I think I may be finding my way into this camp.

...and I always thought the androgynes were the bat->-bleeped-<-s of the bunch, even lumped in with ->-bleeped-<-s. How can you be something besides a boy or a girl? I guess I'll find out.

Quote from: Autumn on February 25, 2008, 10:35:36 PM
I think I may be finding my way into this camp.

...and I always thought the androgynes were the bat->-bleeped-<-s of the bunch, even lumped in with ->-bleeped-<-s. How can you be something besides a boy or a girl? I guess I'll find out.

Welcome welcome, we've been awaiting for you.  heh heh heh

seriously,  I hope you're feeling okay and if you need to talk, feel free to PM me.  You may be just having a confused time, or you may be alighting upon the limb to which you belong.


I apologize for the attempt at sounding poetic.


Rebis

Quote from: Autumn on February 25, 2008, 10:35:36 PM
I think I may be finding my way into this camp.

...and I always thought the androgynes were the bat->-bleeped-<-s of the bunch, even lumped in with ->-bleeped-<-s. How can you be something besides a boy or a girl? I guess I'll find out.

We are the bat->-bleeped-<-s of the bunch!
(And for the reason you mention)

Regardless if you stay or not, welcome.

Hi Autumn
I wish I could say something that would be useful to you but I don't really care to get caught between a rock and a hard place. I thought I posted something earlier that you are welcome to pop me over a PM if you wish Autumn hon. You want to know what androgynes are about, Well, for one I have never met one yet that has said anything obnoxious or vindictive or negative in any way towards me or to anyone else that I am aware of since I been on this board. I am no expert on the subject of androgynes, I don't think anyone is, but I can Identify with many of their traits, thoughts, feelings and emotions. They are certainly the farthest from being bat->-bleeped-<-.

Cindy

Quote from: Simone Louise on February 25, 2008, 08:09:26 AM
I seem to remember you wrote about the finasteride effect once before, as have I. I am taking the 5 mg dose to shrink the prostate. I chuckle that, given the supposed rarity of breast growth, there should be 2 of us so affected in this forum.

Yes, that was me. Then again, we don't know how many people on this forum have taken the stuff without getting this effect: the number might still be nicely in the  <1% range as claimed. I'm certainly not complaining, though.

Quote from: NickSister on February 25, 2008, 03:07:35 PM
Interestingly Helen Boyds Husband Betty said that she is only taking an androgen blocker...

From what I've understood, that isn't necessarily such a good idea: long term, you'd need a sex hormone to keep bone density. Either one will do, but having none is likely to result in osteoporosis.

Quote from: Simone Louise on February 25, 2008, 06:24:42 PM
Finasteride is way down the list. Spironolactone and Cyproterone Acetate are most commonly used, though the latter can cause liver damage.

Finasteride and dutasteride aren't really general-purpose androgen blockers, though: they only prevent testosterone from changing into DHT (and so the excess T changes to oestrogen instead). Bones will be happy with just the T, and the effects on sexuality are much milder, but so is also the overall de-masculinising effect. DHT is necessary for the development of a male foetus, though, so keep the *asteride away from women who might be pregnant.

Quote from: Autumn on February 25, 2008, 10:35:36 PM
...and I always thought the androgynes were the bat->-bleeped-<-s of the bunch, even lumped in with ->-bleeped-<-s. How can you be something besides a boy or a girl? I guess I'll find out.

Yes, we are. And yes, there's only boys and girls, just like there's only light and dark (and I'm serious -- it is entirely reasonable to conceptualise the world this way). It's just that we are the bat->-bleeped-<-s who notice that the lighter shades of dark and the darker shades of light have more in common with each other than either has with pitch black or supernova-bright light. Whether you need a separate name for those batty shades is open to debate, although we do have opinions. 

Welcome, either for a short visit or a longer stay.

  Nfr

Quote from: Seshatneferw on February 26, 2008, 03:30:17 AM

Quote from: Autumn on February 25, 2008, 10:35:36 PM
...and I always thought the androgynes were the bat->-bleeped-<-s of the bunch, even lumped in with ->-bleeped-<-s. How can you be something besides a boy or a girl? I guess I'll find out.

Yes, we are. And yes, there's only boys and girls, just like there's only light and dark (and I'm serious -- it is entirely reasonable to conceptualise the world this way). It's just that we are the bat->-bleeped-<-s who notice that the lighter shades of dark and the darker shades of light have more in common with each other than either has with pitch black or supernova-bright light. Whether you need a separate name for those batty shades is open to debate, although we do have opinions. 

Welcome, either for a short visit or a longer stay.

  Nfr

Funny, I thought of there being the black and white, and the TS showing up as the grey in between (until they fully transition), and androgynous as being the presence of actual color. Can I be blue?

(don't get me thinking too hard on this analogy though... I have studied color in from my years in drama club and computer science through the additive model (RGB) and years of art training using the subtractive model (RYB and CMY) with a dad that worked in the copy industry so a little bit of extra background in CMYK. And then if we start talking about hue and saturation and everything else my brain will explode. I swear, color is even more complex than gender!)

