Now I'm not saying that I agree with every policy the GOP supports, and there are issues that I'll side with Democrats on, but by and large, I consider myself a conservative and a Republican. People are usually shocked when they find out, like "but you're trans...you can't be a Republican."

The two-party system is extremely flawed, but it's what we've got for the time being, and typically we all have to "pick a side" when it comes to voting and such, and the majority of my views are conservative, so yeah...I am trans and I am a Republican. They're not mutually exclusive.

Am I the only one?

As an lgbtq person and ESPECIALLY as a black person I feel as though voting Republican is supporting politicians and Americans that absolutely hate me and see me as part of what's wrong with their country. However, you are 100% correct in saying the 2 party system royally sucks. I lean liberal socially but moderate and at times maybe conservative, fiscally and on global isssues. So I feel there is no home for me politically. Democrats take black people for granted and do nothing for us. The Republican party has a serious issue with pandering to white racism I feel. As a result I am independent and tend to vote for sensible dems when they can be found.

I'm not a heartless, close minded dick but I'm also not naive and entitled so nowhere to go lol!

I am an independent voter and I really support fiscal conservatives and social progressives.

Given the Democratic Party positions on several issues, I have voted Republican more often than not.

All this changed last November.

I found all candidates for President lacking in leadership qualities and none of them ever expressed a plan for the future that I could support. I live in Florida and if we do not mark any candidate for any office, someone can come in after me and mark my paper ballot with their candidate. So, I wrote in Mickey Mouse for President.

Quote from: Bacon on October 25, 2017, 06:14:07 PM"but you're trans...you can't be a Republican."

The idea someone's identity or medical condition is automatically to be tied to a particular political affiliation I find ridiculous.

Let me put this in general terms as I mean no disrespect  to you or anyone here. I could not belong to any group that works against my rights, does not believe in the legitimacy of who I am, or who looks the other way when people like me are hurt or murdered. This could be translated as a political party, religious group, friends or coworkers. I know what groups this refers to for me. You are certainly welcome to make judgements appropriate for you. I just hope you with your ideas and me with mine can exist together without hostility. We may actually agree on a whole lot more than we disagree on.
Moni
Please this is intended as an opinion not a provocation.

Quote from: Viktor on October 26, 2017, 08:06:09 PM
The idea someone's identity or medical condition is automatically to be tied to a particular political affiliation I find ridiculous.

As do I

You guys are not the only ones!!!! I consider myself a conservative and well I am trans as well. Not on the male side but, still consider myself conservative. I like some of you don't agree totally on everything that republicans put forth, but in the 2 party system you have to pick what fits best with your ideals. I like the democrats on other things. I am almost just considering myself politically fluid, LOL!!! I even like some stuff from like the green party or other minor parties that try and compete. I don't really think most people completely fit in one political box or another. They are too confining.

I am grateful there is more than one type of conservative. I watch the news, and enjoy seeing some of them ridicule Trump's ways and message. Not all of them hate the LGBTI community as bad as those close to Trump. I dare say that some liberals would gladly throw us under the bus. It largely depends on who me they cater to.

Quote from: HappyMoni on October 26, 2017, 08:28:17 PM
Let me put this in general terms as I mean no disrespect  to you or anyone here. I could not belong to any group that works against my rights, does not believe in the legitimacy of who I am, or who looks the other way when people like me are hurt or murdered. This could be translated as a political party, religious group, friends or coworkers. I know what groups this refers to for me. You are certainly welcome to make judgements appropriate for you. I just hope you with your ideas and me with mine can exist together without hostility. We may actually agree on a whole lot more than we disagree on.
Moni
Please this is intended as an opinion not a provocation.

This is what keeps me from supporting Republicans.

Might I ask of those that lean conservative what issues determine this for you? Purely just curiosity.

Cool to see I'm not the only trans person out there that has some conservative views.

As for what determines my conservatism, for me, it's actually more about the way I think and view the world than any specific individual policy issue (although I do tend to agree with Republicans on many policies). I typically find tons of holes and logical fallacies in the things that liberal people say, believe, etc. I also hate the dominant liberal narrative that everything is racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, and so on. Sure, some things are. But most things aren't, and it seems like the liberal mentality is to constantly be on the defense, to assume the worst about people, to victimize themselves, and to consider finding things to be offended about to be some kind of perverse hobby. I also hate how extreme political correctness has become, and the way liberals try to police people's speech and opinions.

Of course, not all liberals are like this, but I do believe that this behavior and way of thinking has almost completely overtaken the Democratic Party. It's really a shame. Certainly there are some Democratic policies and ideas that are sound, and I have no problem at all with a Democrat that has real, logical, well-thought-out, evidence-backed reasons for supporting one thing over another, but I rarely ever encounter a Democrat like that nowadays.

