Hey everyone. I am making this post to talk about both bullying and shame. I will admit, though I too have been bullied and merciless so I have also dished it out. Most people seem to bully for power and indeed many seem to be narcissistic about their ego. I bullied too for power, but not in a narcissitic way. I had almost no self esteem at all, and often I just parroted action I have either seen or had done to me towards other. I feel awful about it. Yes, I was that person. The one who used to talk bad abouts gays and trans , especially in high school  and especially in the 10th grade for whatever reason. I used recall never coming face to face and bullying LGBT people, but would often talk smack amongst my peers and did ridcule and humiiate a boy my age (who is indeed male) for being feminine. I recall I used to senselessly make fun of him for a long period of time for wearing lulu lemon clothing (There was a hint of jealousy there). I was especially transphobic, and this intesified as my feelings of longing to live as a woman did too.

Sadly, as I said about inseceuites I was full of them, and relating to LGBT and spitting my then venom at anyone there was not the only source of denial (?).

I also recall as a kid I was super ashamed of myself. I wanted to be very smart, sadly I wasnt. In early 2005 I was palced in this place called Queen Alexadria for studying my brain. Recall that post I made about my IQ saying I was borderline retarded? well, i can say with safety I am not BR.. but I probably am still rather slow I guess. And the same happened in Grade 5/2005. I always deep down wanted to be smart, but for what ever reason it was hard for me to concentrate an take in info. Not diagnoses at that time was me being somewhere on the autism spectrum disorder (diagnosed in 2009), and it seemed that another diagnosis that was somewhere later thought of wasnt talked about being ADHD among others. I thought I was stupid, and in grade 5 tests said I was as smart as a 2nd grader with the same behaviors of a 2nd grader. I was crushed, and hated myself and thought I was an embarrsement.  I recall growing up not having good grades at all, and having other family members being comparred (the smart ones of course) towards myself. I resented being the stupid one. As a result, I was a bully again to kids with special needs. Though this was largely before high school, i did the exact same thing. Again, with great shame and wishing I could have been a friend or what not. Instead, I was too busy thinking of myself and thinking of how to get the next cheapest laugh from any peers.

I know how i required a coward reputation. One I have largely put to rest as many are telling me how happy, peaceful and stronger i have become since doing more of the hard work. But the thing is, this isnt about me. This is/was about my actions and how much I really wish I was a better kid and young adult. I dont know if any of you have had a similar experience but It weighs on me. I wish I could do everything right. In addition to wishing I was born female, I also wish I used my compassion I always had instead of turning it into putting down others and ignoring real feelings of empathy, I wish I could have been a friend and not a foe. I just wish I wasnt such a tool. I am a changed girl, but the cowardliness I once shared to the world still blows the good I try to do.

Thanks for reading.

A lot of us have been there... I didn't know at that time why I enjoyed making fun of some of my schoolmates. It made me feel I belonged to the guys group, but now I can see a clear pattern in my actions. I made fun of the school's lesbians, that girl that didn't look like a girl, the effeminate guys, the goth chick, and pretty much anyone that didn't act normal.
It was like I subconsiously hated everything I wanted to be, how I felt deep inside. I remember one particular girl, that used to be a friend of mine in the early school years. She was different. She dressed different, she acted different. I wish I could have expressed myself as she had, but instead of being nice to her so we could be friends and do things together, I ended up making fun of her with the rest of the guys. Now I just want to meet her again, give her a big hug and ask her to forgive me.

Quote from: Lady Lisandra on October 23, 2017, 05:34:41 PM
A lot of us have been there... I didn't know at that time why I enjoyed making fun of some of my schoolmates. It made me feel I belonged to the guys group, but now I can see a clear pattern in my actions. I made fun of the school's lesbians, that girl that didn't look like a girl, the effeminate guys, the goth chick, and pretty much anyone that didn't act normal.
It was like I subconsiously hated everything I wanted to be, how I felt deep inside. I remember one particular girl, that used to be a friend of mine in the early school years. She was different. She dressed different, she acted different. I wish I could have expressed myself as she had, but instead of being nice to her so we could be friends and do things together, I ended up making fun of her with the rest of the guys. Now I just want to meet her again, give her a big hug and ask her to forgive me.

