So the subject says it all. I have no idea to how to handle what I just learned... apparently, my father, who is a psychiatrist, has for years been the area's specialist in transgender issues. He doesn't advertise it (his only listed specialty anywhere I've seen is schizophrenia) and he has never mentioned it, but according my step-mother, he is always the de facto choice in the various hospitals and clinics they work with to handle transgender patients.

I'll go over how I found this out real quick for context... My sister had an incident when she was very little, where someone convinced her she could be a "hermaphrodite"(really intersex) and not know it. This terrified her, and so she came home crying asking if she was really a boy or something along those lines (I wasn't there, so this is second hand). It became a reoccurring thing with her for a while, and now she sort of throws back to it jokingly to mess with her mom(my step mother). This triggered the transgender subject, which led around to her doing this faux whining regarding our dad not loving her if she were really a boy (the entire original routine about being intersex was completely turned on its head at this point), to which my step mother replied the bit about it being one of my dad's specialties, (my step mother has a hard time telling when people are serious, which my sister was not). Anyway, this is getting confusing even to me and I was there, so suffice to say that a little bit later I asked more about that statement as if I were just curious, and she said that he has been handling the issue since the early 90s when no one else would.

This information has me all over the place, and I don't know what to do with it. I don't know if it is good or bad for me (I worried already he would have experiences of worst case scenarios that I didn't want him to conflate with my situation). I don't know what I feel about the fact he knows my history as a child and never did or said anything to me about it (even before this revelation I've always been a little bitter he is supposedly a great psychiatrist but failed miserably when it came to a number of familial things that he should have recognized).

And the timing... Jesus, the timing. I can't help but wonder, is it because of me? Because that seems pretty freakin' coincidental that he starts volunteering to treat transgender patients when no one else will, well before it started to enter the mainstream, right as I began to ask questions about sex changes and getting caught crossdressing. I'm particularly wondering this in light of the fact that he has never once brought it up. He has talked about treating bipolar and schizophrenic patients non freaking stop, but this is never a topic? Even when something big is in the news, he's silent about it. I'm this bizarre mixture of relieved, worried, angry, scared, and outright resentful.

Actually the parts seem to be falling in place. Ever wonder why your father knows your therapist or the one you were considering. It's because several surgeries require two letters from separate doctors. It appears that your father was one of the two letters.

It does make coming out much easer. All you need to do is say you heard he treats transgender patients. When he responds yes, you just raise your hand and give him a minute to process it. The look on his face should be interesting to say the least.

Quote from: Dena on October 14, 2017, 08:19:45 PM
Actually the parts seem to be falling in place. Ever wonder why your father knows your therapist or the one you were considering. It's because several surgeries require two letters from separate doctors. It appears that your father was one of the two letters.

It does make coming out much easer. All you need to do is say you heard he treats transgender patients. When he responds yes, you just raise your hand and give him a minute to process it. The look on his face should be interesting to say the least.

Oh, he doesn't actually know my gender therapist, it was that I was avoiding local therapists because I know he would have known them(and that's just awkward for me, always has been). That was just an unfortunate reality of being in a small area, where all of the doctors know each other. They all go to the same Christmas parties, all of their kids are in the same school, etc. (Plus he was medical director at one major area provider for a while, which is a position that required familiarity with everyone.)

I'm also not entirely sure what his role would have been in recent years, as it sounded more like that he was the one who would handle transgender patients "after the fact"(ie: those well past the diagnosis phase) when something happened, such as severe depression and suicide attempts (he has been working mostly in crisis center type situations as opposed to regular practice for a while now). Maybe that includes meeting questioning people as well in those circumstances, and perhaps he sent them down their path to transition, but I just don't know.

Ultimately my issue here is that I definitely have some serious baggage when it comes to my father and my own problems as a kid, which is clouding how I am feeling about this for sure. A degree of resentment and frustration is something that I and my younger brother have often talked about, as he royally botched handling some fairly straightforward problems with family. And it really bothers me that it might extend to this issue, which has crippled me for so long. I know that many in the field notoriously have blinders on when it comes to themselves and family (part of the whole doctors make the worst patients cliche), but that is easy to tell myself and hard to just accept... Particularly as it was always beyond frustrating to have so many of my and my brother's issues neglected or improperly handled, while at the same time people walk up and tell us how much he helped them. (Which despite mental health being such a "don't ever speak about it" subject, having people freely tell me they saw him is incredibly common. Which in general... not something you talk about to a kid regardless of the circumstance.)

