie: quotas), it should allow for merit to be held as a standard independent of all else.  There should be no limits on gender, or gender identity, sexuality, religion, and so forth placed on serving in a particular role, but rather the only deciding factor should be the ability to serve in that role in the desired physical, mental, and emotional capacity. And while this does mean that there will be an imbalance in representation in certain roles in society, that imbalance should never be indicative of a restriction should someone meet the needs of that role while not being a member of the overly represented demographic. To put that into an example, the military issue spoken of repeatedly in this thread. While it may be more difficult for a woman to pass the requirements for special forces service, any woman who can pass the training should be held equal to any man who does. However, I also would allow for a notable caveat in that any body representing the whole of society should seek to diversify to meet the disparate needs of society (though perhaps not expressly be required to do so, and thus should instead be incumbent upon people to seek of their own will or it is inherently meaningless tokenism).

Essentially, I follow the Genghis Khan model minus the mass murder and horses.
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SeptagonScars

I'm for equality too, but I don't think it should be enforced outside of the law (meaning in other aspects than the law). I don't think people's lives should be too controlled, and I think it's very difficult to know just where to draw that line. When it comes to the law though, I think it should definitely be equal for all, and sensitive to individual differences. I do believe in equality of opportunity.
I don't know enough about the military to know where I stand on that topic. I tried forming an opinion on it a while ago but I just kept changing my mind back and forth the more I learned until I was all confused about it, so maybe it's best for me to not have an opinion on that, for now at least. It seems very complicated.
Mar. 2009 - came out as ftm
Nov. 2009 - changed my name to John
Mar. 2010 - diagnosed with GID
Aug. 2010 - started T, then stopped after 1 year
Aug. 2013 - started T again, kept taking it since
Mar. 2014 - top surgery
Dec. 2014 - legal gender marker changed to male
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Deborah

Having served for 20 years in the Army in the Infantry, having commanded a company of paratroopers, and being Ranger qualified I can say there is nothing in any of those jobs that is unique to only men.  It does however require extreme physical toughness, above average strength and endurance, aggressiveness, and particularly a lot of mental fortitude with the ability to patiently endure extreme discomfort for long time periods.

On average, males will have an easier time qualifying because of the physical requirements.  Females will have a harder time.   Many of both males and females lack the mental fortitude. 

But if somebody can meet and exceed the physical requirements and displays the requisite aggressiveness and mental fortitude they will earn the respect of the rest of the group.

That is the current military policy too.  If you can meet the job requirements then you can serve in that position without exception.


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Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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MistressStevie

Equality to me should be mostly focused on skills, abilities, and work product. 

Backgrounds, previous opportunity, biology, and history will never be equal. 

Work with the elements most driven by any given individuals actions.
What we can accomplish from here going forward is my focus. 
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