Hello everyone, it's been quite some time since I even visited here, but I've had a harsh turn of events. Last year, I was doing well, and by last summer I had set up an appointment for October to have my first visit to the Mazzoni center in Philadelphia.
Financial problems caused me to reschedule and then ultimately cancel that appointment. This February, with my father in laws help, I joined a union in order to make better money, ultimately delaying my transition even more. At that time, I promised my wife I wouldn't start anything until her father retired in five years, which is also when my apprenticeship would be over.
A couple of weeks ago, she found out her parents don't have enough to retire, and her dad will be staying in for 10 years instead of 5. As you can imagine, this hit pretty hard. We just discussed this again yesterday, and while I didn't express my interest in starting 5 years from now, the topic came up and my wife warned me not to do anything to ruin his reputation, as he is known very well.
Hence, she still wants me to wait until he retires. Furthermore, she said I have to think of how our kids will feel after that, when they will be 14 and 11. The whole thing sounds like a never ending list of reasons for me never to transition. I'd be 40 by the time I could even consider getting started, and I've already been waiting 4 years.
On top of that, I ran the idea of getting my ears pierced so I can use some earrings when I go out as Chelsea, which she was not closed off to, but extremely resistant to.
I did not leave her when I first came out. I told her if she stayed, I would wait for us to have a second child. I do not dress in front of the kids. I took the union job for more money, despite the extra travel I do and delaying everything.
Guys, I almost committed suicide 4 years ago because we were at a point where she didn't want me transitioning at all. This morning, the sad truth that she doesn't love me as much as she says dawned on me. She is more concerned for her father's reputation than my mental health. I haven't felt like harming myself for 4 tears until this morning. I'll admit I'm too much of a coward to actually commit suicide, and I know I've got so much to live for, but I've dropped below the point of being strong enough to live a normal life as I've been. Obviously, I want to see a therapist, not to transition but to at least get therapy. I'm at a loss...

It sounds like your wife is using everything she can to stop you from transitioning. If you tried suicide you obviously need to transition. As painful as it might be you need to leave your wife and do what you need to do. If you stay with her you wont ever be able to transition. If she's spazzing over piercing your ears do you really think she's ever going to be ok with you doing hrt? You have to think about your own happiness too.

There was a topic a few weeks ago about making lists of steps and then working threw them with your partner.

I tend to agree with Julia on this but if you do want to try and make it work and also see what is and isn't ok with your wife a transition list might help.

I would link the original topic it in if I was on my laptop.

Things like:
Pieced Ears
Growing hair out
Under dressing
Shaving
Laser hair removal
Ect

You can put whatever on there really and just work through it together and see which ones you can both agree to. Not all steps are immediately obvious, things like laser hair removal is something most MTF lady's need and it can be done entirely pre transition without anyone being the wiser.

I hope that helps

-Mara


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Well, I didn't attempt, but I very seriously considered it. I'm not sure she'd doing "everything she can" to prevent me, but I'm very severely hurt by her lack of concern for my feelings as compared to her father's. I'm her "#1", but if that's the case, shouldn't my feelings be put first?
I also pointed out that no one needs to know he knew about this prior to getting me in the union, but I have to agree with her that things have a way of getting out, even if I don't say anything.
My insurance doesn't kick in for another few weeks or months, and I can't afford a therapist right now, but I definitely need something.
My biggest problem is I really have no one close to I can talk to, because all of my close friends are also close with her. I don't want anyone choosing sides, even though I know her parents would side with her in a heartbeat.

It does seem like she's doing what she can to stop you from going further. Which I guess I can understand since this is also hard for her but at the end you are one who has to live with the dysphoria and the suicide thoughts. You have to try and find a balance between what the both of you want, and waiting 10 years seems like way too much if you are ready now.

There's people here on low dose HRT who haven't transitioned socially. Have you thought about that? Might work for a while.


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It seems like you are her #1 only as long as you remain what she wants you to be. You had it right when you said she doesn't care about your feelings. You are obviously suffering. Like Tammy said, there are things you can start now to help the process along. Hair removal seems like a huge ordeal that takes a while to finish so you could get started on laser or electrolysis. That is if your wife doesn't have a melt down over it.

Yeah... I was so close to my appointment when things fell apart, and I just keep watching things get further away. She said laser is fine once we can afford it, but I don't understand the earring problem. There's another apprentice who has his ears pierced, but he's younger.
The topic of divorce has come up more frequently in our relationship, but she always wants to act like things are fine. She says it's me and that I don't seem happy, and that I don't seem to enjoy time with the family. I do, I'm just not 100% happy because of my dysphoria.

