Hi everyone. So since discussing the subject of transwomen overcompensating while they were pretending to be cis guys, I've been very curious about this. For those of you who were successful pretending to be masculine cis guys, did you sympathize with people who were different. I.E. Perceived as being gay, sissy boys or nerds.  Or did you make fun of them along with the other guys? And I'm not judging anyone who answers. Dysphoria makes people do drastic things. I'm just very curious about this.

I can say with 100% honesty that I was and forever will be a huge nerd. I certainly have a very eclectic group of friends who I met though non other then chess club. We were misfits 10 years ago and we are still misfits today.

That said I think I was drawn to them because they were accepting non judgemental and knew what it was like to be the outcasts just like I did.

Amazingly we all met when I changed school in 2001 and we still catch up once a week and hang out and play DnD. Can't get much nerdier then that lol.

To there credit most of them worked it out before I came out to them and also they we super supportive and have treated it like nothing has changed.

-Mara


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I was, with the exception of a short period in my late teens/early 20's, very pro-LGBT.

I abandoned the Baptist Church and joined the Episcopal church specifically because they're one of the most pro-LGBT denominations and Baptists are arguably the worst.

I rejected the political party I was raised in specifically because of the GOP's anti-LGBT stance.

I was always defensive of LGBT people in high-school and to friends and family.

The short period that was an exception occurred not long after I started to realize that I had gender issues and was attracted to men. For some reason it was fine for other people but not me.

That's when I joined the military in an attempt to prove people wrong that I wasn't gay and girly, and could fit into the male roles and enjoy that kind of stuff (I didn't). I also converted to Islam specifically because it was anti-LGBT and used it as a vehicle to repress those aspects of my personality. I got fairly involved and did some inter-community anti-LGBT stuff.

This occurred largely because my mother was so anti-LGBT. I was terrified of losing my family and support structure. In an effort to preserve my safety net, I reacted with that sort of "violence" towards my actual self.

That started destroying me from the inside out and I became a toxic mess. Then I abandoned Islam, joined the Episcopal Church and started coming to terms with myself which blah blah blah, led to now. Now I'm back to how I was in my teens in terms of thoughts towards LGBT ppl/subject and defending them from family and whoever. Though now its a little bit different, since I'm part of the group and I have to deal with personal attacks.

Well for me I was always on the outskirts as well. I was a nerd. I hung out with the outcasts and so got made fun of a bit. When I went to college I redid my image to be less perception of nerdom. As such I started hanging out with other crowds. I grew up in a very close minded religious up bringing as a Mormon. So in college I was a mean person and made fun of men like you describe. Which was also my own personal insecurities of what I knew was the real me but, didn't know how to express that. Instead I lashed out at those like me because I didn't like myself. I tried to be more manly with growing facial hair and tried to get ultra buff. This really did not help me only expounded my GD. This is a great question and love it!!! Although I don't like my past but, hopefully I can make up for it and become better in the mean time.

I was very good at pretending to be cis male because even I didn't know I was pretending!  I am not by nature a mean person and sort of try to accept even if I can't condone.  As a cis male married (and still am, thankfully) while raising two  boys I guess I was fairly anti flamer gay.  I have a friend who is a hairdresser that everyone said was gay (I still don't really know) and I asked him once.  He denied but it really wouldn't have made a difference because I know him as a friend.  I remember going "eeeew" when playboy had their trans centerfold.  So I guess, and my wife has said so, I was not particularly LBGT friendly, though not a basher.  I did have a bad experience with a gay person when I was young that tried to take advantage of me.  I was able to stay safe, but it turned out he was a predator first, and gay second, and I think that didn't help my view.  Needless to say I'm somewhat ashamed, but I didn't know then what I know now.
Toni

I'm another one of the huge nerd crowd, so was never really traditionally masculine, but for my part I had a mix of feelings and attitudes, though was predominantly supportive of everyone no matter their difference. To focus on the LGBT specifically... Lesbians and Bisexual women never phased me in the slightest, and I had a seemingly cliche attraction to them (but not in an objectifying "let me watch" way, I now realize I wanted to be with them as a woman). A bit more complicated emotions involving Transwomen for obvious reasons(I honestly had zero experience with Transmen prior to these forums that I am aware of, but assume the following applies there too). I always strongly considered them (us!) to be women no matter what state of my mind I was in, and I'm proud of myself now that I felt that way even then since it helps me to accept myself better. I still remember watching The Crying Game and (no wordplay intended) being in tears that the dude rejected Dill (the trans female lead) and prayed they'd wind up together in the end, not understanding what the problem was. Likewise for an episode of the show Cold Case, which had an episode about a transgender woman that just destroyed me emotionally. (Seriously, now that I'm thinking about this how in the hell did I not realize I was crying because I thought that would be me...)