One thing is for sure, I am going to double down on "proving it" to him approach when coming. I was expecting casual knowledge, but if he truly has a lot of experience in the area I don't want him to turn around and use some experience that doesn't line up with mine to deny what I'm saying because of his own willful blindness.

Intellectually this seems like it would be a win, but emotionally it just feels messy.

If a child is expressing transgender feelings, or even showing symptoms that may point to them being transgender, it would not be wise for a parent or a psychologist to put words in their mouth. It is better for the child to express for themselves how they feel and for the adult to ask the child to elaborate. But if the adult leads with questions like "Are you transgender?" or "Do you feel like a girl inside?" this runs the risk of planting ideas in an impressionable mind that were not there before and can lead to future distress.

If your father was aware of your condition in the past, then he probably didn't take action because he was waiting for you to voice your feelings first. That's just a guess, though. I think it's a good thing that he already has some involvement in the community. This could make coming out to him much easier. But there does come that added anxiety of "is he going to think that I don't fit the mold?" Well, you already have one professional backing you, and I'm sure your father has come across a wide variety of cases, and I'm sure there were a few that were similar to your own. I say take it as a blessing.

Quote from: Allie24 on October 14, 2017, 11:55:06 PM
If your father was aware of your condition in the past, then he probably didn't take action because he was waiting for you to voice your feelings first.

I considered this, and it might very well be true, but I am still plagued by doubt because of how he handled other issues. (I had typed something really long elaborating, but realized it's late and I need to force myself to stop dwelling on this if I hope to get some sleep.  )

Quote from: Allie24 on October 14, 2017, 11:55:06 PM
If a child is expressing transgender feelings, or even showing symptoms that may point to them being transgender, it would not be wise for a parent or a psychologist to put words in their mouth. It is better for the child to express for themselves how they feel and for the adult to ask the child to elaborate. But if the adult leads with questions like "Are you transgender?" or "Do you feel like a girl inside?" this runs the risk of planting ideas in an impressionable mind that were not there before and can lead to future distress.

If your father was aware of your condition in the past, then he probably didn't take action because he was waiting for you to voice your feelings first. That's just a guess, though. I think it's a good thing that he already has some involvement in the community. This could make coming out to him much easier. But there does come that added anxiety of "is he going to think that I don't fit the mold?" Well, you already have one professional backing you, and I'm sure your father has come across a wide variety of cases, and I'm sure there were a few that were similar to your own. I say take it as a blessing.

    In fact he may well be legally prohibited from bringing it up to you as he is a licensed psychiatrist, especially being your parent, according to WPATH-SOC Section IV (the standards of care for trans) depending on your State's interpretation and policies regarding it. This seems like the most likely reason that he never spoke to you about it, but as a therapist, recognized your general questions and demeanor and knew his child was transgender. Being a good parent, did what he could and helped others like you, waiting for you to make a declaration to him. If this is the case, cut the guy some slack. He at least seems very supportive of the issue as a whole, just mum on it directly when it concerns you. You're going to want him to trust you that what you say is your absolute truth, so you need to extend the olive branch of trust and have some faith in him as well. Wait until he's had a chance to react to a direct declaration of your transgender status from your own mouth before you judge him. I know it's hard to do emotionally, but it's in both of your best interests. Stay Safe and Good Luck.

HUGS!

Quote from: Allie24 on October 14, 2017, 11:55:06 PM
If a child is expressing transgender feelings, or even showing symptoms that may point to them being transgender, it would not be wise for a parent or a psychologist to put words in their mouth. It is better for the child to express for themselves how they feel and for the adult to ask the child to elaborate. But if the adult leads with questions like "Are you transgender?" or "Do you feel like a girl inside?" this runs the risk of planting ideas in an impressionable mind that were not there before and can lead to future distress

This was absolutely true in my case.

