I've brought this up before in another thread, but I wanted to create my own about it because I'm curious.

I've never lived the life of an adult man. Growing up I knew that a father was something I would never live to be, nor would I ever be able be intimate with a woman as a man. These two things caused me more distress than anything. Fulfilling the biological functions of a male was the stuff of nightmares to me.

So I ask, how did you manage it? Did you block it out? Did you recontrxtualize it? Was your adult male life like living in cryo-sleep?

I'm more or less asking what did you do to combat the dysphoria that having sex or impregnating another person would cause?

My dysphoria was subtle enough that I didn't understand it fully until I was in my sixties.  However, being a father was something that I always knew I had no interest in. 

My social development as a "man" was impaired.  I now know why, but at the time, all I knew was that I was somehow different.  Sex as a man was not something that came naturally to me.  I had to learn it.  So I didn't marry until I was in my 40s.  And I knew that there was no way I wanted kids at that age.  My wife felt the same way, fortunately.  So I managed to avoid fathering any children.

At 57, my primary alter (Primary) has never been able to bring himself to have PIV. Acts involving use of his genitalia do not excite him and he was incapable of climax years before he was prescribed estrogen treatment. Primary describes the feeling like "being touched through a rubber suit."

Primary has never been able to tolerate sex scenes in films, TV or books.  of having children, His fear of being pressured into having children, doing things with his genitals, and rejection for his inability to perform made the idea of forming intimate relationships horrifying.

As Primary progressed in trauma therapy, his mind slowly allowed him to remember the sexual abuse he suffered as a child that it had hidden from him for nearly 50 years. His psychologist explained it was common for a trauma victim's mind to block the feelings and memories of abuse so completely their conscious mind would deny these things ever occurred. And that Primary's aversion to his genitals and sexual intimacy, his lack of arousal and feeling, and his inability to climax were all common to survivors of sexual trauma. She also explained that CSA can cause some survivors sexual confusion and homosexuality in their adult lives.

I consider myself lucky in that I never really wanted children. I had no desire to bring up a child in my deranged family and the religious cult that I grew up in (I have almost no contact with family now and bailed on the "church" years ago). But I know these factors killed my desire. I did have a very active sex life as a guy for years but my intense fear of making a woman pregnant eventually forced me to slow down then eventually stop having sex with others. I never had much genital dysphoria mainly because things "worked so well" and felt so good. Having a feminine body to begin with decreased my "choices" somewhat, but my social development as a man was otherwise very much impaired due to my dysfunctional upbringing. Somehow I managed and consider myself very lucky to be childless.

I don't know if this helps this discussion (or confuses it), but these are my thoughts...

I'm open to seeing where the discussion goes, but my main question was to those who had already been married to women and had children and how they managed their dysphoria around that, since I couldn't even bring myself to have a relationship because of how it was for me.

If you love the person that you're with then anything is possible.  That's my experience and I've only had sex with two people, my wife and one other once before.  The first one was not really that enjoyable.

As for children, I have two.  They have nothing to do with dysphoria.  You love your children and raise them as best you can.


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Quote from: Deborah on November 07, 2017, 05:29:56 PM
If you love the person that you're with then anything is possible.  That's my experience and I've only had sex with two people, my wife and one other once before.  The first one was not really that enjoyable.

As for children, I have two.  They have nothing to do with dysphoria.  You love your children and raise them as best you can.


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I love my partner as well, but it didn't really change anything for me... maybe it's only with heterosexual female partners that this would be the case?

How did impregnating someone not make you dysphoric, though?

I have 5 kids and have been married 23 years. The ability to bury it went away when I was 53, now 55 going on 56. One day I woke up and said to myself, I'm a woman. I knew this from about 4, but never really articulated it to myself or admitted it. The internal identity would no longer be denied. You have to understand too that I grew up at a time when I am Jazz would have been impossible except in a Fellini movie. Having to hide who I was, was learned quickly.


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I got you covered.

When I was 19 I had my first failed transition attempt. I decided to go totally to the other end of the spectrum and "man up." Found a girl, didn't necessarily like her but she was available, married her, and had a child with her. The relationship didnt last very long but ive constantly been in contact with him and have had primary custody for the past 4 years. In this instance, my dysphoria wss quieted by the need to present male. I pushed everything trans away and just did the "guy thing."

I'm currently waiting for my second child to be born in December. In this instance, I was out to my partner and we decided that we would like to have a baby. I mustered the strength, did the deed, then cried...everytime. She was understanding an never said anything ba to me because she knew if hurt a lot. In this instance, my desire to have the child was greater than the dysphoria. I am going to get a chance to be a mom since we've agreed that is what's best. That, to me, is worth any amount of pain.

Quote from: Allie24 on November 07, 2017, 05:08:17 PM
I'm open to seeing where the discussion goes, but my main question was to those who had already been married to women and had children and how they managed their dysphoria around that, since I couldn't even bring myself to have a relationship because of how it was for me.

