i have been stealth almost a third of my life, i have read this article that says stealth is soul destroying.  and i disaggree but as of late, with our political climate in America there is a defiant aspect to my psyche that tells me i should be out to help support the community.  im worried i will destroy what i built.  living stealth.  will people feel like i lied to them? am i just going to throw all i worked so hard for? i have always tried to be strong and stand up for my fellow person but living stealth i feel like i have done the trans community an injustice.  how do you feel about stealth? am i throwing my hard work away? how would i come out after i never disclosed my status? im in my early 30s.

thank you lil

Quote from: noitsbecky on October 08, 2017, 08:13:59 PM
i have been stealth almost a third of my life, i have read this article that says stealth is soul destroying.  and i disaggree but as of late, with our political climate in America there is a defiant aspect to my psyche that tells me i should be out to help support the community.   im worried i will destroy what i built.  living stealth.  will people feel like i lied to them? am i just going to throw all i worked so hard for? i have always tried to be strong and stand up for my fellow person but living stealth i feel like i have done the trans community an injustice.  how do you feel about stealth? am i throwing my hard work away? how would i come out after i never disclosed my status? im in my early 30s.

thank you lil

Honestly I disagree 100%  (actually agree with you..disagree with the whole soulstealing notion ) People don't need to know about my birth defect (and to be blunt it WAS a birth defect) that was fixed.  If I was born with a bad lisp that got fixed, or had a bad scar that healed... or any other tragedy would I feel compelled to tell everyone I meet about  it?  MAYBE if we got really really close I might.. but even then?

We live in such a judgmental  society that will automatically assume one thing, and completely close off any thought of anything else.. even the best meaning people do this; I think it is hardwired in our brains to do this, from the earliest traditions of human culture/society.

I live stealth, and it will stay that way.  Feel free to out yourself to the world, but good luck with that... and I'd watch your back honestly because there are people being taught to hate now, people that will target you simply for being what you are.

Just my 2 cents worth, for what its worth.

Becky,
     I would be amiss if I said that none of us have had stealth stage or stealth mode. I am in my mid-30's and just came out to everyone a few months back. No one told me they felt I betrayed them. They all told me that they saw there was something that I wouldn't completely be open to them about. Most understood that I had been hiding and overall accepted the fact that this was what I felt was right for me. It is never too late to come out as yourself. Ultimately, you have to be comfortable coming out and what does it mean for you in the future. Do you make some changes or none at all. We in the transgender community come in all shapes, forms, colors, and spectrums. You can still support the community as a whole without coming out. We allies all over that aren't trans necessarily. So I don't think you are doing anyone an injustice.

The issue is not being transgender in 2017, rather the issue is that the for lack of a better term "feminist millennials" or "college gender studies dropouts" have taken transgender terminology and used it as a way of pushing their current agendas. Indeed as someone who has been a part of politics and social sciences for over a two decades in Australia and Europe I can tell you very simply that until recently your average joe could give two hoots about who you are, as long as you do not do harm to others. Whereas now being trans* is now seen as a political statement akin to black lives matter or antifa.

Because of this alone I personally would not expose myself to unwarranted hatred or martyrdom to fuel the wanted needs off a bunch of extremist radical hate mongers.

/remember this is just my view and open to debate

I don't think being stealth is soul destroying at all. Having people hate you for something you have no choice in is what is soul destroying.

I am a great supporter of being proud and open to be the 3rd gender female. Stealth is more dangerous if you get caught in the USA. Its particularly dangerous if you are a mtf in the black community as they have the highest homicides rates. Im not an american but cant understand the hyprocracy of political correctness and not make the black community face, accept and correct this issue.

Quote from: warlockmaker on October 08, 2017, 09:38:06 PM
I am a great supporter of being proud and open to be the 3rd gender female. Stealth is more dangerous if you get caught in the USA. Its particularly dangerous if you are a mtf in the black community as they have the highest homicides rates. Im not an american but cant understand the hyprocracy of political correctness and not make the black community face, accept and correct this issue.

