Opinion question.
My wife constantly says that she doesn't know if she could live anymore if something happened to our boys. Me either.
Is it a low blow to tell her that is also how I feel about never getting to transition?
I have tried comparing it to her wanting to lose weight, but she says she could get by with her body if she had to.

I don't see that as a low blow, since it's the truth.

It's not a low blow. Maybe if you tell her that it will help her understand just how strongly you feel about transitioning.

I ain't remember if I mentioned earlier in this thread that my mom is going through the second stage of her breast cancer treatments, but those end in December. Would it be in bad taste to wait until those are over to talk to my wife about all of this? If things get sour, I don't want my mom to get upset. Also, I think I should speak to them about the situation first, just so they know what's going on.
Thoughts?

Chelsea, sorry to hear about the transphobia you're dealing with, both from wife and in your union. 5 years sounded OK especially as you were OK with it, 10 just sounds hard, especially if transition at work will expose you to more phobic reactions.

You certainly could undertake low dose or maybe even transition dose HRT. Of course a problem with transition dose could be that if it improves things as much for you as most of us then male-fail would become a conflict. I could have continued to pass as male forever -- in fact I still do get taken for male in spite of whatever I wear.

The other thing you could think of is once you've been accepted into your union, is that reasonably portable? All hourly work where I am is union and they're a pretty accepting bunch on average far as I can tell.

Hugs,

S

Sadie, I'm not sure I understand your last paragraph. What do you mean by portable?
Also, any opinions on timing of this talk I need to have with my wife, mostly concerning my mom's current treatments?

I mean if your union is a national (or even if it's not), can you step into membership in a different area of the country that would be more accepting?

As for timing, I'd think wait until after other big stuff has cleared, yes. I'd also say don't ever put what you need as a trade. You, your family can all be healthy without anyone needing to give up anything. Compromise, sure but exchanging your health for anything else doesn't ring true for me.

ChelseaAnn a lot of objections you mention (to transistioning) sound familar, went through myself.

Quick read quick observation -> your wife sounds very controlling. If you value your kids (I do, now have custody!) stop doing ANYTHING around her that she can one day USE AGAINST YOU!

My father was "Exec Vice-President" of the 'union job' I worked for . . Union and 'her father's reputation' isn't everything but exercise restraintt!!!

Unfortunately, my union is in control of new York, New Jersey, Maryland, and some parts of Virginia and Pennsylvania. Moving out of it would require major relocation.
Her dad already knows everything about me, her parents didn't/ don't deal with it well. Honestly, I don't "do" things around my wife she can use against me. I mean, I have a temper sometimes, but there isn't anything I'd say would be used against me in the future.
As for being careful around her dad, I am. I'm not really scared of him. He's got too much to lose by doing anything to me.

It seems to me that your wife loves being married to a husband; to a man.

But if you're not really a man but a woman inside, then that's kind of a problem, isn't it?

I think you already know what you need to do.

She's actually very supportive, and like I said earlier, she isn't bad. It's just this issue with her father that recently came up. We were fully ready for me to start my transition last October. Just had money problems and needed a really good paying job.
I think she's honestly scared of her dad. But I'm tired of having to consider other people's feelings. Not to put anything on her, but my mom got her cancer diagnosis and no one even questioned getting her treatment, so why do I have to suffer just so someone else is happy?

My opinion is that theonlypeople you should truly consider the impact of transition on is your partner and childre..with children top of the list.

You have done the right thing and negotiated a timeframe which has now changed.

If you are suicidal, transition. I wish you all the very best.

OK, so an update. I had planned on waiting to have this conversation in the new year, after my mom finished her treatments. However, my wife and I got into a rather heated argument and it came up. It went not so well, but turned out OK in the end.
A lot of things made me angry, as I compared the fact that my mother received treatment without question, but that apparently meant I was jealous.... I also asked my wife if she'd rather explain to our children why I was a girl or why I had killed myself, and she immediately took that as me threatening to kill myself so she would stay with me, which was completely not the case at all.
We finally manged to isolate the issue of her dad and how this all would affect him. She never gave me an answer as to why her Father's reputation was more important than my mental well being. However, I did tell her I could wait the five years as I originally stated. So we agreed upon that in 5 years, waiting for my father in law would not be a factor. Other factors, such as finances, would still be in play though. I don't imagine that being a problem, since I'll be making 45 an hour by that point.
Thanks for all the help everyone. I'm going to continue to push the earrings issue, and hopefully get that done by my birthday in March.

It seems to me your wife was "buying time" in hoping that using her dad to get you into the union will eventually lead to you realizing, as she hoped, that the whole trans thing was just a phase. Just as you, she would love to see her life stay as it is, you stay as you are. You two both in your home, with happy smiling kids. Big family gatherings. Life is good.  Not exactly what she can picture as the spouse of an MTF.

You need to ask yourself "Which Pain is Worse?" as does your wife.

My wife and I found ways to balance the conflicting needs and wants each of us have, as well the needs and wants of "The Us". She has seen how much personal growth I achieved by taking on the Trans-Beast for real. I am no longer that always angry, sometimes depressed, and more, person I was. I am far better of a person today then I was 8 years ago. She needed to compromise some too. TBH - HRT was not something she wanted for me, but she also saw that it would help me and us. Her "husband" having nicer boobs then her does not thrill her at all.

After a lot of our difficult, open and honest discussions, she knows how tenuous my life is and the difficult balancing act I have. So far the "Good" days far outnumber the "Bad" days for the GD. In a perfect I would go full-time in an instant. Today, it is a Want and not a Need. We both know if/when it is a Need, we'll have to sort out how to make it happen, and perhaps for us both.

