LGBT student president shot dead by campus police

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/09/18/lgbt-student-president-shot-dead-by-campus-police/

Pink News/By Josh Jackman  09/18/2017

That is a sad story but from the information available the student was looking for a way to die.  I can't see any fault with the police on this one.

Quote from: Deborah on September 18, 2017, 08:25:29 AM
That is a sad story but from the information available the student was looking for a way to die.  I can't see any fault with the police on this one.

Its not a trans issue, but I feel the police in the USA are far to ready to kill people. Its not that way in many other countries.

I agree with Deborah about the police (at least given the information we have thus far) did not act incorrectly in this situation. The sad truth is that even if someone is clearly in an irrational state (Scout was shouting "shoot me"), there are standards that police officers must follow for their own safety and the safety of others. That was seemingly followed here, as the police spent a long time trying to talk them down before being forced to act when charged with a knife. (Even then, it looks as though they waited longer to fire than is typical.) If they did not follow the guidelines and one of them or another civilian was injured, the story would in turn be questioning why they didn't follow procedure. There is no winning scenario here essentially.

What has really gotten to me however is the comments about Scout personally I've seen throughout the day while reading articles. This is the first such incident I've been conscious of since coming out to myself, and it is hard to just ignore the hatred like I used to. Even if the gender identity (or sexuality) issues are completely beside the point in this case, people still can't help but make them front and center. Not understanding non-binary identification and the accompanying "innocent" misgendering... I get it, it's can be a hard concept for most people to wrap their heads around. But so many people do it so purposefully as a means of, only somewhat metaphorically, spitting on Scout's grave it blows my mind--not to mention terrifies me. Even if this is just a vocal minority trading on internet anonymity, I don't understand how people can be so far gone they take joy in the tragic death of someone who suffered from mental health issues (not being trans of course, but supposedly Scout had a number of actual conditions).

I'm also angry with myself because while I commented in general about the topic using my name and e-mail address, when someone was talking about "one of them" (as negatively as possible), I could only bring myself to post anonymously "well, I'm "one of them" and..." in defense.

Quote from: Roll on September 18, 2017, 12:19:55 PM
I agree with Deborah about the police (at least given the information we have thus far) did not act incorrectly in this situation. The sad truth is that even if someone is clearly in an irrational state (Scout was shouting "shoot me"), there are standards that police officers must follow for their own safety and the safety of others. That was seemingly followed here, as the police spent a long time trying to talk them down before being forced to act when charged with a knife. (Even then, it looks as though they waited longer to fire than is typical.) If they did not follow the guidelines and one of them or another civilian was injured, the story would in turn be questioning why they didn't follow procedure. There is no winning scenario here essentially.

What has really gotten to me however is the comments about Scout personally I've seen throughout the day while reading articles. This is the first such incident I've been conscious of since coming out to myself, and it is hard to just ignore the hatred like I used to. Even if the gender identity (or sexuality) issues are completely beside the point in this case, people still can't help but make them front and center. Not understanding non-binary identification and the accompanying "innocent" misgendering... I get it, it's can be a hard concept for most people to wrap their heads around. But so many people do it so purposefully as a means of, only somewhat metaphorically, spitting on Scout's grave it blows my mind--not to mention terrifies me. Even if this is just a vocal minority trading on internet anonymity, I don't understand how people can be so far gone they take joy in the tragic death of someone who suffered from mental health issues (not being trans of course, but supposedly Scout had a number of actual conditions).

I'm also angry with myself because while I commented in general about the topic using my name and e-mail address, when someone was talking about "one of them" (as negatively as possible), I could only bring myself to post anonymously "well, I'm "one of them" and..." in defense.

Please do not feed the trolls.

Oh, I definitely wouldn't respond directly to one of the trolls, there is nothing logical to even respond to. My post was actually in response to someone defending Scout, but doing so by calling for the death of the cops. It bothered me that the person (who was not trolling) would readily be used as fuel for the anti-trans crowd (not just the trolls), and more or less just said that isn't a helpful position.

it is interesting but "suicide by cop" is it seems often treated differently based on factors including race etc. I have no idea why these officers did not have a stun gun and use it on her. There was no reason to kill her. She should have been subdued and taken into protective custody. We are way too quick as a society to shoot people.

A lady in our town tried this not to long ago with an air-soft pistol disguised as a gun. Both officers could have taken her life but instead she was tackled and i'm sure they thought it was a real gun.

