Quote from: Roll on November 07, 2017, 03:01:43 PM
There is an important distinction to be made here in the distinction of rationality and higher reason... Just because we are rational beings, does not preclude that other animals are not as well. Many are quite rational. Are they able to reason in in a Cartesian abstract? No. (But that doesn't mean they will never be able to given a certain evolutionary path.) And this absolutely does create a separation between us and other animals, just as a platypus being an egg laying mammal separates it from other animals, or any other unique evolutionary feature does the same. But that doesn't mean we will always be separate or are separate in entirety (ie: we aren't inherently separate), simply that we are separate for now in that one regard. Though this is a notably important regard insofar as it has led us to our current role in the world. (And I know that the platypus is not the only egg laying mammal, it was just an easy example that is relatively unique. )

As for the issue of instinct/appetite... I would hold that following these things is entirely rational. Not always reasonable, but pretty much definitively rational. Self preservation, propagation of the species, and all that. (Example of not being reasonable even if rational: Eating the last of a seed bearing fruit that could have been planted to grow even more fruit long term. If you're hungry, eating it is rational. But the lack of foresight and long term planning make it unseasonable. Playing into the separation of humans from most animals, few if any would do anything but eat the piece of fruit outright. Agriculture isn't big with squirrels and badgers.)

In regards to issues such as the Vegas shooter Jenn mentioned... Well, we also have to remember that rationality and reasoning is subjective, and us being rational and reasonable beings does not exclude the possibility of damage to our cognition in some form. The truth is no one acts without a reason. No one. It's just sometimes an absolutely insane reason as per the standards of the majority, but rational and reasonable to the individual nonetheless. I recall a thought experiment that goes through a number of questions regarding justification being based in belief, things that overwhelmingly people agree to. It then turns it around with the example of a serial killer who believed he was killing those possessed by demons or who were alien lizard men or some such, and saving humanity by doing so. It often catches people in a philosophical quandary in which they believe action is justified by belief, but that the killer's actions are not justified by his beliefs. I personally don't buy into that line of thinking (I hold that a belief is justified, but that justification ends where someone else's sovereign beliefs begin), but it does illustrate the issue of subjective reasoning.

Yeah Roll but sometimes people are just totally insane. I do the psychology deal. Well more parapsychology than clinical psychology though. Blessed crosses work in some cases and some they do not. But believing a cross has been blessed is different than wanting to kill people for being "reptilian beings".

Subjective reasoning? I can't explain how blessed crosses work for some and don't work for others other than their faith that it will work. Living in a place that is supposedly haunted or has paranormal activity is appealing to some and don't even bother them and to others is does and sometimes to the point it effects them negatively psychologically.

What kind of psychological defect does it take to kill someone just for the sake of killing? I don't know the answers because I can't comprehend the mentality. But it could be some type of psychosis though. The reptilian theory would fall into that category. But reasoning would be asking yourself what threat do these people that may or may not be reptilians from another planet pose to me? I mean there is a saying that a sane person will always question their own sanity but an insane person is totally convinced they are sane.

I will tell you right now that I am crazy as hell. But I have fun and don't hurt anyone other than feelings maybe.

But subjective or not, sometimes there are just evil people that want to hurt or kill others in our midst. The Vegas Shooter, The Texas Church shooter, Hitler. Mao and a lot of others. I think the possibility was always there. I mean the Texas murderer broke his own child's skull and the Vegas shooter treated his girlfriend like crap so... Maybe it was always there waiting to come out.

Quote from: Jenntrans on November 07, 2017, 03:36:57 PM

What kind of psychological defect does it take to kill someone just for the sake of killing? I don't know the answers because I can't comprehend the mentality.

Sadly, not that extreme of one in likely statistical terms. Many people (though I absolutely do not believe most people) are capable of killing or desire to kill someone just for the sake of killing, for any number of what are disturbingly logical reasons (this actually is one of those things that doesn't set us apart from many animals, who contrary to popular myth often do kill for fun). The bigger question may be what defect drives them to be willing to do so even though they will get caught/killed/etc. in the process, as those aforementioned many do not act on those desires because the desire isn't strong enough to be worth the risk.

QuoteBut subjective or not, sometimes there are just evil people that want to hurt or kill others in our midst. The Vegas Shooter, The Texas Church shooter, Hitler. Mao and a lot of others. I think the possibility was always there. I mean the Texas murderer broke his own child's skull and the Vegas shooter treated his girlfriend like crap so... Maybe it was always there waiting to come out.

