I have been using pellets since starting my HRT some time ago but my new Dr is not keen on these because of the issues when they start to run out. She wants me to use Patches which seem like a really good way to deal with it. However I have had some issues with Transdermal Patches before.

Have you had any troubles with the following

1) Effective adhesion to the skin...do they come off when you sweat? or your skin gets hot or any other reason (showering etc)x

2) Do you get any irritation from the substance used in them or the actual glue on the patches.

I have been on patches since starting HRT in March of this year. Initially they were Mylan brand, but I had to go to mail order and was switched to Sandoz. I have had absolutely no issues with adhesion. I prep the target area with an alcohol pad first and make sure there are no hairs in the way before applying the patch. I walk about two miles a day and use an elliptical machine for 1 hour three time a week. I am soaking with sweat when I am done, but I have never had a patch come off due to exercise or showering.

I do not notice any irritation from the patches or the adhesive. Once you remove the patches there is some adhesive left on your skin which can be hard to remove. Some folks have used acetone (fingernail polish remover) to help remove the adhesive (not recommended), but it will usually wear off by itself after a few days.

What issues when they start to run out?

If I had to use them I prefer the ones that you replace twice a week. The once weekly patches cause a lot more irritation and come loose more easily.

Having said that, no transdermal HRT works very well for me as its not absorbed very well.

Quote from: AnonyMs on October 12, 2017, 10:21:09 PM
What issues when they start to run out?

If I had to use them I prefer the ones that you replace twice a week. The once weekly patches cause a lot more irritation and come loose more easily.

Having said that, no transdermal HRT works very well for me as its not absorbed very well.

The issues as my new Dr sees them (I don't have a great deal of faith in her), are the run down period where she feels they cannot be replaced until HRT levels drop into the 150's because once the pellets are implanted, levels will then increase to around the 1500 mark and if you put a new pellet in too soon, the levels can be up into the 3000's.  Personally until seeing this Dr I never had an issue with pellets as I was given another one after 6 months...never had the "wind down" effect that is occurring now. If My estimate is correct my levels will currently be under 100 pg/ml

The problems you describe with the patches is exactly what I experienced with them. I had them for a different purpose but the absorption rate was awful which forced a staggered patch system in order to get the desirable levels of the drug...because I was changing 1 patch every other day my skin reacted badly and I was left with big red itchy welts. They were forever falling off so I would have to use tape to hold them in place. The glue from the tape was never an issue.

Hence my reluctance to use patches but coming up to GCS I will have to stop using HRT for a short while(shout out to Michelle hope you are doing Ok) and it will be in planning for this that it really becomes a problem when we will have to find an alternative to the pellet. I am trying to see if the skin irritation issue is common...maybe these will be different....then again maybe not.

Quote from: Jessica_Rose on October 12, 2017, 10:08:43 PM

I do not notice any irritation from the patches or the adhesive. Once you remove the patches there is some adhesive left on your skin which can be hard to remove. Some folks have used acetone (fingernail polish remover) to help remove the adhesive (not recommended), but it will usually wear off by itself after a few days.

Thank you for your reply. I am hoping I may be able to use these on the short term but my skin has not done well with these types of transdermal patches but your history with them is encouraging.

Quote from: ElizabethK on October 12, 2017, 09:23:15 PM
I have been using pellets since starting my HRT some time ago but my new Dr is not keen on these because of the issues when they start to run out. She wants me to use Patches which seem like a really good way to deal with it. However I have had some issues with Transdermal Patches before.

Have you had any troubles with the following

1) Effective adhesion to the skin...do they come off when you sweat? or your skin gets hot or any other reason (showering etc)x

2) Do you get any irritation from the substance used in them or the actual glue on the patches.

1. I used the 'evorel' brand previously from Janssen ,  they stayed on through running,  swimming,  showers and baths.
2. I had some mild irritation,  but moving them around gave time for the skin to recover.

X

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

[Don't you love that - I should have saved the draft thought, when you didn't]

Liz we have to catch up, I know it has been my fault!
I have been engaged in brain-wrestling-anger-management-feeling-sick-why doesn't my ToF work-I feel like falling asleep every 60 minute, issues. I'm trying to ignore them.

I have been on Estrodot patches for about 3-4 years after I gave up on pellets. I have had no problems they are about 1.5cm x 2cm and I use them twice a week on my tummy just below my panty line. I have sensitive skin and have had no irritation from them and no issues on adhesion although there are a few tricks on that.

I get rid of any adhesive residue with "Goo Off".

My E level is a pretty steady 200-250 pmol/L which is lower than what I was on with pellets, I was around 500-600pmol/L on them. I do not feel any oestrogen withdrawal symptoms. For a woman my age I feel the 2-250 is appropriate and less risky.
You are aware of my physical appearance and I feel it is satisfactory for a woman my age. I am never going to be a soft skinned, sun-kissed, voluptuous bikini-clad chick; while that may have been appealing at one time, those days have well gone. Thankfully (I think).