To begin with I buried my disphoria with coming to terms of deciding I was never meant to be happy in this lifetime. I buried emotions. I learned to turn my mind away the instant emotions surfaced. I focused on logical things. I took a job working on machinery. I never dated. My spare time was computer games mostly and well more work.

I did want kids. I never understood why but starting in my early twenties I found myself wanting so much to be like moms with their kids going through the store. I felt empty when I saw families.  There were times I woke up in tears wanting a baby so badly. I couldn't understand why I awoke to such feelings. It didn't make real sense. I had to tell myself that those feelings didn't belong because I was born as I was and I was stuck living the life expected of me.

Near 30 I bumped into a lady who would become my wife and partner. We met online just talking through messages on an old Yahoo social media site. Somehow through force of her will we met in person. We married six months later. Through all of our ups and downs we have so far stuck together. We have had issues. In many ways I did not fit the bill of what she expected a man to be. Sometimes I tried harder to meet what I thought she expected. In many ways this only increased our combined confusion. All the emotions being slowly turned loose in my head was not easy to deal with. Sometimes life especially with small kids is so busy that you don't get time to analyze yourself. I did find deep fulfillment being a parent. There's something indescribable about holding your newborn. Then again as I write this my two are sitting on the couch with me watching Casper. That's not to shabby either.
Eventually I could hold in my feelings no more. I tried very poorly at first, to explain these things in my head, these feelings that I could never make go away. I woke my wife up one night and explained these deep inner secrets to her. She said, "you're trans" followed by "that explains a lot". Anyway that was my breaking point.

I'm not sure that really explained how I made it as long in denial as I did. I think I just went blubbering.     

Quote from: Allie24 on November 07, 2017, 06:36:45 PM
How did impregnating someone not make you dysphoric, though?

I'm not entirely certain but my guess is that it was a combination of two things.  The first is that I had really high testosterone all my life.  The second is that I usually just dissociated from my physical body and imagined a different one. 

As far as impregnating specifically, I never thought about it as you do.  I was married, we both wanted children, and given that there was only one way of going about making that happen.


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I've never wanted children so maybe that's a factor.

They offered to freeze my gametes so I could have biological kids later down the line, but I said no cuz I didn't want that stuff getting inside anybody X(

Idk... even cis guys, though, I just don't understand the appeal of any of it :/ it's just icky to me

I was raised with a values system that held conformity to the cookie cutter pattern above all else.

When I was young, adults would scold me for doing "girly" things. When I was 6 I was beaten by a teacher for playing with a doll. The boys would bully and ridicule any activity or characteristic they did not deem as right for a boy. When I was 13 my dad forbade me from doing any kind of artistic activities because, "that's too effeminate for a son of mine."

I grew up knowing that I wanted to live as a girl and thinking that made me a sick deviant. I did everything I could to hide it, bury it and make it go away. It never did.

I did wild, reckless things to prove to myself and everyone else that I was a "real man." I enlisted in the Army, in a combat role. After that, I took a manly, macho job in construction despite my more artistic inclinations.

When my family started pushing me to start a family, I interviewed (dated) a few prospects and married the woman I thought I could best live with. We were married 25 years and had two kids, who despite my presence in their lives turned out to be decent adults. I love my kids and would do anything for them. I do not regret taking part in their coming into being.

All these things I did because I was brainwashed to believe they were the right things to do.

I was 54 when I finally realized that I am not a sicko, that I'm just me and that's O.K. I accept myself now and am working towards letting the woman who I am, who has been so abused and ignored, to shine and live life to it's fullest.

Quote from: Allie24 on November 07, 2017, 07:50:01 PM
I've never wanted children so maybe that's a factor.

They offered to freeze my gametes so I could have biological kids later down the line, but I said no cuz I didn't want that stuff getting inside anybody X(

Idk... even cis guys, though, I just don't understand the appeal of any of it :/ it's just icky to me

Hi Allie,

I think the real answer to your question is that transgender people aren't all the same.  Dysphoria can work differently.  For some it's body hair, for some it's voice, for some it's dealing with men,  for some it is genitalia, for some it's combinations of many things, etc., etc. and even some trans people don't have dysphoria.   

I dislike my genitalia, when I was younger I used rubber bands to cut off the circulation to my testicles because I hated them so much.  Never had the guts to see it through though and I think I'm lucky because  I think it's a pretty dangerous thing to do.

This might be too much info but you asked 😊  I can most of the time imagine that I'm a woman having sex.  Having my breasts fondled or sucked helps.  Having no body hair helps.  Straddling my partner like a woman and not be able to see the genitals helps.  It actually feels like I'm stimulating where my vagina should be.   I should also mention that I fail on occasion because my imagination doesn't work and I feel like a fake.  This probably doesn't make any sense to you, but again you asked. 😊

I think your asking how you could do it.  You probably can't because your dysphoria is so focused on male genitals.  I think it's as simple as that.

As for children that's easy.  You don't have to be a father.  You can just be a parent.