Seeing how I probably have more water passed under my bridge than most on this site, I have seen much change in primarily the Republican party over my life.  Just as a defining point, my first memory of "news" was when I was 7 and complained to my parents that the JFK assassination had knocked cartoons off the TV.  As I grew up I remember that the Republican party had a diverse set of opinions in it.  There were liberals in it. There were moderates.  Things were negotiated.  Compromises made.  Legislation happened with bipartisan support.  That was just normal way to govern.  Even after LBJ signed the civil rights ACTS with enough Republican support and said he probably had lost the Southern Democrats because of it, things held together as many Dems switched sides.  Nixon signed legislation to create the EPA.  But as a part of the southern strategy the Republican party had to demonize the Democrats to race-bait, gender bait, anti-union, traditional values embracing to separate as many people from their own self-interest to become cultural warriors. The strategy worked.  Now most of us decide party affiliation based on social issues while overlooking our own self interests.  Most of you are probably not aware of it and some will say I am crazy or worse but it is history. 
Now we have divided government that is horribly divided.  There is no compromise possible.  Little bipartisanship.  Thus no need for statesmanship or compromise.  Just carry on demonizing anyone that does not immediately agree with you on your opinion.  So there is no exchange of ideas to understand the other persons point of view.
While I have spent my life as what I considered a moderate liberal due to the conservative shift to a reactionary, hyperbolic, excessively patriotic party, I have no choice but to resist its manipulations.  Thus I guess I am just another libtard.  Not a big deal.  I try to talk to conservatives but the set of ideologies they bring to the discussion makes it hard to discuss things in a logical and factual environment.
Oh and if you disagree with me you are more than welcome to respond.  I wont be offended but please bring facts with you.  You know those pesky things that create truth and reality.

Quote from: JulieOnHerWay on October 26, 2017, 11:59:36 PMNow we have divided government that is horribly divided.  There is no compromise possible.  Little bipartisanship.  Thus no need for statesmanship or compromise.  Just carry on demonizing anyone that does not immediately agree with you on your opinion.  So there is no exchange of ideas to understand the other persons point of view.
While I have spent my life as what I considered a moderate liberal due to the conservative shift to a reactionary, hyperbolic, excessively patriotic party, I have no choice but to resist its manipulations.  Thus I guess I am just another libtard.  Not a big deal.  I try to talk to conservatives but the set of ideologies they bring to the discussion makes it hard to discuss things in a logical and factual environment.

Yep, I agree that our government is horribly and childishly divided. It's honestly ridiculous and embarrassing, and an enormous problem for both parties. There are reasonably attainable compromises on a great deal of issues, but very little gets done in a timely manner because people from both parties are too stubborn and hostile to each other to actually, you know, try to do that crazy thing called working together to craft bipartisan policies.

For a long time, and still, I consider myself a moderate, but like I said in my OP, since this flawed two-party system is the one we've currently got to work with, I consider myself a Republican if it comes down to it. I would much prefer that the whole system be dismantled, and that we could examine each candidate by their own individual sets of beliefs rather than force them into boxes by mentalities like: "If you're a Democrat/Republican, you have to view gun control THIS way, you have to view LGBT issues THIS way, you have to view the environment THIS way, etc" with barely any wiggle room for anyone that thinks differently than their party on any issue, or given set of issues.

But it's interesting that we have had parallel but completely opposite experiences when it comes to the two major parties. As a college student, 99% of the people I associate with are liberals, and I'm usually the lone conservative voice. Nonetheless, I'll regularly try to have calm, civil, respectful, logical discussions with them, because being able to have such discussions is the only way we're ever going to progress as a society. But the vast majority of the time, the liberals with whom I'm trying to have an open conversation bring nothing but emotion-based reasoning, hyperbole, pseudo-intellectualism, and lots and lots of hypocrisy to the table. On more than one occasion, I've had people that I thought were friends decide that--because we disagree about some issue, and they are not willing to even respectfully consider the reasoning for what I'm saying--they'll run away from the conversation altogether, "unfriend" me (if we're debating on Facebook), and generally treat me like ->-bleeped-<-.

The idea of "mutual respect" that is essential to having a productive conversation? I hardly ever see it. I always do my best to treat everyone, regardless of their beliefs, with respect and civility, but it's rare that I get the favor returned, and that's always disheartening. Maybe I just need to find different people to have these conversations with.

It sounds like you have had a similar experience with conservatives that you try to talk to. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that, if you're interested, you get to meet some conservatives (and I get to meet some liberals) that we can actually have  open-minded conversations with.