Thank you for the non judgemental reply Lady!, as much as I would love to say ''well atleast I was not alone '' I cant. I messed up, and you admitted to making the same mistakes. It is just awful what we did to fit in. I was such a senstive child, I would cry at the drop of a hat.. probably actually have at one point lol. Then I guess rage, trying to fit in, disassociating from everything I wanted all kicked in.

I mean those are just extreme forms of my cowardliness and stuff. I recall around grade 6 or grade 7 some of my friends thought playing Nintendo was for ''kids'' and was lame, so I developed a hate of those games.. yet I loved them and played them closetly... yup, everything I told ya. Cuz I had now spin :/

Glad you are getting better Lady <3

Judging you is the last thing I'm going to do. We both were bullies, but we didn't do it because we were evil. It was just a wall, trying to contain something terrible happening to us. But now we have the chance to make up for it. We can be better persons, and most important, we realize we did wrong and we're not proud of it. In my case, if I'm lucky I'll get the chance to ask for pardon.

It's important to remember something: You were a kid, too. Even in High School, despite the "young adult" rhetoric, you were still a kid, as we all were. it is important that as an adult, you learned from those mistakes and forgive yourself. Not forget, and certainly apologize if given a chance, but forgive yourself nonetheless.

I never suffered the degree of bullying many here have talked about by any stretch of the imagination (I retreated into agoraphobia before I really risked it), but i was definitely a target, so I say this from that perspective... If those who were at any time mean or cruel to me as children are genuinely sorry for their actions, then I forgive them no questions asked, and do not even require them to seek amends. The majority of people, bullies or bullied alike, have their cross to bear and by the fact you are here today you have both shown this to be the case. In the case of those who were targets, their own path to maturity requires understanding of this, and not holding grudges.

(Now for those who are just genuinely mean people acting out of sociopathic tendencies with no remorse... screw 'em.)

I didn't suffer from, or perform, any bullying.  I had kids make fun of the way I walked, but that's another story.  The closest to being bullied I came was when my, now, nephew in law; said he was going to beat me up if I sat at his table for lunch again.  I won't back down when threatened.  I snatched the poor buggers throat, and squeezed.  His neck was slick with sweat.  He was just as afraid of fighting me as I was of him.  Neither he, nor his friends, showed up for the "fight" the next day.  Apparently word got around that I wasn't a push over; everyone stopped making fun of my walk, and avoided threatening me with fights.  Not bad for the fat nerd who walked like a girl.

Funny thing, he still won't come near me.  Maybe I am a bully.

Good for you Sailor for coming to terms with your past.  I'm still finding nuggets of my past that I'm ashamed of as well.  BTW, I was an obnoxious jerk in high school.  I was popular, but I think it was because I was collectively disliked.  Coming to terms with myself and doing this transition almost feels like a do over.  I try to always be nice and respectful now, even sweet.  With the hrt working, it feels right.  I may not be able to make amends to the kids in high school, but I am forgiving myself.  Time for you to do the same:)

Bari Jo

Quote from: Bari Jo on October 23, 2017, 11:01:42 PM
Good for you Sailor for coming to terms with your past.  I'm still finding nuggets of my past that I'm ashamed of as well.  BTW, I was an obnoxious jerk in high school.  I was popular, but I think it was because I was collectively disliked.  Coming to terms with myself and doing this transition almost feels like a do over.  I try to always be nice and respectful now, even sweet.  With the hrt working, it feels right.  I may not be able to make amends to the kids in high school, but I am forgiving myself.  Time for you to do the same:)

Bari Jo

A girl from high school came to me about five years ago and apologized for being mean to me.  To be honest, I never felt she was mean, but then, I had a crush on her.  It felt pretty good to receive the apology though.  I don't know why.

