So I've been on hormones for almost 2 years now. I started laser hair removal very early and it is almost all gone. My hair is now just past my shoulders. I still haven't socially transitioned though, I go out and about in boy mode. That's my choice and I don't want to present as female until my SRS is done. When I can't wear a big jacket I put a chest binder on underneath my shirt to hide my breasts.

When I first learnt about hormones, I read on one website (I don't think I'm allowed to link it so I won't) that the effects of hormones are 'generally quite subtle' and 'easy to hide.'

Well I am now learning that is really not quite the case. I have had several awkward occurences in the past few months.

A lady came into my place of work (where my uniform is business menswear WITH a tie) and she carried on for about 20 seconds saying; "You're not a boy, you're a girl aren't you? You're not a boy, you're a girl." And she basically kept repeating that a few times over. I felt so awkward at the time but after reflecting on it, I actually think she thought I was an FTM transgender male. Even when I spoke (and I haven't changed my voice, it is still my regular male voice) she kept going. I'm not really sure what went through her head, but perhaps she was transphobic and trying to out me as being a trans man. It's actually kind of funny, isn't it?

A couple of times when I've been in public bathrooms, I've had men walk in while I was washing my hands then quickly jump out to check they weren't in the womens toilet. It recently went one step further when I was at university, a boy did just that and looked very alarmed. When he came back in he said; "Excuse me, this is the male bathroom!" I was looking straight at him and he kept going. I honestly don't see my face as being 'female.' So that was super awkward. He truly believed I was a girl and thought that I had accidentally gone into the wrong bathroom.

I also constantly have salespeople and even teachers in class refer to me and friends as 'ladies' without thinking twice. Once I was in a practical class and in a group of 3 with a senior student helping. The teacher came in 3 or 4 times referring to us as 'girls' and when one of the girls pointed out that we weren't all girls (so she thinks) he looked at the senior student (who is a boy) and laughed, saying "Oh yeah, I wasn't counting him." .... !!!

I heard a little girl also ask her mum at the shop about me; "is that a boy?"

So yeah, it's happening regularly now and I guess it's bittersweet. One friend suggested I put my hair up in a bun to look more masculine but it actually makes me look even more feminine.. I tried it once.

I'm going to keep going with my plan not to socially transition until after my surgery and take all of these things in my stride. It just feels awkward when it happens and uncomfortable. I wish there was a way I could make myself look more boyish. Maybe if I didn't start so quickly with laser on my face. Hormones have even changed the shape of my eyebrows.. I always thought that they were so bushy and masculine that it would disguise me. I was wrong, they have changed and thinned out to a more feminine shape all on their own.

So I think I'm coming to accept that this kind of thing is going to keep on happening and I have to just deal with it in the mean time. I never share personal life experiences like this very much on here, so I thought I'd get it off my chest. Everyone else must have similar experiences. I just never expected HRT to change me so dramatically. In another year or so it will be a good thing!

Yeah - it is starting slowly but then increases in frequency. While I am fully out I have days where I just dress in jeans, polo sneakers and no makeup. In that outfit I had it happen twice that men saw me in the men's room, apologized and walked right back out... Just to make it clear to people I just wear skirts more often...

Elle,
You may be amused that l was at a meeting at a Unversity that you know well discussing issues for lgbtiqa students and staff. I'm of course the T on the committee. The Chair made the comment that there did not seem to be as many TG students as she expected and questioned if was this an issue of acceptance or another problem that we need to address. I told her that l knew of four TG students and two staff who were still in hiding.
Astonishment was expressed and l was asked if the Uni could help in some way. I just said that all would come to fruition in their own time and at their own pace.

Now you can walk around and wonder who the others are!

Quote from: Cindy on November 08, 2017, 07:43:12 PM
Elle,
You may be amused that l was at a meeting at a Unversity that you know well discussing issues for lgbtiqa students and staff. I'm of course the T on the committee. The Chair made the comment that there did not seem to be as many TG students as she expected and questioned if was this an issue of acceptance or another problem that we need to address. I told her that l knew of four TG students and two staff who were still in hiding.
Astonishment was expressed and l was asked if the Uni could help in some way. I just said that all would come to fruition in their own time and at their own pace.