The only thing that never really sat right with me, and if I'm honest still bothers me, are over the top flamboyant gay men. I don't mean everyday life flamboyant, I mean the cliche of the pride parade guys on a float wearing nothing but a red speedo and a fireman's hat while shooting an extinguisher filled with glitter. Part of that is because I suffer from serious sexual repression though and public exposure in general makes me uncomfortable. Even then, that was how I felt about a singular instance of behavior and not the person being gay. (A straight guy doing it would have been equally as bad to me in other words.) Also it really was just about my own discomfort, and not that I was passing judgment. I'm too much of a liberty for all person philosophically to be able to do so.

I was tolerant of others and had no problems being with people who were different than I. I had the attitude that as long as they didn't bother me directly they were entitled to live their life as befit them. But I never considered that I was in fact one of them. I was a crossdresser and ashamed of it but knew I had no control over it. I only joined their ranks  last November when I discovered that I was transgender instead of a crossdresser.

Alas, I can recall trying to be a cis male, to no avail. No matter how I acted, or what I did, people saw right through me, like I was a window. I was such an outcast, I considered myself fortunate when I found people willing to hang out. This led to smoking pot, and hanging out with people that were certainly less than desirable to the establishment. But then, the establishment had been kicking me to the curb since I was a rug rat.
Since transitioning, I have changed enough that the establishment tolerates me. I'll consider that a victory. White male privilege? Hah! I never had it.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 05, 2017, 12:42:03 PM. . . did you sympathize with people who were different. I.E. Perceived as being gay, sissy boys or nerds.

We we're called 'tree people', as opposed to jocks and freaks, because of where we gathered between 'blocks' in the Greenwich High student center (which had small potted trees).  Have associated with 'gays' on & off most of life but never considered myself 'LGBT', some friends of which went on to become very successful. 

In truth I find so-called 'normal cis' people somewhat ignorant and strange and have always prided myself on remaining apart from group think, 'tribal' mentalities entirely!! LOL In other words I do not discriminate when it comes to people I dislike. Fight my own battles don't need 'big govt' to do it for me!!

I compensated by playing sports and dating girls in high school, but I didn't want to pretend to be cis masculine in other ways even if I could. Because of my girlish looks, girls thought I was cute, and I was voted cutest "guy" my senior year. Believe me, that was no badge of honor. I suffered homophobic slurs and getting beat up. I didn't know there was such a thing as transgender. I just knew I wasn't one of them, possibly gay, and liked to cross dress and wear makeup in private. My narcissistic girlfriend looked back at me in the mirror. So, my answer is more 'empathy' than 'sympathy'.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 05, 2017, 12:42:03 PM
subject of transwomen overcompensating while they were pretending to be cis guys,

Ok Julia I will answer half part of your question 
I'm force to pretend that I'm cis guy because otherwise I will face death arrest torture etc you name it
It's all thanks to shariah laws in my country " I'm atheist too " and this something extra I have to hide too

I'm feminine and Im on hrt for so many years and this make hiding my identity very hard

I don't have guys friends or do anything that consider manly , I can't even if I want

I notice if I try to do anything manly it become more obvious that I'm not " cis guy "
I just keep quite and ready to run

A lot of unspeakable things happens and still happen with me

Why I don't just live as woman ? I can't shariah laws don't allow transgenders to transition or live as woman

Even before I take the female hormones I never was "one of the guys"
I'm always the quite soft one who is target for bullying

My dysphoria is very strong
It's very obvious that I'm a woman and I love my femininity but I have to hide it

Not only me ALL trans girls here are force to hide their true self or face sever punishment

The worst part my country don't recognize gender dysphoria or transsexual and transition

They recognize trans girls as feminine gays and we all know what gay punishment is in Islamic countries

I know trans girl who look exactly like you she was arrest and torture and later killed by her father for being trans

I'm hiding myself so I don't face the same fate
I want to escape alive

Although i am sure there were ways that i contributed to various phobias in my early life, by in large i was socially liberal and accepting of people. I hated dated men and women and had more than a few lgtb friends and coworkers. I was not ultra masculine but i was confusing to many because i was good at masculine things like football, but presented myself as fairly feminine.