Correct if wrong but it wasn't a LGBT issue causing Scout to be upset . . .

Apparently she discovered had AIDS??

Georgia Tech student killed

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/us/georgia-tech-student-killed/index.html

CNN/By Emanuella Grinberg     09/18/2017

Quote from: RobynD on September 18, 2017, 02:03:31 PM
it is interesting but "suicide by cop" is it seems often treated differently based on factors including race etc. I have no idea why these officers did not have a stun gun and use it on her. There was no reason to kill her. She should have been subdued and taken into protective custody. We are way too quick as a society to shoot people.

Robyn, the Georgia Tech Campus Police were not issued tasers.  I would think all campus police everywhere would be issued tasers but apparently not.

Also Scout identified as non binary and used they/them.

I never understand why they don't shoot for the legs I know its more challenging of a target , but it would save a life.

Quote from: stephaniec on September 18, 2017, 09:00:22 PM
I never understand why they don't shoot for the legs I know its more challenging of a target , but it would save a life.

You can bleed out just as quickly by nicking the Femoral Artery and a miss would put the police in great danger. The rule is don't shoot unless there is no other option then aim for the center of the biggest area.

I was thinking about attending the vigil at Tech tonight but I'm glad I didn't since it turned violent.  Two campus police were injured and a police vehicle was burned.

Quote from: Dena on September 18, 2017, 09:22:49 PM
You can bleed out just as quickly by nicking the Femoral Artery and a miss would put the police in great danger. The rule is don't shoot unless there is no other option then aim for the center of the biggest area.

Plus, most police officers are not experienced marksmen under pressure. (Real world experience under stress being the key distinction here, as of course they are required to have high levels of training.) This may seem to be a bad thing, but it's simply a reality of the fact that the overwhelming majority of officers never have to draw, much less fire, their weapon in the line of duty, which is a very, very good thing. If daily existence in the the U.S. were such that it lent to cultivating a military level of combat experience by every police officer, including campus police, this would be a radically different Man In the High Castle-ish world.

I do wonder about the taser issue though. Is it a budget thing, perhaps? I haven't the slightest what the cost per taser is compared to sidearms.

Quote from: Roll on September 18, 2017, 10:11:20 PMI do wonder about the taser issue though. Is it a budget thing, perhaps? I haven't the slightest what the cost per taser is compared to sidearms.

There will be costs to a taser v. firearm comparison far beyond just the purchase.  There will be training galore under all kinds of circumstances.  There are already cases were taser trained officers grabbed either their taser or their firearm where they intended to grab the other.  The taser has a bit of myth surrounding it for self defense as it does not work at distance similar to even poor handgun rounds and there are reports of poor efficacy in situations from intoxication to heavy clothing. 

I am all for limiting the number of deaths by police officers and would love to see police agencies come up with procedures that remove them from being the actor in the various suicide by cop situations.  This may require some pretty hefty training and other costs. 

I have shot a targets in stressful situations.  The idea that you aim for the center of mass makes a lot more sense when you watch your groups spread significantly.  The Lone Ranger may have been unique in his ability to fire in toxic situations and only hit the bad guys gun. 

It is sad that Scout was killed.  To prevent these deaths in the future, looking at what drives people to that level of despair may be most effective.  Calling 911 on yourself and reporting you may have a gun while waving a knife about indicate a level of despair far outside the encounter with the police officers at hand here. 

Quote from: Kiera on September 18, 2017, 06:30:03 PM
Correct if wrong but it wasn't a LGBT issue causing Scout to be upset . . .

Apparently she discovered had AIDS?? 

Is this a claim or a question?  I did not find any articles supporting this as a claim in fifteen minutes of searching.   

Do you have a source?

Quote from: MistressStevie on September 19, 2017, 07:57:17 PM
Do you have a source?

Original comments on her facebook page. They've changed from yesterday - comments there today are positively HATEFUL.

QuoteAIDS is a terrible disease. It takes too many away from this world.

Atlanta radio covered protest rally yesterday and one of the participats, mostly fellow students, bemoaned the 'lack of available heathcare" and 'condoms(?)'. Obviously she had been sick for quite a while but surely her family doesn't want to advertise that fact.

From Lilburn on a 'full ride' scholarship Georgia Tech is premiere in the South she otherwise had everything going for her!!! Atlanta has always been one of the most trans supportive cities in the U.S. but it's also been very conservative,  low key.