I hope this helps,
Paige

Mostly I didn't, as much as I wanted to be normal I just could not. I was absolutely horrible to girls so that no one would know that the problem was me. I had only ever been successful with women a handful of times in my life. I had many times taken care of women in other ways though, yes sad to say it was still "icky" but I have done a lot of unsavory things to keep up the appearance of being normal. The whole penetration thing was always more than I could bear. The few times that I was successful? One time, the first, when I was 16 it was just hormones taking over when I was very drunk. I have no idea how it worked, she was 19 and I was trying very hard to ignore what was happening. I started to cry but luckily I threw up too and no one noticed. Ugh, just thinking about this is... The other three times I did exactly what I am doing now, turned myself off. I don't know how I do it, I started when I was very young, it doesn't always work like that or that easily but when things are really bad I am just not there. It's like I am looking down from the Hubble Telescope, it's all there to see but it's happening somewhere else. No sound, or smell, no physical sensation at all just the ridiculous far away movie that I can't wait to be over.

I can't explain better than that.

Oops, I kind of lost track of where I was. So now I have to edit. 

I did try eventually to have children, attempts 2-4 were to give someone I love a child. She knew the issue I had and I took care of her in other ways. After the third time she said it freaked her out too much so we never tried again. That was hmmmmm.... 20+ Years ago.

With men I can be myself. At first I was worried that I just wasn't capable but as long as he doesn't touch, well you know, it's wonderful now.

I feel like I'm a bit of a weird case in that I would love to have had kids, born from either role (certainly preferring being pregnant myself), but that my reaction to move inward and live as I did in isolation precluded an intimate relationship that would have of course been required. Regardless, I can readily picture "doing the deed" so to speak. Now having said that, I've never put it to the test, so who knows, if I had maybe I would have had an unexpected reaction, broken down, and reached this point earlier. But hypotheticals are just that. Until very recently I wasn't even able to pinpoint some of my behavior as genital dysphoria, and even then it is definitively on the light side. (I always come back to the not hating maleness, just preferring femaleness. I have frustration with maleness that it holds me back from being female, but it doesn't inherently revolt me.)

For what it's worth though, I adore my nephews, and hopefully in the future (soon but not too soon ) my sister will have kids so I get to live vicariously all over again! (Being the uncle/soon aunt is a fun role. You get a lot of the good stuff without having to save for college.)

I put of transitioning to have my own biological children at 23 years old. I then raised both of them alone since their birth which was 14 years ago. I am now just starting to transition as I feel they are old enough to grasp it all and they are incredible in terms of the whole change despite my slow transition at this time.

In terms of the act the answer is simple. I got stoned on a joint from a friend both times and mildly drunk on whiskey then we did it in the dark. She was a nice girl but I did not love her and only slept with her both times as I wanted kids of my own. So I guess in my case the desire to be a parent overrode my own needs for as long as I could muster.

Quote from: Roll on November 07, 2017, 11:11:53 PM(I always come back to the not hating maleness, just preferring femaleness. I have frustration with maleness that it holds me back from being female, but it doesn't inherently revolt me.)

Exactly the same for me. I guess now that I'm transitioning I feel desperate for the "end" female result. Whatever that is. But I like men generally speaking. Having a child with one would have been nice but it won't happen in that way for me. I may adopt some day but I don't know if I would do this on my own.

It never crossed my mind to impregnate someone. That role wouldn't ever fit for me in this life.


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Quote from: Gertrude on November 07, 2017, 06:54:18 PM
I have 5 kids and have been married 23 years. The ability to bury it went away when I was 53, now 55 going on 56. One day I woke up and said to myself, I'm a woman. I knew this from about 4, but never really articulated it to myself or admitted it. The internal identity would no longer be denied. You have to understand too that I grew up at a time when I am Jazz would have been impossible except in a Fellini movie. Having to hide who I was, was learned quickly.
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This is exactly my experience down to the fact that I was married for 23 years, I have 5 kids and I began my transition at  53.   The only difference is that I am already 56.

I knew when I was young that I was female but didn't have the ability to express it openly.  I guess my dysphoria was not as severe as it is for others.  I learned to man up, after being physically abused, and tried very hard to be the person society expected me to be.  I had a number of relationships and had one child with a woman who met me at a party and used me to get pregnant.  I had 4 children with my ex-wife and I know pretty much exactly when they were conceived because our sex life was not very intense. 

I kept my true self buried for many years and just focused myself on work and my kids.  When I was 53 my feelings came back and it was like getting hit with a sledgehammer.  Once I started HRT I knew there was no turning back and I dove headfirst into a complete transition. 

I'm very lucky that all of my kids are very supportive of me and love the true me.   I am truly blessed that I have them in my life and I am so glad that I was able to father them.

I have two kids. My son is 26 and my daughter is 12. I was married to my daughter's mom for almost 10 years.

I'm 60 now. Been divorced since 2011. My wife didn't know I was trans.

I raised my son myself since he was about 6. Kids are a lot of work! I would not do it again.

I've always dated women. I'll still date women after I transition. I actually never wanted kids. I'm guess I'm just not very maternal. Lol

But I love them both.


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