Your family's reaction to your transition seems selfish to me.  Mine had a similar reaction and blamed me for being selfish.  Their primary concern was how my transition would make THEM look and in your case how it will make your father-in-law look.  When I came out to my mom her reaction to me was "what am I going to tell my friends".  I don't get that.  If they are truly your friends then what I do shouldn't matter to them.  My co-worker has mentioned to me on several occasions that these friends probably know or have someone close to them in the LGBT community you never know what skeletons people hide in their closets.

Sorry, but the situation with your wife sounds difficult at best.  I don't have any advice for that since my decision was to get a divorce.  She, like my mom, is worried about what people will think of her because of my transition.  My thought is why should she care we are divorced so what I do shouldn't reflect on her.  Oh well.

Don't worry about the kids.  Mine were 10 and 8 and have accepted me.  Your still their parent and they will love you no matter what.

tl;dr You won't be happy if you continue to make transition choices based on protecting other people's reputations.  You're postponing your happiness for a person who might or might not be in your life in the future and honestly probably doesn't give a ->-bleeped-<- about your mental well being. 

Best wishes,
Jillian

Quote from: JillianC on September 25, 2017, 08:19:30 AM
Your family's reaction to your transition seems selfish to me.  Mine had a similar reaction and blamed me for being selfish.  Their primary concern was how my transition would make THEM look and in your case how it will make your father-in-law look.  When I came out to my mom her reaction to me was "what am I going to tell my friends".  I don't get that.  If they are truly your friends then what I do shouldn't matter to them.  My co-worker has mentioned to me on several occasions that these friends probably know or have someone close to them in the LGBT community you never know what skeletons people hide in their closets.

Sorry, but the situation with your wife sounds difficult at best.  I don't have any advice for that since my decision was to get a divorce.  She, like my mom, is worried about what people will think of her because of my transition.  My thought is why should she care we are divorced so what I do shouldn't reflect on her.  Oh well.

Don't worry about the kids.  Mine were 10 and 8 and have accepted me.  Your still their parent and they will love you no matter what.

tl;dr You won't be happy if you continue to make transition choices based on protecting other people's reputations.  You're postponing your happiness for a person who might or might not be in your life in the future and honestly probably doesn't give a ->-bleeped-<- about your mental well being. 

Best wishes,
Jillian

That seems like a common reaction among family. When I came out as trans my dad was hugging me and telling me it was ok and not to cry. My mom said she was the one who should be crying and what were her friends going to think. It's amazing to me that anyone can only be worried about how it will make them look. We have to endure medication, therapy, painful surgery, public scorn and we risk having someone kill us for trying to be who we are. But we are the selfish ones! That makes me so mad!

A very valid point. Actually, very few people have been resistant to my transition. Friends, my parents, my brother, even some members of her extended family. But her parents have been very resistant, even encouraging her to leave me when I came out.
I completely agree with you Julia, I know I shouldn't be sacrificing my happiness for others. The hardest part to consider is possible divorce. I know it sounds like a stereotype, but I never wanted to get divorced when I was younger. I guess I have nothing to worry about anymore. My biggest problem is that she "doesn't want to share the kids". Aka she wants full custody. That's why SHE won't leave.
I guess the inevitable is that I need to have a straight honest conversation. I feel like therapy should be first. And I feel even worse for my parents, because they are always there for their grandkids, and if we get divorced IDK what will happen. I just want to cry right now. This whole ordeal, just so my FIL gets to keep his reputation. And what would it matter anyway? If I do it after he retires, doesn't his reputation get ruined anyway?

I'm really sorry, it isn't all as bad as it sounds. Day to day, we're very happy with one another. We get along, we have shared interests, she allows me to dress around her. It doesn't even bother her when I haven't shaved my face and I'm in a skirt and have my bra on. We even considered letting me bottom this weekend (didn't want to TMI with details).
I don't want to have her seem like the ultimate evil. But there's only so much I can take.
I just don't know who to talk to about this. I suppose I could try our pastor, because he knows pretty much everything about us. Even about me. It's just that once I go to talk to someone, poop is sure to hit the fan quick.
The timing isn't great either. My mom is going for her second half of treatment for breast cancer, finishing in December. If something goes sour with us, I'm not sure how it will affect her. She's missed all of us alot because she wasn't allowed to be around the boys as often.

I can understand you not wanting to divorce and I'm sure you love your wife and Don't want to lose her. But there are 2 ways you could lose her. 1. Divorce her and try to stay on friendly terms with her. Or, 2. Wake up when your a 50 year old man with your dysphoria raging and realize you didn't become who you are because of her and start to hate the sight of her. It's not unreasonable to think that can happen. My uncle was the most resistant to me transitioning out of all my family. He tried everything he could think of to try and talk my dad out of letting me transition. I never liked him very much but after he kept trying to block my transition I totally can't stand him and don't care if I ever see him again.