I couldn't have been more of a girl if I tried when I was a kid but nobody, including any of the doctors I'd been taken to from the time I was 10 years old would dare suggest such a thing for fear of opening up a can of worms they didn't know how to do anything about. Of course we didn't have words like transgender back then or really language to describe it but at 15 when I told my mother I was a girl and always had been, her exact words were "we've always known who you are but were just waiting to hear it from you first".

I was pretty angry and resentful about this. Here was something I had struggled with to not talk about for years fearing my folks would think I was nuts and they had "always known"? Damn!

Once we were all on the same page. things got better and I was able to start making baby steps which was pretty radical in 1970. This pacified me for a while because I was doing something and then when I was 17, I was able to start HRT and the rest is history.

My mom had said they had dropped hints before that but I was too dense to pick up on them at the time and thought they were just teasing me for being too girly. They often said stuff like "you're going to make someone a good housewife one of these days" and if I had only stopped and said something like "yeah, I know", we probably would have talked about it sooner but there really wasn't anything that could be done about it anyway as nothing was known about trans youth or that even such a thing was possible. "Probably gay" was the only things doctors said or knew but thankfully, things are better recognized today.

Once I broke the ice and opened the door, it did allow me to walk through it. Had they not finally "heard it from me first, who knows how long it would have taken? I thought things were pretty obvious but it didn't become real for them until I said it.

Quote from: Lisa_K on October 15, 2017, 02:24:18 AM

I was pretty angry and resentful about this. Here was something I had struggled with to not talk about for years fearing my folks would think I was nuts and they had "always known"? Damn!

Not to seem like I am taking this out of context of the whole post, but this is exactly what bothers me. Particularly since that in my case it led to more than a decade of being a shut-in, and if it turns out he did suspect or know (which is quite possible he didn't, as familial blinders can be quite strong) then it just really, truly bothers me that I was left twisting in the wind for so long without even a "you should see a therapist".

Which plays into something I deleted from my previous post, in that he actively resisted me and my brother receiving proper treatment at times. I think this would be simple if I had witnessed a pattern of non-interference, but it really was the opposite. He intervened constantly, just in the wrong way 9 out of 10 times. Knowing him, it's partly because he is one of those people who feels he should be able to handle everything himself. My mother put too much faith in him on this, and later said she regretted it immensely dealing with me and my brother when we were young. To the point that her being fed up with what he was doing in this regard and challenging him on it was part of what led to their divorce. (My step mother on the other hand is far more dominant to begin with, and particularly since she is a psychiatrist as well, has taken the opposite approach with my sister fortunately, and had her in treatment for problems like ADHD despite his objections. It's a true personality flaw with him that pretty much anyone easily play amateur psychiatrist themselves with and trace back to his own childhood.)

And all of this is why I didn't trust psychiatrists and therapists for 20 something years. Sort of one of those things it is not fun to see behind the curtain on.

(I also don't want to sound like I'm being overly negative about my father. Overwhelmingly, he is pretty great. It was mostly just this area of reconciling his professional and personal lives that things get messy. It's just unfortunate that it is this very intersection of personal and professional that I find myself in once again.)

Anyway, I'm actually fine after sleeping on it for the most part. I've pretty much resigned myself to the idea that ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Whether or not I knew of his professional experience doesn't change the fact that it is his professional experience, and would have been even had I never known. So I'm pretty much just going to follow my original plan in dealing with coming out to him. I think I mostly am just hung up on the fact that is going to be my single biggest decisive point that dictates how everything else goes, and as I feel that everything is riding on it I am terrified and making it more complicated than it needs to be. Plays directly into my fears over financial concerns (not just with transition, but... you know, eating and having a roof over my head), developing a local support system, and more.

Ellie,

First off big hugs!  I had a really good friend in school whose father was psychologist.  He and most of his siblings were incredibly messed up.  His father was atrocious at family affairs, though supposedly good at his job.  I never cared for his father and have no reason to sugar coat my opinion of him.  The man was incredibly narcissistic and played a very strong hand in his children's (particularly the eldest, my friend) problems.  I can see a lot of parallel here.

Just because he deals primarily with trans individuals does not mean he suspects for you or will be accepting at all.  Many times it seems things like this are different when they happen in family.  Maybe he does know and maybe he will accept you, maybe not.  I feel it to be prudent to plan for the worst.  Work on your financial situation and ability to survive worst case. That way no matter the result you are covered.  If you were wrong and he does accept you then that is gravy.  I think your on the right track in how you are approaching this.

