So I answered my front door this morning and standing there are 2 little abuelas, dressed in their Sunday best and they looked SO CUTE.  They didn't speak English but I speak a little Spanish and they asked me if I knew of any Spanish speakers around. So I  thought I would be helpful.  Just women cooperating and helping each other kind of deal. So I pointed out the houses around me where Spanish speaking families live.   Then they asked me if I had heard the "Good News."  I thought, 'uh oh.'  So in an effort to get rid of them I said, "Yo soy católico." Then one went off on a long monologue about how that don't matter and I can still be saved, yadda, yadda, yadda.  Pretty standard fare.  Meanwhile the other sweet, old lady was looking thru her English language version of her little tract she was carrying and when she found her page she flashed it at me with a sweet smile:

"WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY."

I kind of went deer in the headlights for a minute and couldn't make out a word they were saying after that.
Finally I just said sweetly, "No quiero placticar con ustedes nada mas. No me gusto oir tu odio."(I don't want to chat with you ladies any more.  I don't like hearing your hate.). 
Grinning like two Cheshire cats they said, "Gracias!" and walked away.

I swear. I am getting SO SICK AND TIRED of churchy types.

Guess I'll just file it all under no good deed goes unpunished.

My god. Not all, but many of the religious types are so. How dare they impose what they think is right or wrong upon you, many times in moral relativisms. They could be truly helping people, yet, they worry of insignificances. I developed a technic: When they show at my door, I let them speak a bit, then I enter a religious mode and say I understood all they were talking about, and even explain why. And then I use some religious metaphors too, and start talking religiously. Their brains cannot deal with someone actually being aware of what they want to show, yet not being fully how they expected such a person be. I like to call it "switching to religious idiom".

Here in Brazil, there is even an evangelic religious figure which claim to have a "gay cure", some deluded ones also claim they were "cured from it". On the other side, some who claim to "had been cured" were sexually rampant, not a civilized LGBT as we have on this forum 🖤.

Regards,
Tsukiyoarts

I think they avoid my place now because every time they turn my housemate asks them if they have a moment to hear the good word of Charles Darwin.

  You can call me rude if you like and yes in this case it fits but I got so tired of sales people or people out to save my soul that I made a good sized sign on my front door when I lived in California. It said simply, "No Sales. No Gods. Get Lost. When someone that fit into those two categories knock on my door I would answer it and ask if they had read my sign. If they said no which they invariably did I told them to read it and slammed the door on them.
  My wife had let some well known wandering religious type in and had begun listening to their nonsense and I found out and told her I would bodily remove any of them I heard pushing their view in my home. FYI they played a predominate part in my wife ousting me from my own home later. Would that there was a bounty on that particular group. I'd be rich. Yes, I truly do not like them. I am not that way towards other groups.

Hugs,
   Laurie

Sorry you experienced this.   The best response I've seen for any religious argument like this is God made me trans.  Still though this behavior is unacceptable.  I have friends BTW that are like this.  The more I transition, the more I know they won't be friends much longer.  I am not out to them, but they won't ever be accepting.  I won't change for them.  There are religious people that are accepting, but not many, definitely not enough.

Bari Jo

I have no tolerance for door to door bible thumpers. I will tell them politely I'm not interested.  If they keep on I tell them my family belongs to the church of Satan and shut the door. They leave pretty fast. Lol. And no, we are not satanists.  Lol

The door to door religious people are so annoying. But I have to point out, you misgendered yourself in Spanish, obviously with no intention, so that might have helped the clockage. You said "yo soy católico" instead of "yo soy católica", remember all adjectives in Spanish are gendered and the female version ends with an "A"

Quote from: Janes Groove on September 15, 2017, 12:39:19 PM


Guess I'll just file it all under no good deed goes unpunished.

I'm in love with the wicked reference. (although technically the phrase was around before wicked but shhhhh)

Is it bad that I'm laughing that these ladies actually had their 'message' so handy? Makes me wonder if they were actually missionaries for one of the churches.  Though its possible that they just were for lack of better phrasing, 'Bible Belt Christians'.