When i approached intolerance, it more often than not was toward conservative or certain religious people and their world views. I stopped all conservatism and became a socialist, so i swung the pendulum back in the other direction fairly hard. I try very hard now not to criticize those with those world views now, only when they come after me and my human rights.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 05, 2017, 12:42:03 PM
Hi everyone. So since discussing the subject of transwomen overcompensating while they were pretending to be cis guys, I've been very curious about this. For those of you who were successful pretending to be masculine cis guys, did you sympathize with people who were different. I.E. Perceived as being gay, sissy boys or nerds.  Or did you make fun of them along with the other guys? And I'm not judging anyone who answers. Dysphoria makes people do drastic things. I'm just very curious about this.

It evolved over time. My acceptance of gays (and FtMs, sorry guys) evolved from full misunderstanding (from gross, how can they do it, there must be something wrong with them - while my crossdressing or lesbian relationships - made a lot of sense to me ) to more or less agreeing to disagree, and enjoying the open-minded LGBT-inclusive culture. That is internally. I still don't understand them, but understand that I don't have means to understand them, not that they are wrong or unreasonable.

Externally, I project a libertarian spirit of an open-minded conservative (every one has right to pursue his or her happiness no matter if I agree or disagree with it - as long as it doesn't threaten me physically). I support LGBT rights. But I distance myself from any gays, lesbians, trans or other people.

To be honest, I distance myself from everyone including my family. I can be more open with a stranger on a road than with my closest people (and receive more kindness and support from them). It hurts and it sucks, but we will all die in the end, and I am not in any rush.

Before transition, I used to have very negative views of the LGBT community and LGBT people.  Lesbians, gays, bi, trans - yes, I disliked them all and believed they were all sinful and disgusting.

I think it is a large part of the reason why I still hate myself so much despite how successful my transition has been.

I suppose it's okay for ftm's to answer your question too? (Since it says a question for everyone, I mean). I was overcompensating before my transition as well, by being very feminine as I tried to somehow "fix" my own dysphoria in the one way it absolutely did not work, but the point is I thought it would make me forget about being trans. I'll answer as relating to more masculine appearing cis girls. At that time in my life (teens, over a decade ago now) I did feel some slight resentment to masculine girls that I didn't show to anyone, at least I tried very hard not to. I suppose I had some sort of cognitive dissonance in the sense that I both admired their confidence to be themselves at the same time as I felt that resentment. I feared that people would realise that I was trans back then, that they'd somehow see that truth through my make-up, which was also a reason why I exaggerated my looks and manners so much. A few people even thought that I was a drag queen. I never made fun of other people though, not beyond harmless jokes between close friends, whatever I may or may not have thought about anyone. I was mostly just lost in the world within my own head that I didn't pay all that much attention to the world around me. I worried about their opinions of me, but I didn't have much of any opinions of them.

Rose, I just want to say something cause I found your comment to be very powerful, and it pains me that you're having such a hard time being yourself where you live. I only know a little about shariah law and it sounds bad, especially the part of it that you mentioned. I'm glad for you that you got to be on hrt although I see that can also increase risk of people finding out. I hope you stay as safe as you can.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 05, 2017, 12:42:03 PM
Hi everyone. So since discussing the subject of transwomen overcompensating while they were pretending to be cis guys, I've been very curious about this. For those of you who were successful pretending to be masculine cis guys, did you sympathize with people who were different. I.E. Perceived as being gay, sissy boys or nerds.  Or did you make fun of them along with the other guys? And I'm not judging anyone who answers. Dysphoria makes people do drastic things. I'm just very curious about this.