I'm interested in the comments from the local endos and will be catching up socially with some in the coming week or so. I shall be stirring the pot!

Hi Cindy

I know you have your plate just overflowing with stuff and I am sure we will work it out...we will catch up, of that I have no doubt

I had such an awful time with the Transdermal Patches, prior for my pain management. It really was a huge pain in the proverbial backside.

Getting the glue off was never an issue I would have extremely red skin with raised red bumps where the glue stuck to the skin...it never  adhered correctly unless I used further tape to keep it in place and even then the absorption was awful. So I am very wary of them as it was a battle to get my Dr to prescribe something else(we had run out of options)

My current Dr told me, the way I feel as my oestrogen dropped " is the new normal and you need to get used to it" I don't really understand the logic...she is talking about numbers and not the way I feel...again. Anyway I she sent me the script for the pellet so I will get that filled on Thursday depending on the outcome of the shine appointment. 

I am talking to another prescriber from Shine SA on Thursday so will see how that goes.... 

Thanks Cindy

Quote from: meganjames2 on October 13, 2017, 01:54:17 AM
1. I used the 'evorel' brand previously from Janssen ,  they stayed on through running,  swimming,  showers and baths.
2. I had some mild irritation,  but moving them around gave time for the skin to recover.

X

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

Hi Megan

Moving them around certainly helped unfortunately during the early months it took about a week for each used site to return to normal...Thanks for sharing

I think from the replies I have received if I do get issues with the patches I will be in the minority...I was in the minority with the other patches as well. This is going to be a lifetime issue and I am not going through this rubbish every 6+ months as they begin to wind down.

I was worried about the same things. I switched to patches 2 wks ago from pills as I've had trouble quitting smoking (down to 2/day! Yay progress!). I use Mylan & they're ok, bit bigger than a postage stamp. I put them on my bum (I read that the absorption is best there) & rotate from one cheek to the other. I've had 2 come off, each a day early, but they were both my own fault... I forgot 1 was there while showering & scrubbed it partway off, & w/ the soap it didn't want to stick back on... The other was similar, I was putting lotion on & forgot about it, & caught it w/ my fingernail. It too peeled partway off, I got lotion on it & it didn't want to go back on either... Other than that they're pretty good; I mean, I'm homeless (mom didn't take my coming out very well), so I'm pretty active, & I haven't had any issues in my day-to-day activities.

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 Hi Liz,

   I have used the Cimara patch that are 7 day patches and are about 2" X 2.5" so bigger than most. Preping the area with alcohols helped them stick better . Some would loosen in the shower but then restick when the skin dried under the patch. After removal the area would be mildly irritated for about a day. I believe that is why  using a different area when replacing is recommended to allow the area to recover.

This image will give you an idea of how my skin has reacted in the past to Fentanyl Transdermal Patches...usually the welts are in the shape of the patch but after about 12 months of use the whole area began to erupt which I think had an issue with absorption





These are not photo's of me just examples

I used Estradot patches for a while, but had absorption issues.. I did get a red mark where the patches were , but it faded a day or so after removal. Showering was enough to remove any left over adhesive.

Quote from: ElizabethK on October 12, 2017, 09:23:15 PM
I have been using pellets since starting my HRT some time ago but my new Dr is not keen on these because of the issues when they start to run out. She wants me to use Patches which seem like a really good way to deal with it. However I have had some issues with Transdermal Patches before.

Have you had any troubles with the following

1) Effective adhesion to the skin...do they come off when you sweat? or your skin gets hot or any other reason (showering etc)x

2) Do you get any irritation from the substance used in them or the actual glue on the patches.

Hi Elizabeth 🙋 I've been using Climara patches.  At first there was some adhesion issues but they worked better after my skin became less oily.  Slight rash a couple of times.  Not bad though.
Hugs, Jessica 💁

I've been using Mylan patches from the start, in early June. I found after a time, when I perspired where the patch was stuck, the same itchy red welts. My first suspicion was an allergic reaction, as I've had the same in the past for black RIT dye and sweat. Thankfully I was wearing undies for that one, and the itching was epic! At the time I was given cortizone cream and told to bathe regularly. Try that on a horse ranch, nope!

I told my doc about it and what I had done to keep it under control: Over The Counter antihistamines. I use generic Zyrtec. I stopped for a week when I ran out, and the rash came back. The doc was in agreement with what I had done, because it worked. Your doc might have a different opinion or recommendation, you should follow it! I'm on pretty good terms with my doc, so that helps. I'm one of the first trans-women she's dealt with, and she seemed excited to have the opportunity.

Quote from: kelly_aus on October 14, 2017, 05:33:31 PM
I used Estradot patches for a while, but had absorption issues.. I did get a red mark where the patches were , but it faded a day or so after removal. Showering was enough to remove any left over adhesive.