Well being out in the black community is probably just as bad as being stealth too in that regards... since I'm neither black nor pre op, to me its a bit of an odd comparison.  Plus I'm intersexed, exactly what should I go spurting (multiple diagnosis, but ultimately sums up to the same thing.. born 'odd'.). ?  Ultimately, to each their own.  I've had enough of religious hate & persecution over the years from my own parents refusal to accept multiple things and glaringly obvious symptoms... based on their own perceived black & white world.  I don't need to out myself to everyone to get even more of the same.  However.. to each their own. This is what I feel is right for me.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 08, 2017, 09:10:18 PM
I don't think being stealth is soul destroying at all. Having people hate you for something you have no choice in is what is soul destroying.

Preach. Though I think it does come with a bit of an added anxiety that you might be outed someway, somehow.

Quote from: noitsbecky on October 08, 2017, 08:13:59 PM
... but as of late, with our political climate in America there is a defiant aspect to my psyche that tells me i should be out to help support the community.   im worried i will destroy what i built.  living stealth.

There are certain factions in the transgender and other activists community promoting this "out and proud" mentality as part of their mantra and there does seem to be the popular opinion that those that do live their lives privately somehow "aren't doing enough". Don't let 'em get to you.

If it weren't for those of us that got our treatment and then went on to disappear into society living normal lives adding to the statistics as being successful with an improved quality of life, where would this "community" be? #stealthlivesmatter  Don't let anyone make you think otherwise.

There other ways you can help. I'm fortunate enough to have a few hundred bucks a year to donate to trans focused support organizations and even toss a bit to the NCTE even if I'm not completely on board with all their agenda. I put myself out as a resource on the private forums at Gender Spectrum for parents that might be wondering if their trans kids are going to grow up and be okay? (I did and they will) I've joined the forum here to share some of the experiences from my life that may in small ways be helpful to others.

There's also degrees of "stealth", quoted because that's a horrible term. There's reasonable stealth where a few, usually close friends and family know and there's insane stealth where you live in fear and paranoia that someone will find out your grand secret. The latter is soul crushing and if "hiding" is causing big stress and anxiety, it isn't healthy either.

I was fortunate to blend in well by the time I completed social transition after graduating high school in 1973 and I surely wasn't about to go around broadcasting I was anything other than how I was seen or known as especially at my work and in my neighborhood. I've lived the blended in life but that doesn't mean there aren't a few people that do know my history. I certainly wouldn't be happy if the whole world knew and if I did out myself publicly, I'm sure I would regret the decision and I urge you to think real hard before doing anything you might regret as well especially if driven by outside pressures and opinions. I wouldn't like being known as anyone or anything I haven't been for the last 45 years or so but I don't lose any sleep over it. That's just my preference and what works best for me and I won't be put down because of it.

Now if they start rounding us up and putting in camps, that's a different story.

Quote from: Sarah leah on October 08, 2017, 09:05:19 PM
The issue is not being transgender in 2017, rather the issue is that the for lack of a better term "feminist millennials" or "college gender studies dropouts" have taken transgender terminology and used it as a way of pushing their current agendas. Indeed as someone who has been a part of politics and social sciences for over a two decades in Australia and Europe I can tell you very simply that until recently your average joe could give two hoots about who you are, as long as you do not do harm to others. Whereas now being trans* is now seen as a political statement akin to black lives matter or antifa.

Because of this alone I personally would not expose myself to unwarranted hatred or martyrdom to fuel the wanted needs off a bunch of extremist radical hate mongers.

/remember this is just my view and open to debate

"Extremist radical hate mongers" might be a bit harsh but I know what you're talking about and you'll get no debate from me.

I was so sure that I would go stealth if I could pass. I think that I mostly pass now but even so I don't think that stealth for me is possible. Even if I knew for sure that I pass 100% I couldn't go stealth. I would have to lie all the time and live that lie for the rest of my life. I can't, I just can't.

I won't. So what if I can be myself if I am still in a prison of shame about who I am?

Besides, I don't know how to lie like that anymore. So I have tried to just be quiet or mislead without outright telling an untruth, but then it has to be very superficial friendships. I want more I suppose. I know that it must sound pathetic, but I have spent my entire life like that and I don't want to be so separate anymore.