Quote from: Viktor on September 15, 2017, 12:55:19 PM
I think they avoid my place now because every time they turn my housemate asks them if they have a moment to hear the good word of Charles Darwin.

Oh my gosh... I want your housemate!!!!!!!!! That's too funny!


In all seriousness. Having grown up Mormon, I grew up with brothers who went on proselyting (sp?) missions.  I'm no longer practicing, but dang it was interesting how mad my parents would get when Jehovah's witnesses came to our door, but they'd openly welcome Mormon missionaries, feed them, etc.  Kind of hypocritical if you ask me. But I guess we're raised to think our missionaries are better than everyone else's, not as pushy.
Now that I'm not so 'active' in our church, I do feel uncomfortable when the missionaries stop by, and when ward leaders stop by, but since my husband is still highly Mormon (despite not being able to go to church right now do to circumstances beyond our control) I tolerate it.  And dang they can be just as pushy as others. 'Oh, really? When can we stop by again?'
At least they've never pushed 'You're a sinner' on me ... yet.

I am a born again Christian and my church I spent a lot of time is The United Methodist church. They are one of the few that accept our community. At least the ones I have gone to and worked for. I like their saying of open hearts, open minds and open doors. So I just tell them I am born again. And I have a church. And if it ever came to it, I have tons of material we could debate on why god accepts all of us the same. There is no way possible anybody could show you direct proof to the contrary. Anything they say is interpretation. Meeting me you would never know if I am or how religious I am. If asked I say. But religion is not something you are supposed to push on anyone. One of my pet peeves. And it pisses me off.


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I think its all down to St Paul.  As far as I know, there isn't much in the bible that definitely condemns ->-bleeped-<- or homosexuality.  I think that it is just St Paul who is unequivocal. In 1 Corinthians 6:9 of the King James Bible, he says "...nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind."

However, he also said "Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling..." (Ephesians 6:5 New American Standard Bible)

and

"But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet" (1 Timothy 2:12 New American Standard Bible).

Quotations from St Paul have been used to justify slavery and the oppression of women, as well as the oppression of trans and gay people.

I don't intend any offence to Christians (I regard myself as one) but as Saul of Tarsus, St Paul set out to destroy Christianity.  I sometimes think that he succeeded.

I would tell them I'm from another planet and I'm not interested as I won't be here long.


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I have born again Christians on one side, and Jehova's witnesses across the street and in three other houses nearby.  Ours is the dark end of the street on Halloween and Christmas, except for my house, which gets lit up enough to spin the electric meter like a top.

No one has said anything to me directly.  But last year the twenty something daughters across the street laughed at me one time when I dragged the garbage cans out wearing a men's T shirt over women's skinny jeans.

Since then my hair has grown out and the hormones have done a number on my body.  The last few times I've been on the driveway and they've seen me, even in full female dress, no one is laughing any more.

Quote from: MaryT on September 15, 2017, 03:12:34 PM
I think its all down to St Paul.  As far as I know, there isn't much in the bible that definitely condemns ->-bleeped-<- or homosexuality.  I think that it is just St Paul who is unequivocal. In 1 Corinthians 6:9 of the King James Bible, he says "...nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind."

However, he also said "Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling..." (Ephesians 6:5 New American Standard Bible)

and

"But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet" (1 Timothy 2:12 New American Standard Bible).

Quotations from St Paul have been used to justify slavery and the oppression of women, as well as the oppression of trans and gay people.

I don't intend any offence to Christians (I regard myself as one) but as Saul of Tarsus, St Paul set out to destroy Christianity.  I sometimes think that he succeeded.