I was that person, that found a corner to hide, that ate lunch alone, that found getting across campus was difficult, and dangerous.

I'm proud of you for the amount you've grown, and you should be too.

The past has gone, we can only make the future better.

Rowan

I was such a prime target for bullies that there's no way I could NOT have been bullied. Small, albino and feminine, no way I wasn't going to be mistreated in school. At the time I could have happily watched some of the people who messed with me be torn apart by wild dogs. But thinking about it now I realize everyone has issues and kids can be cruel. Now when I look back I wonder what issues the people who bullied me had going on in their life that made them act out. There were different levels of being "different" in high school. I was pretty far down but there was one person even lower. She was about 100 pounds overweight. EVERYONE made fun of her, especially other girls. I ate lunch with her everyday and everyone made it their business to see what she had on her lunch tray or what she brought from home and people would make bets on how many fattening foods she would have. There were others that were made fun of and bullied themselves but even they made fun of her. I never understood that. They knew how much it hurt to be made fun of yet they still made fun of her. I was never mean to anyone and I certainly wouldn't have made fun of anyone. High school is just an awful experience for most people and kids are mean. But highschool does end (thank god!)  I'm glad you felt bad for how you acted but I also understand why you did it. It's over and done so there's no need for you to continue feeling bad. You're a better person now.

Hi Sailor, thank you for your honesty and courage to talk about this.  Many of us have been on both sides of the bullying and shame spectrum.  And frankly I know that i have felt less than many times in my life, sometimes with help from other loving people who used my insecurity to build themselves up.  High school sucked in the 60's and from what I see working with many teens, high school is not wonderful today. 

Remember that teens are only slightly socialized animals seeking position in the "pack".   I love them but sometimes want to drown them--sometimes at the same time. 

The other thing that really struck me is just how much I hate diagnoses and the DSM.  Remember that a diagnosis is used for two things: 1. for the doctor/therapist to get paid; 2. supposedly to unify language and help assign the correct treatment (usually drugs) to a diagnosis. 

Unfortunately, it happens too often that the person is identified by the diagnosis and the person starts to identify with the diagnosis.  I hate this.

As for the diagnosis guiding treatment, this is often not the case.  In fact a diagnosis often causes even experienced therapists to treat the person as if they are the diagnosis.  For example in the 1960's there was a study where subjects were given a diagnosis at random and then placed in a treatment program.  Every behavior that they showed got recorded as a validation for the diagnosis and the treatment.  In one instance the facility was trying to have the individual committed and treated with electric shock.  I don't like diagnosis very much.

Back to You Sailor:  your writing is clear, lucid and thoughtful.  I think that all of those professionals were probably wrong about you.  I think that you were just an individual who need time to grow into your potential.  seems like you are doing just fine.

Thank you all for your replies and non-judgemental comments. Sometimes it is harder for one to forgive themselves then it is for others to forgive I guess? I just dono, like many of you have been on both sides of the fence, others here like Julia have been on only one side of fence and can still try to understand my issue. Thank you all.

I guess in hindsight it is still hard to swallow. I knew what it was like to be different, judged, hated, laughed at, bullied, picked on, hit, ect. Yet I did the same things. I did them because I didnt want to be the ''loser''. I hate that term, and in hindsight it turned out I was among the biggest losers. I cant make excuses for my actions, as I should have developed a spin and knew what it was like and helped the ones who couldt help themselves, not add to their pain. Not to excuse but I guess when you are being picked on for so long and you have some chance to escape you dont look at things through the lens of what is right, just or moral but rather develop the beleif of ''better them then me''. It wasnt right, but thats all i knew at the time.

I am different, but I wish I could do something to make it better. I at times was a real awful awful human.