   I personally think this two party system as it is today is an exercise in stupidity. It does not really apply to anything as there are so many diverse and divisive factions within both parties that it is no longer valid in my mind.
   I am registered as a Democratic solely because they came to my door first when I started voting. I am seen as a liberal because of many of my personal views. I claim allegiance to none of it. Getting a "Party ballot" is ridiculous in my opinion. I would much rather have the freedom to vote for whomever or whatever I chose to based on what I agree with.
  That is all that I am willing to express here as I have very strong opinions that would  certainly violate our Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By should I get carried away relating them. Before I became a moderator I had everything the may tempt me to express those opinions blocked as insurance that I would not do so. Now I have to practice self control (which is not always easy) because now I need to read these triggering posts as part of the job. I ask that everyone do the same.

Hugs,
   Laurie

I am a conservative at heart and voted Republican in every election from Ronald Reagan to John McCain.  Now we no longer have a Conservative party to choose.  Instead we have either a Liberal party or a radical Christian Dominionist/Nationalist party whose economic policies have failed the people in every place where they have been tried and whose social and scientific policies are based on bigotry and mythology from the Bronze Age.  So bye to that.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: HappyMoni on October 26, 2017, 08:28:17 PM
Let me put this in general terms as I mean no disrespect  to you or anyone here. I could not belong to any group that works against my rights, does not believe in the legitimacy of who I am, or who looks the other way when people like me are hurt or murdered.

What's odd about that is I have lots of friends and some family in America who are Republican leaning, and none of them have an issue with me or other trans people. Several are far more sympathetic and sensitive to nuance than my left-leaning friends who tend to look at trans as some faceless block of people who are all equally oppressed, and if we don't agree that the trans issue is somewhat complicated in places then said disagreer is a Nazi by default whom we should punch. So when you say "group", I'm not sure whom you mean. It can't be these people, because experience is they're not people who delegitimize me or are happy to see me dead. The reason they lean Republican is largely because they are dissatisfied with the establishment, globalism and the like and they feel ID politics has gone so far that it is now fostering hate and division (not to mention is becoming increasingly authoritarian in terms of how it wants to be apply its view of "equity" in the near future). By no means are they a uniform block themselves who all have the exact same opinion and thought process as each other.

The politicians on the other hand, may be quite a different matter. But when it comes down to it, almost nobody agrees 100% with everything their "side's" politicians may say and do, but they are forced to generalize and pick a side regardless. If at least 3 long-term Republican friends of mine were in some brainless collective, they wouldn't openly be members open of the gay/T community and work in gay nightclubs, be my friend, or be open to discussion with me about all of these things. 

From what I gather of them, the state of the world in general, the future of their countries and stability within their countries is more important to them than their own personal safety as gay or trans people. Which I have to agree with even though I would not consider myself Republican. Without the maintenance of our cultural values, freedom and stability, good luck ever advancing the cause of people like ourselves very far. And our nations are currently facing a lot of very serious problems in the future. Even if some of these gay/T Republicans I know belong in our community, they are concerned with what's going on, and some of them are sick of being openly demonized and called privileged and racists when they are not or just want to have discourse about the problems.

Logically I have to agree that if our countries do not sort this mess out properly and soon, we trans people will not only lose what rights we have so far won, but the pendulum may well swing back hard the other way and we'll find ourselves persecuted by law and not just by bigots.

So in the end, if I had to choose between fighting for some trans rights immediately and right now, versus dealing with some of the other problems that are starting to rip the fabric of society apart, I'm afraid I lean towards the latter. Because if things really do go south and we do not allow an outlet for this concern and discourse on the right, and to find some balance between the concerns of those on both sides of the political spectrum, I do believe we may be staring totalitarianism in the face. That's why I have room to consider the concerns of those who are not necessarily approving of me or my trans rights. Because I still have to share space with them, and they are still a part of the mix. If they are demonized and marginalized too far, or if indeed the left believes it can secure equality by force (and becomes totalitarian in nature too), we will end up in a place none of us will want to be.