Now you can walk around and wonder who the others are!

Haha! I knew there must be some in the same boat as me around the place.
That did make me smile Cindy. x

I've always looked at male fail as natures way of saying 'Young lady, enough of this nonsense! Out you go..!' It does feel encouraging no?

Quote from: Ellement_of_Freedom on November 09, 2017, 03:09:40 PM
Haha! I knew there must be some in the same boat as me around the place.
That did make me smile Cindy. x

When I confided in my Union rep my transgender status he mentioned (without breaching confidentiality) another member of our hall inquired about our benefits covering horomone therapy but it was forever ago and that person never followed through with it.

Since coming out fully at work Ive now learned my transitioning openly has inspired my union brother or sister to decide to transition finally themselves..!

Powerful stuff. And its always comforting to know theres someone else just around the corner. Maybe that was all the nudging they needed.

*shrug.*

I had a point to make in all of this but I think I lost it. Lol



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Elle, call me a fool but if every one takes you as a woman why not come out and be you? I just don't understand waiting for SRS, but I do understand we all have our reasons! I've been transitioning for just a few months and feel so free that I can never imagine living in man mode for even one more minute of my life.

Elle, I have to address the elephant in the room, lol. You are lucky that you do appear so close to your inner self. It might be uncomfortable and annoying at times but everyone here wishes they passed accidentally all the time. 

On the bright side, if you were being called male all the time, it would feel a lot worse, right?

This is such a nice story. I caught myself saying "I wish that happens to me soon" while I was reading it.

@Ellement_Of_Freedom count your blessings, as someone else said, this is life telling you "ok it's time to live as the real you!" So it's great news cuz whenever you decide to do it, you will have absolutely no issues passing.


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Quote from: Ellement_of_Freedom on November 08, 2017, 06:54:01 PMI don't want to present as female until my SRS is done.

Have you actually started planning for your SRS?  Most surgeons will want you to do 1 year of RLE (i.e. presenting full-time as female) before considering you for SRS, in accordance with the WPATH guidelines.  It is a good guideline, aimed at preventing transition regret.

Quote from: Angela Drakken on November 09, 2017, 04:39:07 PM
I've always looked at male fail as natures way of saying 'Young lady, enough of this nonsense! Out you go..!' It does feel encouraging no?

Don't get me wrong, it is a nice feeling. I just feel like it's happening a sooner than I expected/wanted.

Quote from: Dani2118 on November 09, 2017, 10:24:08 PM
Elle, call me a fool but if every one takes you as a woman why not come out and be you? I just don't understand waiting for SRS, but I do understand we all have our reasons!

Not everyone takes me as a woman but I know what you're saying.. honestly the thought of tucking everyday is not appealing to me. I have changed a lot from hormones, too, but I want to have another year of feminising along with laser hair removal. This is just my personal choice for me. Everyone's transition is unique.

Quote from: josie76 on November 10, 2017, 06:42:00 AM
Elle, I have to address the elephant in the room, lol. You are lucky that you do appear so close to your inner self. It might be uncomfortable and annoying at times but everyone here wishes they passed accidentally all the time. 

On the bright side, if you were being called male all the time, it would feel a lot worse, right?

I know I'm lucky.. it's just bittersweet. And yes, being gendered male all the time would make me feel like the hormones aren't working.. it would make me feel hopeless. So yeah, you're right!

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on November 10, 2017, 08:16:26 AM
This is such a nice story. I caught myself saying "I wish that happens to me soon" while I was reading it.

@Ellement_Of_Freedom count your blessings, as someone else said, this is life telling you "ok it's time to live as the real you!" So it's great news cuz whenever you decide to do it, you will have absolutely no issues passing.

It will happen to you! When you least expect it.. like me, when I was minding my own business in the bathroom!
Yeah, I'd be lying if I said that being completely passable wasn't a top priority.

Quote from: KathyLauren on November 10, 2017, 08:18:13 AM
Have you actually started planning for your SRS?  Most surgeons will want you to do 1 year of RLE (i.e. presenting full-time as female) before considering you for SRS, in accordance with the WPATH guidelines.  It is a good guideline, aimed at preventing transition regret.