There are no guarantees in life except death and taxes. Going full-time or even GCS, you still have the "Do-Over" option. Me? I like options, even if they can smoke my head

Quote from: ChelseaAnn on September 30, 2017, 06:19:29 AM
OK, so an update. I had planned on waiting to have this conversation in the new year, after my mom finished her treatments. However, my wife and I got into a rather heated argument and it came up. It went not so well, but turned out OK in the end.
A lot of things made me angry, as I compared the fact that my mother received treatment without question, but that apparently meant I was jealous.... I also asked my wife if she'd rather explain to our children why I was a girl or why I had killed myself, and she immediately took that as me threatening to kill myself so she would stay with me, which was completely not the case at all.
We finally manged to isolate the issue of her dad and how this all would affect him. She never gave me an answer as to why her Father's reputation was more important than my mental well being. However, I did tell her I could wait the five years as I originally stated. So we agreed upon that in 5 years, waiting for my father in law would not be a factor. Other factors, such as finances, would still be in play though. I don't imagine that being a problem, since I'll be making 45 an hour by that point.
Thanks for all the help everyone. I'm going to continue to push the earrings issue, and hopefully get that done by my birthday in March.

Chelsea,
I don't want to be negative here but from everything you said  it sounds like if you wait another 5 years, there will be another reason you have to wait 5 more. I don't have a great solution for you as I know you fear losing your kids. I do think it sounds like you are doing all of the compromising. I would hate for you to get 5 or 10 years down the road and find out you have been played. I guess what I am saying is try to be realistic with what is going on. I would be thinking a lot of how honest she is being with you.  It does seem like when you say one thing, she takes it as being something else. Is that lack of understanding or manipulation? My partner is my best friend. We work  together to find  solutions and we don't manipulate each other. Let me be clear, I am not saying she does. It is me saying, don't lie to yourself about what is going on. You should be respectful to the people close to you, but you deserve to be happy too, and not stifle everything you want.
Moni
Chelsea, you are an adult, if you want your ears pierced, go do it. No one guesses 'trans' when a 'man' pierces ears, well, not since the 60's anyway.
Moni

As a SO I think Joanne's advice is good. You have to ask yourself which pain is worse, - losing your wife and family, or staying a man? My situation is a bit different as my partner has never considered complete transition (maybe hormones, for the mental aspect), but his dysphoria (which he hasn't had diagnosed yet, so not even sure if that is what he has) is not debilitating. He's not suicidal. Never has been. He is still at the stage of 'exploring his feminine side'. Doesn't want to be referred to as a she. Doesn't want a femme name. Likes his 'male parts'. He has 2 pierced ears - always had one, but recently got the other one done. It never bothered me. I bought him a pair of earrings for Christmas last year. And I have never had any problems with men wearing make up, even though he only ever uses the tiniest amount.

What has helped us was making a wishlist - at the moment I have only done mine (still waiting for his) and he went through with a 'yes/no/never/maybe/maybe one day' for each thing. He is happy to compromise as long as I 'allow' him to do certain things to make him happy. At the moment this is wearing women's underwear and some 'unisex' clothing, and him shaving his body hair (I don't like hairy men anyway, so it doesn't worry me).

I am aware that things can change, and the boundaries can get moved in the future. If you are happy to wait the 5 years that is fine, but maybe your wife could compromise on a few things in the meantime? Like the earrings? It really isn't unusual for men to have 2 earring these days.

Wishing you all the best.

S

Here's the thing, I don't know how old you are but you need to realize that five years is five more years testosterone ravages you. And you also need to realize that it's not just five years. In five years you're not going to just wake up and poof, you will be female. In five years you will be STARTING your transition. There is counseling, hair removal unless you do it now, voice therapy, possible FFS and BA and finally SRS. And it takes at least 2-3 years for good results from hrt. If you really rush everything you're looking at 3 years. More realistically you're looking at five years from transition to SRS. That's TEN more years until you finally become yourself.

Quote from: HappyMoni on September 30, 2017, 08:00:56 AMNo one guesses 'trans' when a 'man' pierces ears, well, not since the 60's anyway.

Those of us that grew up in the age of dinosaurs KNOW that is exactly what others think 

Quote from: JoanneB on September 30, 2017, 08:51:32 AM
Those of us that grew up in the age of dinosaurs KNOW that is exactly what others think 

You are  right Joanne. Back then, showing anything (feminine) was social suicide, or at least the perception of certain doom. These days, in many places, thankfully it has relaxed. I would imagine that not only do you worry about the views of friends and family Chelsea, but you have to do the internal battle that you have been told all your life that any girl stuff isn't allowable for you. That can be very  hard to get past. I used to walk as male as possible so no one would 'know.' Of course that was all in my head. To this day, I have a hard time with my voice because of the internal voice saying, "Don't talk that way." I'm full time over a year and I find I still restrict myself. I hope you can find the things you can do to make yourself more comfortable while you are in limbo.
Moni

Quote from: HappyMoni on September 30, 2017, 08:00:56 AM
I don't want to be negative here but from everything you said  it sounds like if you wait another 5 years, there will be another reason you have to wait 5 more.

Yes, this.  To your wife, "5 years" probably means "not now, and not ever if I have anything to say about it."  I think you need to turn that 5 years into a date.  Mark it on the calendar: September 2022, you can start transitioning.  If your wife will commit to a date, you will have reason to hope.  If she won't, she means no.