Thanks Kelly I had absorption issues as well but I wonder if that has something to do with my skin being in poor condition, Appreciate your help

Quote from: Jessica on October 14, 2017, 08:56:54 PM
Hi Elizabeth 🙋 I've been using Climara patches.  At first there was some adhesion issues but they worked better after my skin became less oily.  Slight rash a couple of times.  Not bad though.
Hugs, Jessica 💁

.........

Your doc might have a different opinion or recommendation, you should follow it! I'm on pretty good terms with my doc, so that helps. I'm one of the first trans-women she's dealt with, and she seemed excited to have the opportunity.
[/quote]

Hi CoriM

Not so much about Dr's opinions but more about what my skin will tolerate. Many years as a nurse has taught me to advocate for the patient and in this case that patient is me. I know what works for my skin, which is not to say I am not open to try something new and from the information I have gleaned in this thread I would probably give them a go so long as we had a backup plan in place should I have issues.

Thank you for your help

Quote from: Cindy on October 13, 2017, 02:37:54 AMMy E level is a pretty steady 200-250 pmol/L which is lower than what I was on with pellets, I was around 500-600pmol/L on them. I do not feel any oestrogen withdrawal symptoms. For a woman my age I feel the 2-250 is appropriate and less risky.

In one study, the median age of 100 women surveyed was 64.5 yrs, they had been on HRT for a mean duration of 17.65 years, the mean estradiol level was 921 pmol/L, with eight women having levels in excess of 1,500 pmol/L. No side-effects and the women felt well and quality of life was good.

In another study, 38 women aged 29-58 yrs old, with mean serum estradiol levels in excess of 2,000 pmol/L, up to 2,925 pmol/L, on pellets for 4-5 yrs on average, did not experience any deleterious effects.

In another study, 6 women were aged 50 +/- 5 yrs, with average levels of estradiol ranging from 9,000 pmol/L-11,000 pmol/L. Treatment lasted 6-9 months. It was well tolerated, no adverse effects were observed and the women expressed a feeling of "particular well-being".

In another study, 66 women  with ADVANCED BREAST CANCER, aged 36-84 yrs old, on ORAL estradiol. Levels of estradiol anywhere from 1,000-8,000 pmol/L, for 6 months. Only 2 incidences of thrombosis and this is probably because the estrogen was taken ORALLY and they had cancer which further increases this risk.

In another study, men with prostate cancer, aged 49-91 yrs old, given estradiol in the form of several patches, reached average levels of 1,700 pmol/L, up 3,800 pmol/L. There were no thromboembolic complications. Other studies following a similar protocol found similar results.

A recent study stated that patches do not increase the risk of DVT and can be prescribed to populations at high risk including "(very) elderly people" and people who are obese or smokers.

The risk of prolactinoma is very low in the transsexual population and has never been observed with the use of bio-identical hormones. The risk of breast cancer does not increase in transsexual women.


Girls,

WHAT ABOUT GEL??? This is so much better than patches. I love it!

Quote from: KayXo on October 16, 2017, 09:53:03 AM

Girls,

WHAT ABOUT GEL??? This is so much better than patches. I love it!

Hi Kay

I hear what you are saying about the hormone levels and I have also been looking at this carefully. It is something I would like to discuss with my Dr but going by her previous attitude she would see this as arguing or "non -compliance" I know there are other methods of delivery but for some reason they have not been offered to me. I have been offered an implant or Patches. In my current case I have only been offered an implant.

I am seeing a new Dr on Thursday  before having to make a decision about my currents Dr's treatment. She has sent me a script for a mew implant but I am not sure I am happy to tolerate the "winding down" process she is insistent on each time it is replaced...(150 or lower before replacement)

Would love to know a bit more about your experience with gel?

Quote from: ElizabethK on October 16, 2017, 04:51:29 PMWould love to know a bit more about your experience with gel?

Since about 7-8 months, I've been applying it twice daily to different areas of my body (breasts, vulva, arms, buttocks, etc.). I enjoy applying gels/creams to my body, it's therapeutic LOL and it works...I'm happy with the effects so far, combined with the Androgel. Blood tests confirm it absorbs well.

What else do you want to know?

Quote from: KayXo on October 17, 2017, 10:43:01 AM
Since about 7-8 months, I've been applying it twice daily to different areas of my body (breasts, vulva, arms, buttocks, etc.). I enjoy applying gels/creams to my body, it's therapeutic LOL and it works...I'm happy with the effects so far, combined with the Androgel. Blood tests confirm it absorbs well.

What else do you want to know?

I have a T cream I use as I no longer produce any and it comes in a measured pump. Is that the same set up with the gels? Does it absorb nicely or leave a residue... This sounds like a great option for someone like me who has issues with Patches. Will ask my new Dr tomorrow and see if we can't get some to try. Thanks for answering my question.