It is already booked and deposit paid. I'm having it done by Dr Suporn, who doesn't make 1 year RLE mandatory.

I don't mean to butt in or be out of place, but you said it was awkward and uncomfortable being misgendered as being female. SRS is something that no one will see. You do realize this kind of 'misgendering' is the ultimate goal right? When you socially transition you'll be thought of and treated as a woman with the pluses and minuses that go with it. And there are those who know who you are now, most will be fine and some will be nice but not like it one little bit. All this goes with who we are and all of us that have transitioned or are transitioning learn to deal with it. That's what the one year RLE is all about. RLE is no joke, some times it's really tough. There's a lot to learn and a lot more to change and SRS wont help with any of it except for maybe a little bit of confidence. Remember this, except for you and a few close intimate people no one else will ever know what's under your skirt! SRS doesn't make you a woman, that comes from the heart and mind. So don't depend on SRS to be some kind of magic bullet to finish making you a woman. None of us will ever be perfect women because perfect women don't exist. We just do our best to be the women we are and it takes time. What I'm saying is, your plan may have to change because of reality. Your woman is coming out and you may not be able to stop her and SRS is not a good reason to try!

I had about two and a half years of RLE before surgery and surgery made no difference in pass ability or comfort in public. It was spending time in public as Dena that overcame my fear and discomfort. RLE also help you overcome your dysphoria if you are socially dysphoric. You should consider at least part time RLE if not full time RLE in order to experience what your new life will be like. You will have to do it sooner or latter and as you are already having male fail, there is no time like the present.

If you fear going out by yourself, ask for somebody to go with you. A companion for your first few trips can reduce your nerves and fear while making the trip more enjoyable.

Thank you for your concerns but I don't believe RLE is necessary for every single transitioning person. Everyone's transition is unique. Also, without going into too much personal detail I have actually had my own unique experiences of 'RLE.'

Seeing as this is my thread, I don't think I should hold back my opinions just as everyone responding hasn't. I mean no offence, but I have to respond honestly.

I'm young and very feminine. For those who transition later in life I can understand why they would opt to go through RLE.. for example, they may have a lot more to 'lose' as such (relationships etc) due to the commitments they have established in their lifetime, so a 'preview' is appropriate. Older transitioners may also require a bit more help learning feminine mannerisms and ways of speaking after presenting as a man for all those years. For that I can understand why RLE may be beneficial. But for me? I don't need any help with that stuff.

I also believe the guidelines with regards to RLE have been loosening significantly. Perhaps it is necessary for some but not for others. And who's to say what RLE really is? There are plenty of women who dress exactly like me and don't wear makeup, with hair that is even shorter than mine. It's ridiculously close-minded and old-fashioned to consider RLE as something that involves putting on a dress, wearing jewelry and makeup, getting your nails done etc. We are in 2017 now people. Enforced RLE is outdated. Even my doctors have said the similar things, they agree with me. And it's not as if I wear masculine clothing anyway. When I really think about it and reflect, I've been doing RLE for years now, without the technicality of changing my gender marker, name etc.

A lack of RLE has never been an issue for me with regards to getting HRT and booking SRS either. It's sad to think that some of you didn't have a choice in the matter (even though it has been worthwhile for some of you, I don't think anyone has a right to tell us how to live). For me, I'm going to live my life exactly how I want, and that includes when I finish my transition.

There's a reason that there are other staff and students that Cindy mentioned who also haven't endorsed RLE. It's not the norm for everyone.

Quote from: Cindy on November 08, 2017, 07:43:12 PM
I just said that all would come to fruition in their own time and at their own pace.

We have the freedom to transition in a way that we feel comfortable with, and I think it's wonderful. We are so lucky to be in an era where being transgender is more understood and resources are attainable.