I came from a similar sect that loudly preached these things. I lived by these hardline Baptist rules for years. It's a reality that many people in my old church were/are taught the idea of eternal punishment in a burning Hell. Many of them are secretly terrified of ending up in such a horrible place and will do ANYTHING to avoid such a horror. This includes doing whatever the preacher instructs about "sharing Jesus" with others. I could write a book, but basically we could die at any moment and what we have done in this life will be used to determine our eternal reward. I had to leave that type of church because of the rampant hypocrisy and fraudulent money games. But I can bet these ladies were trying to build "brownie points" for their Heavenly rewards. Of course, I remember a very few who were honest and truly had love in their hearts, but they were few and far between. Many members though really did attack others if they did not live up to their standards of biblical life requirements. I was terrified for years and actually had nightmares after listening to fiery evangelists yell about all the "hellfire and brimstone" that awaited most of us. So it was my "job" to tell others of Christ in order to avoid this eternal judgment. I still believe in Christ, but we humans have done so much to destroy the true concept of love that He taught.

Anyway, I still have nightmares sometimes....

Quote from: MaryT on September 15, 2017, 03:12:34 PM
I think its all down to St Paul.  As far as I know, there isn't much in the bible that definitely condemns ->-bleeped-<- or homosexuality.  I think that it is just St Paul who is unequivocal. In 1 Corinthians 6:9 of the King James Bible, he says "...nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind."

However, he also said "Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling..." (Ephesians 6:5 New American Standard Bible)

and

"But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet" (1 Timothy 2:12 New American Standard Bible).

Quotations from St Paul have been used to justify slavery and the oppression of women, as well as the oppression of trans and gay people.

I don't intend any offence to Christians (I regard myself as one) but as Saul of Tarsus, St Paul set out to destroy Christianity.  I sometimes think that he succeeded.

Another example is the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (sp?) that might contribute to this argument.  I'm not a huge bible scholar, but if I remember correctly, the bible never directly states in most translations (if not all) what exactly the sins were that caused the utter destruction.  Its my opinion that homosexuality is considered the most grievous sin that caused it because of the name 'Sodom' and sodomy is closely linked to homosexuality, especially in Christian minds.

Quote from: Gertrude on September 15, 2017, 04:18:52 PM
I would tell them I'm from another planet and I'm not interested as I won't be here long.


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I LOVE that response. Might I adapt it into my daily life? *chuckles*

Quote from: CarlyMcx on September 15, 2017, 05:36:48 PM
I have born again Christians on one side, and Jehova's witnesses across the street and in three other houses nearby.  Ours is the dark end of the street on Halloween and Christmas, except for my house, which gets lit up enough to spin the electric meter like a top.

No one has said anything to me directly.  But last year the twenty something daughters across the street laughed at me one time when I dragged the garbage cans out wearing a men's T shirt over women's skinny jeans.

Since then my hair has grown out and the hormones have done a number on my body.  The last few times I've been on the driveway and they've seen me, even in full female dress, no one is laughing any more.

See this is what I think really is truly emblematic of Christianity. Or really any religion for that matter.  Most religions teach to be kind and non-judgemental. But its people who take it to mean something else.  (IE those twenty something year olds... but sounds like even they have learned something in the past year)

Life isn't about your religion, the color of your skin, the gender you identify as, what body parts you were born as, what disabilities you have...
Life is about what you make of it. The kind of person you strive to be. How you live. As long as you are trying your best  to live a genuine, and good life, I think you'll make it to those pearly gates (assuming you believe in that) and welcomed in.  Because no one is perfect. We all make mistakes.
That's probably what I'd like to have said to those ladies if I had been in your shoes, but I'm not any good at confrontation hahaha.

Quote from: Rowena_Ellenweorc on September 15, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
Another example is the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (sp?) that might contribute to this argument.  I'm not a huge bible scholar, but if I remember correctly, the bible never directly states in most translations (if not all) what exactly the sins were that caused the utter destruction.  Its my opinion that homosexuality is considered the most grievous sin that caused it because of the name 'Sodom' and sodomy is closely linked to homosexuality, especially in Christian minds.

That's because the English word Sodomy is derived from the city name Sodom.  It is not a mere coincidence.

I tell them thanks, but I've already saved myself.