Even the Alpha and Omega do not come to an abrupt end of one and the other. Distance time and light could go on into infinities for they are an illusion. On both end of the spectrum, how many realities are there between each shade and beyond.?  Eh this don't really have anything to do with anything except a little cerebral exercise.
P.S. Should get Cindi here, she is eccelent at this kind of thing.

Cindy

Great. Bloody Marvellous.
Someone kindly describes us as not bat->-bleeped-<-, and everyone goes bat->-bleeped-<- on them.
Psychologically a person can be most things, to be honest boy and girl start not to enter into it all that much it seems, except as other places on the map that can be visited on holiday.
ANyway, watch Ace Ventura 2 - bat->-bleeped-<- can be priceless.

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 26, 2008, 08:41:18 PM
Great. Bloody Marvellous.
Someone kindly describes us as not bat->-bleeped-<-, and everyone goes bat->-bleeped-<- on them.
Psychologically a person can be most things, to be honest boy and girl start not to enter into it all that much it seems, except as other places on the map that can be visited on holiday.
ANyway, watch Ace Ventura 2 - bat->-bleeped-<- can be priceless.

People have gotten rich on guano, aka bat and bird ->-bleeped-<-.

But you're right about a person being able to be most things.  Whenever I hear or see people talking about things being either/or, I start thinking of instances where there is at least one example of them being wrong.  A single example is all you need to disprove an either/or type statement.  (It is one of the reasons I REALLY dislike people making statements like 'EVERYBODY does it.')

In high school I developed a reputation for being unable to answer a question with a simple yes or no answer.  Whenever someone asked such a question, I could easily think of instances where the 'wrong' answer was actually correct and the 'right' answer was wrong.  The phrase "It depends" seemed to fit things.

Life is a spectrum.

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 26, 2008, 08:41:18 PM
Great. Bloody Marvellous.
Someone kindly describes us as not bat->-bleeped-<-, and everyone goes bat->-bleeped-<- on them.
Psychologically a person can be most things, to be honest boy and girl start not to enter into it all that much it seems, except as other places on the map that can be visited on holiday.
ANyway, watch Ace Ventura 2 - bat->-bleeped-<- can be priceless.

I am unsure if I am responsible here or not. 

Mine was meant to be more comical (with maybe a hint of truth ?), looking back I can see how it may have been interpreted the wrong way. Sorry about that, I sincerely hope no one took offense to it, or thinks that I was calling anyone here insane. 

Ya there is bat->-bleeped-<- in the belfry. And i have once visited the bug house. When I graduated the school of nutery I came out with the papers that proved I was sane. Ya as I said in my post, I was just doing a little bit of cerebral exercise, which really had nothing to do with the bat ->-bleeped-<- discussion. Which in my opinion could be classified as hitting below the belt. "Oh my!" not nice, not very nice indeed, bad bad bad girl. Ok now I will resume giving you ten lashes with a sardine. "Hee, hee, hee." Yes I am in my prime of siliness this night. "Hey!" Just messin around

Well, I still love you guys anyway.

Cindy

Quote from: sd on February 27, 2008, 03:18:43 AM
I am unsure if I am responsible here or not. 

Mine was meant to be more comical (with maybe a hint of truth ?), looking back I can see how it may have been interpreted the wrong way. Sorry about that, I sincerely hope no one took offense to it, or thinks that I was calling anyone here insane. 

I would be more offended if you didn't use the word "insane" in reference to me.

Oh my dearest Rebis, you are much to wise, intelligent and sensitive to be insane. A little shy maybe, but not insane, well at least the shyness feels more prevalent then the nuttery part, er insanity part. My nick name on the reservation was half nut.

Cindy

Quote from: sd on February 27, 2008, 03:18:43 AM

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 26, 2008, 08:41:18 PM
Great. Bloody Marvellous.
Someone kindly describes us as not bat->-bleeped-<-, and everyone goes bat->-bleeped-<- on them.
Psychologically a person can be most things, to be honest boy and girl start not to enter into it all that much it seems, except as other places on the map that can be visited on holiday.
ANyway, watch Ace Ventura 2 - bat->-bleeped-<- can be priceless.

I am unsure if I am responsible here or not. 

Mine was meant to be more comical (with maybe a hint of truth ?), looking back I can see how it may have been interpreted the wrong way. Sorry about that, I sincerely hope no one took offense to it, or thinks that I was calling anyone here insane. 

Hi SD,

Can't speak for your peers, but here's my thoughts anyhow.

I know how you lovelies like to joke but describing yourselves as 'bat->-bleeped-<-' could be taken as belittlement of your gender. When one's gender, one's very identity is denied legitimacy even in the trans world, you should take yourselves, your gender, a bit more seriously, my friends.