I agree, and do definitively believe in evil. Unfortunately, rationality and reason have often been the justification, or rather excuse for true evil, and because of this evil has been able to be sold to the masses far more often than I find comfortable (ie: the legitimate Nazi electoral victories or popular support for the Soviet and Chinese revolutions).

Where I live you can carry in your vehicle concealed or not within the vehicle but not on your person and I usually use the big brother to the .380, a Beretta 9mm with hollow points. If pulled over all I have to do is tell the cops first thing. They may run the numbers but usually they don't care too much.
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Unless you are black, in which case they shoot you as soon as you tell them.  #philando

Quote from: rmaddy on November 07, 2017, 06:23:47 PM
Where I live you can carry in your vehicle concealed or not within the vehicle but not on your person and I usually use the big brother to the .380, a Beretta 9mm with hollow points. If pulled over all I have to do is tell the cops first thing. They may run the numbers but usually they don't care too much.


Unless you are black, in which case they shoot you as soon as you tell them.  #philando

No I have seen the Videos. The cop should have asked where the weapon was before asking for ID and disarm him if necessary. And to be completely honest it is not a black or white thing. It is a thing of the cop wanting to get home to their family at the end of the shift. My BF is a cop and he does not trip out with CCW carriers. He does however get on guard if someone has a weapon in the vehicle without telling him first thing.

OK in today's times this is what you should do when pulled over by the cops. Find a safe place to pull over, roll down the window and put both hands on the wheel. If you have a CCW and carrying then tell them first thing and then ask them if they want to disarm you. A cop will not steel my weapon and if they think it is no big deal then request them to disarm you for their own comfort and peace of mind. If they say no problem then move slowly to get ID or whatever else. And Rookies are  definitely prone to overreact so if the cop is a "slick sleeve" then just assume they are a rookie.

I don't know the whole Philando deal and I doubt you do too. The Jury knew and the Judge knew but I will tell you that when you go through the CCW classes they teach you exactly what to say and how to act to a Law Enforcement Official if stopped. I know from my BF that some cars he stops sometimes are possibly stolen vehicles. Even speeding he never knows who he is going to stop. I worry so much about him. So I am on the other side. But he works mostly admin but every now and then on patrol. Thank god it is a small town but when he does I can't sleep or even function for worry.

My better half tells me that when a call comes over the radio that you never know. When he pulls someone over for speeding he never knows if they are just trying to get from point A to point B, stole the care or even robbed a bank with nothing to lose.

And yes there are plenty of LGBT cops. They are right up there with the rest of the statistics. I love him with all of my heart and I want him to wake me up after his shift in the middle of the night or cook supper or breakfast for him and so on. Pretty much I am a cop's wife so the other wives always invite me so... It is a different world. Some of my family is skeptical and so on. Some of my old friends are the same way because he is a cop but off duty he could care less about whatever. After all he is just human too.

Mmmm...

Just a little off topic...


Paula, X.

I wouldn't worry to much about the online feminists as they tend to be faceless keyboard warriors. The feminists I encounter in day to day life have been alright or very supportive with Trans people. It's hard enough being Trans without reading negative comments from 1 or 2 bigots xx

Quote from: paula lesley on November 12, 2017, 09:32:39 AM
Mmmm...

Just a little off topic...


Paula, X.

Not really Paula. Philando Castille made a mistake of reaching for his wallet after he told the cop he had a weapon and could carry.

I am trans and have a CCW and I still had to go through all the classes and pay for them. The state don't charge me a fee because I can provide my DDform214.

but yeah you are right on second thought because that is way off topic but I do have to defend myself too.

But hardcore feminist will hate anyone and that includes trans women and trans men. Pretty much anyone other than militant feminist. Now there are feminist out there that will accept us as women and there are men out there that will accept trans men as men.

Maybe just maybe the militant feminist view of trans men are reflected because they don't contribute to their own agenda. But to me anyone that hates someone else because of who they are and trash them are lacking in their own identities and who they are. Maybe they are so deep in the "closet" that all they can express is anger and hatred.

As for me trans men and trans women along with cis men and cis women and LGBs are all individual people. The only thing that I can think of is envy that makes people hate and discredit others.

I hope this is sort of back on topic.