Fwiw, I waited significantly longer to tell my father than anyone else.  My father happens to be my neighbor and we were leaning on him financially a bit at the time.  I didn't come out to him until a year after everyone else and 9 months after being on hormones (he is practically a recluse so seeing him wasn't that often of a concern).  I correctly gauged his non-acceptance.  While it's not like he cut contact or even argued about it, it has not been pleasant.  I am absolutely sure that if we were still financially dependent upon him that he would use that as leverage to get his way.  This has been his modus operandi for years.

I am sorry you have had a rough time and are driving yourself nuts over this new information.  I hope things work out well for you. 

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I think everyone here has already said everything I was going to. I will add one thing, about the 'blinders' when it comes to family. He may have compassion for his patients, but he doesn't have an emotional attachment to them. Family is entirely different - it's very difficult to view a person's situation from outside when you're already on the inside. That emotional attachment makes it nearly impossible for him to see the situation objectively.
As for not saying anything, the others are right. He couldn't for all the reasons they said. My step-mother suspected since I was 15 that I was gay, but never did say anything. Maybe if she had I might have been able to work some things out sooner, or maybe I wouldn't have listened & just denied it like everything else (I was fairly rebellious as a teen - mainly just being contrary as possible to adults).

Unfortunately we can't change the past. We can't live by could-haves, should-haves, or would-haves, either for our own choices or actions, or for others. All we can do is try to live the best we can now & for our future.
I hope this works out for the best (I think it will - fingers crossed for you!!).

::HUGS!!::

I just read the responses, dang I got to quit replying before reading the whole thread.

I dont know. I dont know your family. It's probably safest to continue as you've chosen. Caution is rational. I'm just leaving these words below in case someone else has a similar experience without the larger arcing issues of home/professional blurring of line.

I went to school with the intent of being an LCSW, some familial things came up and I ended up having to take some time of from it for awhile. All I can add is that it is considered unethical to treat people who have close interpersonal relationships with. Youre not supposed to bring any analysis to bear on them. You can use the experience and education you have to navigate relationships. To be a critical thinker, compassionate, thoughtful, and listening, but actual analysis of close family members is considered a kind of crime and frankly any mental health professional will well know and understand the very precarious and dangerous pitfulls of not respecting those rules/oaths. It's nearly impossible to achieve what's needed let alone distance yourself from people you love and/or care for when attempting to consider them as a mental health professional.

I don't know your dads influences in the field, and there are many, but most in these fields believe its important to let children discover and explore and when they are ready, and not before, help them navigate. Unless of course its obvious they are a dnager to themselves or others. I'm just spit balling there.

I wonder if you could call his office person from an off number and inquire if he is considered LGBT affirming? If so, I dont see how you would have much to worry about, but... thats just my opinion alone.

Thank you everyone for the replies! It has helped me immensely to reorient myself on this, and talk my self down from worst case scenarios. <3

Quote from: amberwaves on October 15, 2017, 09:42:26 AM
  I had a really good friend in school whose father was psychologist.  He and most of his siblings were incredibly messed up.  His father was atrocious at family affairs, though supposedly good at his job.  I never cared for his father and have no reason to sugar coat my opinion of him.  The man was incredibly narcissistic and played a very strong hand in his children's (particularly the eldest, my friend) problems.  I can see a lot of parallel here.

I will say that I don't foresee any overtly negative reaction from him, he's just not built that way. It's the internalizing that worries me more in that regard. He has always been one of those doctors who is, if anything, overly empathetic and I'm surprised it hasn't come back to haunt him. It makes him at least appear to be a good listener, which I suppose a lot of times is what people need, but at the same time I know he has a bad habit of playing to people unconsciously, telling them what they want to hear, even when his internal opinion is in direct opposition to what is coming out of his mouth. He lives in a state of cognitive dissonance that has been a source of both amusement and consternation. But ultimately, he means well, and fortunately he is not one of the narcissists (who I know all too well are far too common in the field).

Quote from: katiekatt on October 15, 2017, 01:11:22 PM

I wonder if you could call his office person from an off number and inquire if he is considered LGBT affirming? If so, I dont see how you would have much to worry about, but... thats just my opinion alone.