Not everyone chooses to get SRS, or even undergo HRT. The same goes for RLE. I certainly don't need RLE to be sure about what I've known my whole life, either. Transitioning is not a 'one size fits all' situation. I'm transitioning at a young age and quite frankly, I'm from a different era to a few of you ladies. Hell, some of you certainly fit what I have described- being married etc prior to coming out as transgender. Your perspective is obviously going to differ to mine. Basically what I'm saying is what works for one generation won't always work for another. No one that has responded is in their early 20s like me. Consider that life is profoundly different for me than it is for you. I can see the incentive to going full-time ASAP if you are already well into mid-life. After all those years, you don't want to waste anymore time not being your authentic self, and that is completely respectable.

->-bleeped-<- used to be officially considered a mental disorder, but look how much has changed. We are going to continue to see changes with regards to transgender healthcare and transitioning, too. Enforced RLE is already becoming redundant.

When I finish my transition in another year or so, I want to look at my reflection and see a woman's body. I want to see hips, breasts etc. I don't want to tuck. This is for me and only me, when I look in the mirror I'm going to smile and feel satisfied with my decision to allow my body to change prior to that day. I'm young, I have the rest of my life to present as a woman. Sacrificing another year to ensure a smooth transition isn't going to kill me. All of my facial hair will be gone and my body will have changed some more. I know what's best for me, and putting makeup on any remaining facial hair and tucking everyday does not fall within that category. Truly, I believe RLE will do more harm than good.

I mean no offence by this post, but I really do feel that there is this 'one size fits all' idea being conveyed in the responses. I have done my research and I'm not new around here. So yes, this response is longwinded and firm. I know a lot of you have my best interest at heart, but when I see a condescending response such as "Have you actually started planning for your SRS?" followed by a misinformed idea of RLE regulation, I'm going to have something to say.

I also want to add that I never asked for advice on this thread. I shared my experiences with the hope of starting some lighthearted discussion. I also mentioned how I never share stuff like this on Susans, and perhaps this is why.

Quote from: http://www.tsroadmap.com/index.htmlRushing into living full-time is probably the greatest cause of potential unhappiness in transition. Most of us want to do it quickly, but you have to be realistic. I believe the more preparation you make for living full-time, the more likely you'll have a smooth transition. Those who want to be accepted as female by others have to be adjusted to their new role mentally, physically, and financially.

Hey elle, I know im years late but id just like to say that this is the exact step that im going to be talking when I start HRT (im a 21 MTF) I don't look too masculine or too feminine.

I start my journey legit 1-2 weeks from now  and I just can't wait

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Elle, I totally understand your feelings, I'm in a similar situation. I didn't even start HRT because I fear that it would push me too far before I felt ready. There is no way I would be emotionally strong enough to handle hiding my breasts for example. I'm struggling with my voice, when I can get that to a usable state I'm going full-time.

I was always bullied for being different and feminine, as it turned out they were right. Now that's a great asset to have but it caused so many uncomfortable and strange and sometimes funny situations over the years, some of them very similar to what you described.

Nowadays I try to avoid all the situations where I have to visually reinforce that I'm male and I'm past the stage where I really want to hide but not at the stage where I would be comfortable being full-time.
There is no way that I'm wearing a men's suit and tie and those ugly men's dress shoes and I'm glad these are not required where I work.
I have skipped two weddings, two company parties and a funeral because of this. I buy only women's clothing and wear the not too feminine items to work and even this can cause some funny moments at restrooms, restaurants, shops, etc..

As someone who has been looking androgynous for quite some time, I suggest you to grow as much facial hair as possible and maybe, grow out your eyebrows (if you are plucking them). I have shoulder length hair as well but I tuck them under my beanie to make it look like I don't have long hair. Put some effort into your walking style, Try walking like a male with your chest open and shoulders pulled back. Keep your chin up and be stern when you speak. I think being tall helps as well because I am about 6'2 tall and I don't see a lot of girls around that height. With this being said, people will still get confused if you show up with no beard shadow, well-groomed eyebrows, and hair around your shoulders. I think of this as an advantage as I can pass as male/female if I put some-effort into that. I present as male in public and pull it off by wearing loose t-shirt and loose denim with my t-shirt hovering over my hips to cover my prominent hips and narrow waist. If I have to present as female, I just need to get the closest shave that I can get and maybe wear a nice dress with my hair out. My legs are quite long and dresses do bring some attention to my legs which oddly looks feminine while wearing a dress but super masculine in denim. Good luck!