Bible thumpers get me riled up. Funny how when you reference correct translations from the original Aramaic and Greek they tend to shut up.

Then there's the cities of Sodom and Gramorra. Built in the salt flats of the Dead Sea. Destroyed by an earthquake. Yeh like earthquakes were such rare events. The salt has been mined by pooling and evaporating the water for eons now. This created salt caverns around the sea. These cave in during earthquakes. So two cities built upon the salt trade who were rich trading places full of Gentiles. It's no wonder the Isrealites priests said they were evil. Also in the original text the cities were guilty of gluttony, pride, greed ect. Never a word in that passage about homosexuality. The one link to that is the story of Lot. It says two travelers sought refuge from him from some of the towns people. The townspeople supposedly took these travelers and raped them aside from other crimes to them. Lot then was spared from Gods destruction of the cities when it happened. So basically one guys story turns into "Sodomy".

The actual rules of Liviticus don't exactly spell out homosexuality either. And well I usually have pointed out how if you were not born Jew you are already in violation of Liviticus for being a "gentile" which was the priests derogatory name for non Jews. I also suggest that if they want a better understanding of the Torah they need to ask a Rabbi not an evangelical teacher. Oohh Southern Baptists hate that especially if they are a minister!

Old Testament writings were condemning the use of sex in other nearby religion's ceremonies. There was one smaller culture that the men made offering of their seed by giving it to male priests of their gods in their religious practice. So homosexuality is linked to HOW they gave to their gods. Other cultures like Greek city states like Philistine had a practice where one day a year, all girls of a certain age went to the temple. Then all unmarried men could have sex with any of the girls or all they could. The girls would be married off soon after making the father of the first born unknown for certain. Greek culture viewed sex very openly as did many other surrounding the Isrealites. All of their laws were based on keeping their people "clean" from the Gentiles around them.

Another such rule from Liviticus made it illegal to sit and eat at the same table with anyone that was not Isrealite

I can't remember which, but there is only one of the appossals who was supposed to have referenced old Jewish law and homosexuality in his message to one of the fledgling churches. But that was his words as recorded some 70 years later, not Jesus' words.

When I feel up to the challenge, going at these people with scripture blows their minds. They simply quit arguing.

Good night,

I guess if hell exists and I was there; I would kindly ask satan to put some carrot, onions and potato there at my boiling cauldron; and to take care of the exact water temperature, as I would want my perfumed beauty bath to be no less than top notch quality.

Humorously regards,
Tsukiyoarts

QuoteI tell them thanks, but I've already saved myself.

Majestic. That was a very well put choice of words. I actually might steal it and start using that myself if it is not copyrighted to you .

Quote from: MaryT on September 15, 2017, 03:12:34 PM
I think its all down to St Paul.  As far as I know, there isn't much in the bible that definitely condemns ->-bleeped-<- or homosexuality.  I think that it is just St Paul who is unequivocal. In 1 Corinthians 6:9 of the King James Bible, he says "...nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind."

However, he also said "Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling..." (Ephesians 6:5 New American Standard Bible)

and

"But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet" (1 Timothy 2:12 New American Standard Bible).

Quotations from St Paul have been used to justify slavery and the oppression of women, as well as the oppression of trans and gay people.

I don't intend any offence to Christians (I regard myself as one) but as Saul of Tarsus, St Paul set out to destroy Christianity.  I sometimes think that he succeeded.

It should be called Paulianity.


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Thank you all for your support. It really is wonderful to have this forum as an outlet to vent.

Quote from: Laurie on September 15, 2017, 01:15:49 PM
I made a good sized sign on my front door when I lived in California. It said simply, "No Sales. No Gods. Get Lost.

I'm making one.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on September 15, 2017, 02:00:44 PM
But I have to point out, you misgendered yourself in Spanish

My GOD. You're right.  I didn't see it until you pointed it out. It's so automatic. Sweet Jesus I have to re-learn Spanish too?  Transition is hard!!!