Unfortunately the current logistics of how he is practicing preclude that. For the past decade or so, he and my step mother have primarily been contractors with the state and larger hospitals, providing psychiatric nurse practitioner staffing with their oversight. They don't have an office or clerical staff, and basically just deal with patients in psych wards and other extreme situations while occasionally signing off on some med checks. In other words, he sees everything at its worst.

Which is one of my true fears, and was even before learning he had more experience on the issue than I imagined, in that I don't want him to conflate me with what he may have encountered professionally, because it is important to me that I make the distinction I am acting out of improving, not deteriorating, health, if for no other reason than to separate this from my previous years of acting based on illness. I guess also that I very much want to embrace this as a positive thing, and not treat it as though it is a disease to be cured.

I'll share that my mum was a career social worker,  and saw all kinds of different mental health issues,  anxiety,  depression and personality disorders (I don't clasify being Trans* as any of these btw). But until the age of 38 when I told her,  she didn't have a clue about me.
This was also in a time when being Trans* was viewed and understood very differently,  even by health professionals.

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Quote from: Lisa_K on October 15, 2017, 02:24:18 AM
....we didn't have words like transgender back then or really language to describe it but at 15 when I told my mother I was a girl and always had been, her exact words were "we've always known who you are but were just waiting to hear it from you first".

Again the parallels here are eerily similar. ....yet different.  I first told my mom when l was in kindergarten. This was in the very early 50's. Needless to say this must have shocking.  Nothing was ever said after that until a few years later when my behavior caused me to be taken to the "specialists" of that era. In my neck of the woods, that was Stoeller and Green. Their opinion was that l would either grow up gay or the "condition" would just pass away.
Neither turned out to be the case. Years later, having finally realized there was no escaping my reality, l told my Mother that having thoroughly explored all my available options,  and having exhaustively and thoughtfully weighed them, that l would have to undergo a sex-change,  her words, (which l will never forget), were that she didn't really undersstand, but that she loved me and would support me no matter what. I was 19 at the time. She was there for me 3 years later to save my life as l bled out after my srs.
My point here is that our life is ours to live. It is up to us, no one else to understand our own needs and then address them as needed. It is nobody else's responsibility but our own.
If things get screwed up, l do not see that as the fault of our parents or society.

Just a thought, have you thought about talking to your step-mom about this?  She may be able to give you some ideas on how to approach this.  She may also have some incite into what's going on in your father's mind.

Or maybe ask your mom, she may have some knowledge about family history and your dad that could be useful?

Good luck,
Paige

I see this as a good thing.

And you shouldn't hold any grudges against him for not "noticing" your signs or saying anything about it. First of all, it's highly unethical to treat your own family and being a psychiatrist/psychologist is like any other job, you leave work at the office once you go home. There's a chance he didn't know, and if he did and didn't say anything about it, maybe he's waiting for you to say it. In any case, the good thing is that he can connect you with people and help you if needed.

Wow, that's a big bombshell to add on top of everything else. I'm sorry to hear about what you had to go through as a kid, it's easy to see why you would harbor some resentment. Is it possible that your father saw the signs and tried to overcompensate in the other direction out of fear that he was projecting his work with trans people onto his family? Well, anyway, I won't say you should try and ignore or put aside the past, but the most important thing right now is making the best of your future. I hope everything works out for the best when you decide to come out to him!

And don't forget, even if I can't offer anything useful, I'm still cheering for you!

Quote from: Paige on October 15, 2017, 05:26:18 PM
Just a thought, have you thought about talking to your step-mom about this?  She may be able to give you some ideas on how to approach this.  She may also have some incite into what's going on in your father's mind.

Or maybe ask your mom, she may have some knowledge about family history and your dad that could be useful?

Good luck,
Paige

My step-mom is... uhhh, let's just say complicated.

Unfortunately, my mother passed away a few years ago. It was actually the big catalyst for where I am today. If she were still here, and I had somehow reached this same point, she would have known pretty much immediately after I did and this would all be moot.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on October 15, 2017, 07:52:42 PM
And you shouldn't hold any grudges against him for not "noticing" your signs or saying anything about it.