Hi Viktor,
   I will work with anyone who is reasonable, I don't have to  agree with them. I will not participate in my own demise though. My post was put in very general terms because any discussion of or near politics is very sensitive on Susan's. It is not the main focus here. I believe if you are liberal or conservative, you should not be made to feel uncomfortable here. (Not  saying you did.) To my meaning of 'group,' I would not belong to the Boy Scouts because I am atheist, I wouldn't belong to the Republican party because of their anti LGBTIQ platform and actions. I think this is a personal matter of conscience for me and is more complicated than just the trans issue.
   I had an experience a few years ago that emotional tore me up. I was at a family gathering, was tired, and lay down on the couch to rest. I was in earshot of a conversation in the next room. It was about politics, a president people despised, theories I knew to be false or distortions, and it had a marked racial tone. I really couldn't believe what I was hearing from my family, emphasis on the racial element. My first thought was that I did not want to associate with people who thought this way. I knew changing their attitude was folly. These people are my loved ones and I made a choice to continue things as normal, knowing that our attitudes were vastly different. Would I contribute to their conversation? No.
   I think it is a horrible thing, this cartoon image that has been created by some to further their interests. The cartoon image  of the bleeding heart liberal or the racist conservative, whatever the stereotype. We shouldn't be enemies, but these cartoon images are pushing us in that direction. When I grew up in the US, the enemy was the Soviet Union. Today, it's the neighbor across the street who views things differently. My only solution is to take one person at a time and judge them by their actions. Well, it's a goal anyway.
Moni
(Not intended to stir anything up)

I feel the same way - I don't like hearing people say things that are pointedly negative or hateful toward ourselves or certain other groups.

But as painful as it may be, it makes more sense to me that we understand it is dangerous to live completely in a bubble of thoughts and commentaries that we find pleasant. If we are hermetically sealed away, we have no idea what is going on outside of that, whether people really do agree with us or secretly have gall with us. The social barometer's real readings will be unknown to us unless we see everything that there is to see. And in that lies the danger. If we don't open up and share thoughts even with those who we find repellent, we could run the risk of walking head first into some catastrophic social change that was bubbling unseen beneath the surface.

That's why I must oppose the curtailing of free speech and support the protection of people's rights to say whatever they want - even hurtful things. If we close them off, suppress them and their speech, not only does it fuel their hate, but it lulls us into false security, makes everyone think everything is agreed with, approved of, everyone is content. When under the surface you could have murderous disapproval festering.

If you live in the US you're luckier than I to live somewhere that has a distrust of government and a Constitution that recognizes people's rights to freedom of speech. Here in Europe we trust too much in our establishments and governments not to oppress us, and once again they are beginning to do so, and it is embittering people en masse. But we do not have a Constitution to fight back with, that recognizes the freedom of the individual to speak and to disapprove of bad government policy or ideas.

I think this is what's happening at large at the moment... I remember 30 odd years back people could agree to disagree far easier than now, and what's changed in the meantime is that the social attitude has become more stifling of certain viewpoints, people are not allowed to have those viewpoints any more. Those people have got more and more bitter, and those who are on the "right" side of the social view (i.e. the political left at the moment) seem to have gotten less and less tolerant of free discourse and ever more self-righteous. I think it's very, very dangerous.

I wouldn't say the stereotypes are what is doing it - it's this suppression of being free to speak. Honestly I think stereotypes and bad words are a much easier price to pay than the sort of explosion of physical anger mass suppression is probably going to create. Hopefully it is not too late for us all to stop it.

Quote from: CMD042414 on October 26, 2017, 10:09:09 PM
Might I ask of those that lean conservative what issues determine this for you? Purely just curiosity.

I am a conservative Independent. I left the Republican party because of the globalists. Previously, I left the Democratic party because of the socialists. I believe in the Constitution as written. Jefferson said for any discussion of the Constitution, go back in time to when it was written, and take into account the discussions, etc. of the Founding Fathers.

1st Amendment. An individual right. Also a right to hear what others have to say. Blocking any speaker on a college campus is fascism.

2nd Amendment: It's always been an individual right. Of course, since we have atomic bombs, maybe "reasonable" controls is ok. But, don't touch my ability to defend my family or country.

Other Amendments I hold in similar views. I believe in low taxes, I believe in religious and personal freedom. I believe in a strong military. I believe in as little government control as possible.

Our country was built on Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian ideals but because of the Bill of Rights protection of individualism, we can have freedom for all. For myself that means God, Family, Country and mom, the flag, and apple pie. If I transition, I will continue to have the same values.

Let me also say, that my heroes include Socrates and Plato. I have an advanced degree which includes the study of the great philosophers. Debate and critical thought are the first things certain political factions try to control. Antifa is actually conducting itself like fascists, shutting down any thought that is not theirs. Ultimately, communists and fascists are one in the same. College campuses used to be places where you could say anything, feel anything, and debate anything. The ultimate exercise in thought!  That is gone now. Colleges are no longer free. Colleges no longer protect their legacy and their responsibility. It's a sad thing. Where is Socrates when you need him.

Yeah, yeah, I know, certain "conservatives" also do the same thing. To me, conservative is a label some use to further their agenda. Same thing with liberal. Mills, the father of American liberalism, viewed a world where everyone had a seat at the table, and a voice. If you call yourself a liberal and don't hold similar views, you are no liberal. If you call yourself a conservative, and don't believe in individual freedom, you are no conservative.