As scared as I am, I am myself. And I don't feel like I have to advertise or anything, just not be too ashamed to be honest if it comes down to it. I don't know if stealth is soul destroying and it's not likely that I will ever find out. I think that if someone wants to be stealth and can get away with it, it's wonderful.  I only wish that I could, but how many wishes come true?

Michelle

I don't see stealth as 'lying' to the general populace... Frankly who among us blurt out the honest 100% truth to every single person we meet.  "Keeping it real" as some put it?  Keeping it real is a real quick way of losing friends, loved ones, job, and even your life.  We all filter what we say to others based on what circumstances require.  Being yourself doesn't mean spilling the beans on all of lifes mysteries.   

Again, if you feel like being out & about, go for it.  Just understand 'different strokes for different folks'.. we all have our own life to live, and our own method to live it.

Wow, is everything I say going to be misinterpreted or twisted?

I said that I don't advertise, meaning that I do not tell anyone unless and until I get close to them.

I did say that I think that it is great if someone can go stealth.

Whatever.

Quote from: FinallyMichelle on October 09, 2017, 01:40:45 AM
Wow, is everything I say going to be misinterpreted or twisted?

I said that I don't advertise, meaning that I do not tell anyone unless and until I get close to them.

I did say that I think that it is great if someone can go stealth.

Whatever.

I didn't mean to offend, just stating how I feel about advertising or being 'out'.  Honestly for those that proudly work the SAME job they had before, and keep working there post?  To me that probably takes more guts than simply hiding like some of us do.  If you can do that, my figurative hat is off to you!  Honestly, I think it is impressive to do that.. I certainly didn't. 

Probably same goes for those that will tell people willingly if someone raises an eyebrow or ask; It does help to provide education to those willing to learn.   I've never actually had anyone ask me to be honest. Probably why I took this route in the first place.

Again, I didn't mean to seem insulting or anything.

I agree fully with FinallyMichelle, we have lied to ourselves and to be in stealth would be perpetuating and living a life of lies. You dont have to shout it from the rooftop but good friends and male relationships should know, just because they are good friends and with male relationships for safety.  I am proud to be a tg female, the 3rd gender. I feel it is less intrusive for the cis males and cis females and will be the road to full acceptance.

I pass fully and I feel we should have pride in who we are and hiding only shows your shame. But if you want stealth thats fine. But respect those of us who feel pride and not shame, we are the ones that will bring about changes in society to help all of us.

I don't know how well I will be able to pass in the future, but I suspect not well enough to attempt stealth.  I know that I wouldn't want to.  Not judging anyone else, but for me, stealth would be soul-destroying.  I lived 60 years of stealth as a guy and it was sucking the life out of me.  I don't see any difference between being in the closet and being stealth.

On the other hand, I have the luxury of living in a tolerant and generally accepting country.  If I lived in a country where acceptance is rare and even tolerance is in peril, I might be forced to be stealth.  Or perhaps I would be p*ssed off enough to become an activist.  I don't know.

If someone wants to be out and proud that's great. I'm never going to be one of those people. I feel being out to everyone defeats the purpose of transition. I don't want to be known as trans or the third sex. I wouldn't be able to have a happy life. This is just me but I feel like as soon as most people know you're trans, it's over. No matter how accepting they seem they no longer see you as female. They see you as something less .  That's just how I feel. After everything I've been through I never want to be known as
"That ->-bleeped-<-" or " that guy who had a sex change". For me that would be almost as bad as being a guy. People are more accepting than they were in the past but don't think they're totally accepting because they aren't! 

My mom tells me I'm not a "real" girl all the time. If my own mother can't accept me as a woman what chance do I have with people in general?  Then I have my boyfriend to think about. There have been a couple of incidents where people I knew before transition have outed me to him. It didn't really bother him. But if I was out and everyone knew I was trans that would be awful for him. We know how totally mean people can be. He would have to deal with people questioning his sexuality and saying stuff to him. With a trans person its guilt by association.  I learned from what happened to my brother. I can't help being trans but I also don't want people I love to be hurt for it.