I can kind of approach this from different viewpoints since I was an outcast to start with as a kid, being BIG, fat stuttering, and shy. Also know as an Easy Target. Which many took advantage of. Still I had various groups I can sort of fit in around the edges, being as smart and devious as I was. I DESPERATELY wanted to fit in any way, any how. I learned to be a chameleon. There were only two aspects of "Guy-Hood" I couldn't get into as I got semi-older (teens); Sports and being a total pig about girls. Both taken to such an extreme any semi-enjoyment from a Yankees or Mets game was killed. The girls part, I just couldn't get at all on any level.

Still, we are talking teens and the NEED to fit in was in double overdrive. Being your basic nerd, they sure were off bounds. Nut scratching, grunting, monosyllabic jocks were fair game. Being I was in a very blue collar and recent immigrant city just outside NYC, pick your ethnic group or nationality when "In the Crowd" of others that actually let you in. Back in the day, there were no such things as really "Gay" guys. Yet, somehow I had some 5'5" 110 lb idiot in h/s who thought he was so smart to constantly ask me; "Are you Gay or just Queer?", like tens of times a day. Mind you I was 3 inches taller and 50 lbs heavier. He and his toadies gave me a WIDE berth and never a peep after his head put a very sizeable dent into a locker... several times. I may have been nerd, but I could take care of myself and then some, and had since like 3rd grade thanks to idiots like him.

It was only after H/S, in uni, and later in life, when you are in the midst of "The Real World" did I develop any sense of the real me. Which also having a LOT of empathy for the down trodden. I knew all to well the pain. Being a chameleon of sorts allowed me to do some advocacy on their behalf.

While not proud of it, the Shame and Guilt of being trans, and the need to "Fit In" does still take some precedence even today as I stand before you with one foot in the grave and another on a banana peel. I do a lot more advocating, yet, try not to cause too many waves. I pick my battles vs others I know who are on a "Mission" to educate others. In the case of most zealots, it usually does not end well 

I don't think I was ever believed that I was cis, but I did pretend and tried to be macho.  I however I never made fun of anybody who wasn't.  Once we really did something macho, I'd fail.  Like sports, never, ever ever have I played well, or even understand the rules of any sport. That seemed to always come up.  Another is working out, which I did go to the gym a lot with friends in college.  I would end up riding the bike and retiring to the sauna.  Then they'd come in all pumped up after their workout, um yum.  I remember my guy friends wanting to be pumped.  I'm, why not just thin, so fail.   I've gone to gay bars with my gay friends too, and they all thought I was their token straight guy of the group.  What they didn't know though is I am straight, and I like guys, let them figure it out:)

Bari Jo

Quote from: Bari Jo on October 06, 2017, 07:54:48 PM
I don't think I was ever believed that I was cis, but I did pretend and tried to be macho.  I however I never made fun of anybody who wasn't.  Once we really did something macho, I'd fail.  Like sports, never, ever ever have I played well, or even understand the rules of any sport. That seemed to always come up.  Another is working out, which I did go to the gym a lot with friends in college.  I would end up riding the bike and retiring to the sauna.  Then they'd come in all pumped up after their workout, um yum.  I remember my guy friends wanting to be pumped.  I'm, why not just thin, so fail.   I've gone to gay bars with my gay friends too, and they all thought I was their token straight guy of the group.  What they didn't know though is I am straight, and I like guys, let them figure it out:)

Bari Jo

I really don't understand the obssesion so many guys have with working out. If I didn't know better I would think it's an addiction. My boyfriend, brother and dad are all gym rats. They spend untold hours at the gym. They have all kinds of protein powders and protein bars. I understand wanting to look good but the constant weight lifting seems a little obsessive to me.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 07, 2017, 07:04:30 AM
I really don't understand the obssesion so many guys have with working out. If I didn't know better I would think it's an addiction. My boyfriend, brother and dad are all gym rats. They spend untold hours at the gym. They have all kinds of protein powders and protein bars. I understand wanting to look good but the constant weight lifting seems a little obsessive to me.

I don't like weightlifting or cardio, but a few times I've done it - the body releases some powerful endorphins that tell you did a good thing.

And then - big muscles need maintenance, or they become flabby and that look of solid muscles is lost.

And in the guy world strength is an equivalent to beauty in female world. You aren't tired of visiting spas, moisturizing your skin, waxing, etc... Guys (especially those who are popular and used to it) wouldn't want to lose their competitive advantage either

Oh I would have bullied all of you nerds! :@