I also really don't understand the whole idea of ruining your FIL's reputation.  How does your being trans affect his reputation? Was he supposed to make sure you weren't trans before you married his daughter? He didn't marry you, she did. The reputation thing is something else I never understood. That was something my mom tried to use with my dad. She told him to think about his reputation. He's a police officer. He told her that was stupid and that he wasn't transitioning, I was. As far as I know my being trans had no effect on his reputation. His friends are all accepting of me and have always been nice to me. He had one friend who had a problem with me but he cut that one loose.

And your right, if there was going to be any effect on your FIL's reputation it will happen after he retires as much as it would happen now. I'm sorry but the whole reputation thing seems like more straws your wife is clutching to prevent your transition.

If I were in your heels, I'd not ask for permission. I'll inform her on my immediate plans as well as uncertainty of what my next plans would be _and_ the fact that you won't ask her permission for those next steps either if you choose to proceed.

If she's not ok with those plans of yours, she's free to seek other accommodations than living with you. It will be her choice and if it is, you cannot do anything about it anyway.

Now, don't blame her for putting her father or children before you. As long as you put somebody else's comfort in front of your needs, that person can let other people's priorities put first. To some women, husbands are only tools to provide comfortable life, and if they bring problems - then maybe they aren't worth to keep around. But it's your choice if you accept such attitude or not.

I suppose the problem stands that our union is very anti- LGBT. Not a week goes by without something negative being said. I tolerate it, but the trans people in the military topic didn't get any positive feedback at my job. I don't speak up for fear someone might suspect something, though that might just be paranoia.

Quote from: elkie-t on September 25, 2017, 09:22:30 AM
If I were in your heels, I'd not ask for permission. I'll inform her on my immediate plans as well as uncertainty of what my next plans would be _and_ the fact that you won't ask her permission for those next steps either if you choose to proceed.

If she's not ok with those plans of yours, she's free to seek other accommodations than living with you. It will be her choice and if it is, you cannot do anything about it anyway.

Now, don't blame her for putting her father or children before you. As long as you put somebody else's comfort in front of your needs, that person can let other people's priorities put first. To some women, husbands are only tools to provide comfortable life, and if they bring problems - then maybe they aren't worth to keep around. But it's your choice if you accept such attitude or not.

Sadly, it isn't that simple. I know some people have done it, but I don't want to lose her or my boys. I already told her if that's what I wanted, I would have done so already, and that's the truth. Also, there's money involved, which is always a problem. We owe her parents some money, and my parents a lot more.

Quote from: ChelseaAnn on September 25, 2017, 08:37:44 AM
I guess the inevitable is that I need to have a straight honest conversation.

I agree, you do need to talk about it.  It seems to me that this should be a major talking point:

Quote from: ChelseaAnn on September 25, 2017, 07:56:08 AMShe says it's me and that I don't seem happy, and that I don't seem to enjoy time with the family.

Tell her that she is right that you are unhappy.  And that the reason is because she won't let you transition.

The fear of divorce is real and reasonable.  But it is about balancing risks.  As long as the consequences of divorce seem worse than the consequences of not transitioning, nothing will change.  When continuing the dysphoria is worse than divorce, then you will be able to move.

Quote from: ChelseaAnn on September 25, 2017, 09:23:02 AM
I suppose the problem stands that our union is very anti- LGBT. Not a week goes by without something negative being said. I tolerate it, but the trans people in the military topic didn't get any positive feedback at my job. I don't speak up for fear someone might suspect something, though that might just be paranoia.

Some people say stuff from ignorance, because they don't personally know anyone. And I am not sure if union bosses can actually be anti-LGBT these days and not provide you same protections as other members? If that's the case, I'd think hard if I want to support that union with my money.

I'm really sorry you are dealing with this!  It is not a fun place to be in for sure!  I too am married.  And initially went through a lot of resistence to the whole thing simply because it was somewhat new to my wife, and the idea of her marrying the man of her dreams and then finding out he is actually a she, kind of caused a little bit of a rift between us.  However, she is actually my biggest supporter now, and takes me shopping and things, and is actually uncomfortable when I am wearing "boy" clothes now. 

  But yes.  I do know that has got to be a very hopeless and sad feeling to know what you need and want to do, but to be met with so much resistance.  No fun to deal with at all!  Your mental well being absolutely depends on your ability to live the real you and be happy.

I also found out that if I speak for transgender rights even in a very macho environment, adding that I'm a voting libertarian and 'mind your own business' kind of person (also gun-toting, and very fiscally conservative and generally go well with any conservative crowd), I only get respect from those guys for having my own opinion and guts to speak it up.


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Elkie , fortunately I work in new Jersey, so there are still protections in place to prevent me from being fired for it. That aside, I'm still planning on finishing out my apprenticeship before anything starts, so I can build my own reputation first.