Quote from: Nero on February 27, 2008, 11:03:12 AM

Quote from: sd on February 27, 2008, 03:18:43 AM

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 26, 2008, 08:41:18 PM
Great. Bloody Marvellous.
Someone kindly describes us as not bat->-bleeped-<-, and everyone goes bat->-bleeped-<- on them.
Psychologically a person can be most things, to be honest boy and girl start not to enter into it all that much it seems, except as other places on the map that can be visited on holiday.
ANyway, watch Ace Ventura 2 - bat->-bleeped-<- can be priceless.

I am unsure if I am responsible here or not. 

Mine was meant to be more comical (with maybe a hint of truth ?), looking back I can see how it may have been interpreted the wrong way. Sorry about that, I sincerely hope no one took offense to it, or thinks that I was calling anyone here insane. 

Hi SD,

Can't speak for your peers, but here's my thoughts anyhow.

I know how you lovelies like to joke but describing yourselves as 'bat->-bleeped-<-' could be taken as belittlement of your gender. When one's gender, one's very identity is denied legitimacy even in the trans world, you should take yourselves, your gender, a bit more seriously, my friends.

I have to say I disagree with you there, take something as stupid as androgyny seriously? 

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 27, 2008, 11:38:46 AM

Quote from: Nero on February 27, 2008, 11:03:12 AM

Quote from: sd on February 27, 2008, 03:18:43 AM

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 26, 2008, 08:41:18 PM
Great. Bloody Marvellous.
Someone kindly describes us as not bat->-bleeped-<-, and everyone goes bat->-bleeped-<- on them.
Psychologically a person can be most things, to be honest boy and girl start not to enter into it all that much it seems, except as other places on the map that can be visited on holiday.
ANyway, watch Ace Ventura 2 - bat->-bleeped-<- can be priceless.

I am unsure if I am responsible here or not. 

Mine was meant to be more comical (with maybe a hint of truth ?), looking back I can see how it may have been interpreted the wrong way. Sorry about that, I sincerely hope no one took offense to it, or thinks that I was calling anyone here insane. 

Hi SD,

Can't speak for your peers, but here's my thoughts anyhow.

I know how you lovelies like to joke but describing yourselves as 'bat->-bleeped-<-' could be taken as belittlement of your gender. When one's gender, one's very identity is denied legitimacy even in the trans world, you should take yourselves, your gender, a bit more seriously, my friends.

I have to say I disagree with you there, take something as stupid as androgyny seriously? 

Well, it's your gender. I sure as hell take mine seriously. If you'd rather be seen as a 'stupid' joke, by my guest. *shrugs*

Quote from: Nero on February 27, 2008, 11:03:12 AM
Hi SD,

Can't speak for your peers, but here's my thoughts anyhow.

I know how you lovelies like to joke but describing yourselves as 'bat->-bleeped-<-' could be taken as belittlement of your gender. When one's gender, one's very identity is denied legitimacy even in the trans world, you should take yourselves, your gender, a bit more seriously, my friends.

While I want to pull a "if you can't laugh at yourself....", you are right in this case. In another place and time it would have probably been okay but I forgot what the thread was about, which only makes it worse. 

I personally don't take my gender overly seriously, or my sexuality. But I try not to take ANYTHING too seriously. Then again, I also don't consider my gender to be trivial either. I suppose I find it fascinating. I do try and view it with a bit of levity.

I don't tend to consider myself crazy, and certainly not bat->-bleeped-<- crazy. I do consider myself perhaps a bit atypical, but that's fine. I know some do consider us crazy, and even some of us consider us crazy, and that's fine too. Sometimes people are prejudiced against us too, including some of us, and that's fine too.

In all honesty, I think most of us have it easier than most TS. Sometimes I even wonder if some of us have it even easier than the 'normals'. There are moments of fear, confusion, etc, but pretty much everyone has those, even normals (I am guessing that almost everyone out there has had the thought "Wait, what if I was really supposed to be the other gender?" at some point).

What it all comes down to is how do we handle it, and how do we cope? Most androgynes tend to cope with levity, siliness, and the refusal to take anything too seriously. Some cope with the utmost sincerity and concern. Some of us cope by over-analyzing.

So... are we crazy? Nah. We are just human.

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 27, 2008, 11:38:46 AM
I have to say I disagree with you there, take something as stupid as androgyny seriously? 

I'm curious as to why you consider androgyny to be stupid.  Is it just an off the cuff statement or do you have deep seated reasons for such a viewpoint?

Quote from: Rowan_Danielle on February 27, 2008, 12:37:24 PM

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 27, 2008, 11:38:46 AM
I have to say I disagree with you there, take something as stupid as androgyny seriously? 

I'm curious as to why you consider androgyny to be stupid.  Is it just an off the cuff statement or do you have deep seated reasons for such a viewpoint?

Thinking it was off the cuff. Pica feels serious enough about hir gender for deep analyzation, dissection and formation of hir own theories about it.