Unfortunately this has always been one of those things that I know intellectually, but it's still been hard to accept emotionally. It also plays in heavily with a whole mess of other stuff I haven't gone into here, since it is tangential to the transgender issues.

Though I should say despite my whining, I do actually hold myself responsible for my own actions and inaction. Plenty of people had common issues with what I've mentioned and what I haven't (it seems to be extremely common with children of people who are in professions that deal with treating or helping others, as it can often feel like it is at the expense of family). Yet for the most part, they deal with it and don't wind up like I did. That I let happen to myself.

Quote from: Custard Squirrel on October 15, 2017, 11:40:37 PM
Wow, that's a big bombshell to add on top of everything else. I'm sorry to hear about what you had to go through as a kid, it's easy to see why you would harbor some resentment.

I do want to say that I don't want to sound like I'm saying I had a terrible childhood and everything bad is because of it, etc.. There were issues, sure, but nothing that the majority of this forum haven't gone through as well. Maybe the anxiety disorder hit me harder than many with the agoraphobia angle, and the way things were handled at times was atrocious, but that pales in comparison to what some people here have gone through. Any lingering resentment (which is perhaps too strong of a word anyway) is more circumstantial than a matter of severity for the most part I guess is what I'm saying.

QuoteIs it possible that your father saw the signs and tried to overcompensate in the other direction out of fear that he was projecting his work with trans people onto his family?

All else aside, I really want to find out if that is the case just for shear curiosity reasons.

Quote
And don't forget, even if I can't offer anything useful, I'm still cheering for you!

Every post is useful, even if for no other reason than it shows people care and are listening, no matter how petty my issue may be in the scheme of things!

Roll,

    I'm right there with you when it comes to trying to let go of strong feelings of resentment. I originally came out to my Dad 12 years ago, during my first transition attempt. I had shoulder length hair and a small B cup back then. His frequent response, which remained unchanged until this past August, was that it's all "Just A Phase." The only reason it took me that long in the first place was his Socio-Politic Views, (he's a right wing conservative christian republican.) He was verbally and mildly physically abusive, growing up, not to mention being so controlling and temperamental that when talking to me or my Brother, other members of the church would refer to him as Hitler. So there's that underlying issue as well. Temporarily De-Transitioning to go back in the Army for financial reasons didn't help him take me seriously either.

   Me telling him the first time that I've known since I was 4 (I'm 37 now) didn't matter. I guess to him "Just a Phase" can last the entirety of someones life? Consciously I realize it was just a long term severe form of denial. It's taken me 12 years and giving him a lot of medical research papers, along with numerous diagnosis of gender dysphoria from various therapists to get him to come around.

   As he's now accepting the reality of the situation, if not his moral agreement or lack thereof, I'm willing to let bygones be bygones. Not taking me seriously for over a decade still hurts though. At least now with the whole transgenders and gays in the military issue, he's looking at the problem realistically. (He's a retired Air Force Major.) He's developed some severe chronic and occasionally life-threatening health issues in the last couple of years that may have taken part in his mellowing out. I know its gonna be a few years before we can really be around each other comfortably, if ever, and then mostly for the sake of our kids. As long as he keeps trying to come to terms with it, now that all cards are on the table, I won't hold his past blindness or lack of acceptance against him. Life's too short for that. Hopefully my tale of woe has comforted you in the very least by any parallels with your life. Stay Safe and Strong.

HUGS!

Hi Roll, or is it Ellie?  I am so bad with names and faces;)

I had to come to terms with a similar thing.  My parents knew and DID say something to me when I was really young.  I denied it, internalized my feelings and tried to not be trans after that for decades.  for a while i was actually torn about shouldering only some of the blame for the length of my struggle.  It took me a long time to accept all of it.  Our close relatives don't want us to feel pain.  Nor do I want to give them any by thinking they hadn't done enough.  I've got a section in my coming out letter saying the struggle length and severity is entirely my fault.  Even if they had an incling about me, I'd not have been able to deal with it until recently citing lack of maturity nor internal tools I needed to accept myself.

I'm not sure if you can relate to that, we are all on an individual path.  I'm just sharing a part of my struggle that I had to overcome just to fully accept who I am.

Maybe helps, maybe not, but hugs nonetheless.

Bari Jo