I would tell any guy I was having a relationship with I'm trans. But that's it. I wouldn't tell my friends. Friends can't be trusted not to blab. Knowing someone is trans is too juicy not to gossip about. I would never attend any kind of pride parade and after that one awful experience with a support group I won't ever attend another one. Honestly I don't need a support group. Whatever issues I might be having I can talk about it and get good advice here.

I would also never turn my back on a trans person who needed my help. I have a 16 year old transgirl I'm trying to help as much as I can. She's not at all passable because she just transitioned and just started hrt. But I have no problem being in public with her. I'm not ashamed of being trans but I'm not proud of it either. To me it would be like being proud of having a cleft pallet. I intend to be as stealth as possible. But that's what I want. I'm not judging anyone that's proud of being trans. But personally I could never be proud of something that has caused me so much pain.

If being "stealth" is emotionally satisfying for someone that's cool. Coming out has consequences. As a result of coming out I have to rebuild a new life with new friends and social activities as a woman. I'm in the process of doing that. I don't want to be ID'd as transgender. I'm a gender queer woman, if there's such a thing. I could not care less about supporting a "cause." I'm out but I'm no martyr. It's about making me happy not saving the world. Stealth is cool, but it's hard to stay that way. Best wishes.

Quote from: Sarah leah on October 08, 2017, 09:05:19 PM
The issue is not being transgender in 2017, rather the issue is that the for lack of a better term "feminist millennials" or "college gender studies dropouts" have taken transgender terminology and used it as a way of pushing their current agendas. Indeed as someone who has been a part of politics and social sciences for over a two decades in Australia and Europe I can tell you very simply that until recently your average joe could give two hoots about who you are, as long as you do not do harm to others. Whereas now being trans* is now seen as a political statement akin to black lives matter or antifa.

Because of this alone I personally would not expose myself to unwarranted hatred or martyrdom to fuel the wanted needs off a bunch of extremist radical hate mongers.

/remember this is just my view and open to debate

I actually agree with you on this. This is the reason I have backed out trans activism, because I feel like now it represents a post-genderist/trans-humanist ideology that I just can't support. Ensuring that gender-nonconforming and transsexual people are not discriminated against or victims of violence are causes I feel like are worth fighting for, because their condition is supported by science and their treatments are proven effective. But promoting the idea of people modifying their bodies as if they were video game avatars, purely for aesthetic purposes, and adopting the language of trans people in order to defend their choices... that's a completely different agenda. I also feel like that's the one that people think of when they hear "transgender" these days (which is also a word I'm not super crazy about).

I also agree with Julia in that people will look at you differently. The people I work with know me as female. As soon as I tell them I'm trans, they may not see me as male, but they won't see me the way they did before when they assumed I was just another cis woman. I also can't risk that getting around, because I work in a big hotel and there are a lot of people in it... someone might have a problem and might give me issues with the bathroom and locker room that I use.

I live out in the Texas hill country.  I'm getting along in my hrt and body changes are really getting noticeable.  We have decided to leave this place for one more culturally diverse and safer but it's not going to happen over night.  Takes a while to "unweave" a web.  So, for my own safety and that of my wife, I have to be as stealth as I can, which is starting to cause some problems for me.  I'm not sure I will pass stealth for more than a couple of months more, my spirit really doesn't want to, but it will take probably at least another year to wind down and sell everything before re locating.  I don't think living comfortably stealth is problematic if you can do it and decide that's for you, but I think if you HAVE to live stealth I can see it can cause some of the same anxieties and stress that our initial denial of ourselves did.  If that is the case, I think it could be damaging and I'm somewhat in fear of exactly that in spite of huge successes with my dysphora in so many other ways.  Right now the difference in the joy and freedom I feel on our trips to the city are in sharp contrast to the shadow I live in out here, even though I'm well known in the area, which makes matters worse at this point.   Toni

Quote from: warlockmaker on October 09, 2017, 05:47:33 AM
I pass fully and I feel we should have pride in who we are and hiding only shows your shame. But if you want stealth thats fine. But respect those of us who feel pride and not shame, we are the ones that will bring about changes in society to help all of us.

This was really insulting.  You accuse those who are living in stealth of hiding in shame, while at the same time demanding respect from them?  That's messed up.