So I was making a lot of progress, but I hit a huge snag last night.

When I was a child, I had no desire to be a girl or do anything girly. I was simply a boy and was fine with being a boy. Granted, I was more sensitive and emotional than most boys, but that didn't automatically make me a girl. Try as I might, there is very little there that actually makes sense if I'm trans. The first inclinations I remember were fantasies that started at age 12; I had no thoughts of being female before then and up until age 27 I never saw them as anything else.

I'm identifying as genderfluid now, but I have already had doubts about whether I'm reallyi a girl when presenting female. Being trans is something you're born with, the underlying structure of the brain doesn't match the body's. I should have felt something as a child but I didn't.

From what I've read here, a lot of people gain consciousness of their trans later in life. In my case, I didn't dislike being a boy, but definitely had fantasies of being a girl. It took until I was 24 to actually think there was something more.

Same here. The whole children knowing their trans thing is an unhealthy and unhelpful thing the media likes to pay all their attention too. You need to fit certain criteria to be 'really' trans.

As a child before puberty hit I was happy being a girl. There was a never a thought I remember where I thought to myself I wish I was a boy. I got to play with my brothers friends; I played typically boyish games with my male friends at school and hated pink or barbies; but I also enjoyed wearing the school dress in the summer and having my hair long and wearing clothes with flowers on them (albeit because I liked them aesthetically rather than them making me look or feel girly or like a girl). It makes sense as I grew up without gender norms being strictly enforced. If I grew up with parents saying act or only play with this because you're a girl I may have had an inkling back then.

What's important is how I feel now about my assigned gender and for how long since puberty it's made me beyond unhappy and uncomfortable. Who knows how I'll feel in the future but my mental health right now is important.

I've known since I was a child.....a child of about 46. 

There's no right way to be transgender,  and no right time to become aware of it. I  had trouble tying my shoes and putting peanut butter on toast when I was a kid. A thorough understanding of gender was not on my plate at that time.

Hugs, Devlyn

  I was born way back in 1952. I remember being a boy and doing boy things but I also remember being envious of my sisters and wishing I could be one of them. I remember easy bake ovens and baking cakes and cookies. I played with my sister's paper dolls and beginning to learn how to cook. I remember disastrous cream of wheat one morning and crying because of it. We had a cooking rule that you had to eat what you cooked. My mother let me slide that time. I remember not liking army men and the mock wars or airplanes and ships. I had friends that knew every kind of plane and every kind of ship. I didn't care about them at all. I liked playing hop scotch, jacks, jump rope and marbles. I like marble for their pretty designs and colors. I rarely played for keeps because I loathed losing my pretties. I don't remember dressing in girls clothes until 3rd grade. From then on I could not stop. I was in cub scouts and boy scouts and enjoyed the camping, hikes and cooking, but was never interested in advancing.
  I grew up in a different time where to want to be a girl was not only not accepted but it was wrong. If you did you were dirty, sick, perverted or mentally ill. So I felt all those things every time I felt like being girly or put on girl's clothes. I felt ashamed and riddled with guilt. As a result I grew up insecure with low self esteem after all I was sick, a deviate, perverted. Eventually my  surreptitious searches  yielded some results, I was sick. I was a deviate in my sexual needs, I was a ->-bleeped-<-. Remember this was a long time ago. Today that stigma surrounded transvestism is not there. But at least I knew what was wrong with me (and yes there was never any doubt there was something wrong) So I continued to grow up tainted with this definition of myself incorporating all those negative feelings about my dressing that I had no ability to stop. That wish I had to be a girl never left me either. I struggled all my life with these issues.
  I left home and joined the Navy to start a life for myself, to grow up and be a man. Nothing changed. I got an education for a good career and I got married and became a father. And nothing changed. I still dressed when I could. I still wanted to be a woman. Eventually I realized I could not stop dressing and quit trying. But all those feeling about myself were still there. My insecurities ruined my marriage and made me mean and angry. I abused drugs and became an alcoholic. It led to divorce and my daughter hating me when she left home. I wanted to die. I went into a deep depression where I almost did do myself in. And still I dressed. Still I wished I was a woman. As an adult dressing was an addiction in itself for me because when I dressed I was that woman the the weight of my world  went away with my male clothes. For a time I felt good.
  Skip ahead many years to last November. (most of my life story in between has been told elsewhere) Last November I first found out what I really was. I discovered the term "Gender Dysphoria" and I knew it was me. In December I started my journey. I was 64. Before then I did not know I was a transgender woman. I am but I still have problems accepting it for myself. I am still riddled with those same issues I grew up with but added on is my feelings of unworthiness and failure. I've failed as a man, as a husband, as a father and now a grandfather. I've ruined everything I held dear in my life for what? A wish that I was a girl / woman. Do I envy those that knew early on and were able to transition young? Yes I do. Would I have done the same had I been able to? Yes I would. But that was not to be and my life since has conspired to ruin itself for that wish. I am in transition but I have a difficult time with it now.
  With my daughter and grand kids taken out of my life I see little reason to continue on. It reinforces those horrible feelings I grew up with. I'm still guilty, insecure, unworthy, and a failure in life. I don't deserve to be loved. I'm sick. I got thrown right back into that 2 years of depression after my divorce and all those problems I grew up with still haunt me.  I'm a transwoman with nothing to live for. But here I am, I'm still here and I don't know why.
  Being able to transition young would have saved me from all this grief. I could have grown up in ignorance not understanding why people wait so long to transition. Not to deny the dire need those young transitioners went through to become themselves, all I can say is that my life would have been a lot easier had I understood who I was inside earlier and was able to transition.

  Laurie

(Hugs) that's the best I can do right now Laurie.

(Hugs)

Rowan

Ps. Have a cookie, or maybe some cake

Quote from: Jamie_06 on November 10, 2017, 10:34:36 AMBeing trans is something you're born with, the underlying structure of the brain doesn't match the body's.

True.

QuoteI should have felt something as a child but I didn't.

False.

No, there is no requirement to be that self-aware as a child!  Children have a tough job to do: fitting into the box that their parents create for them.  It is a hard 24/7 job, and few kids have the awareness to question whether the box they were handed is or isn't the right one. 

So give your younger self a break already!  They don't need that kind of pressure.  What your younger self needs is a hug.  Tell them that it's okay that they didn't know.  That you know now, and you'll make it right for them.

  This thread isn't about me. It is about whether someone should know at an early age or not. My story is about how I did not know beyond a wish when I was young despite preferring typical girl things as a kid. It was a different time with completely different attitudes toward being trans. Although I did not feel an over whelming need to be a girl I still grew up having to deal with those forbidden desires. I believe we all suffer for not being who we are inside one way or another. The length of time it takes to come to the realization of who we are inside doesn't matter.
  This was my story nothing more.

Laurie

Laurie, we understand

I didn't know at an early age, I had a few compulsions to dress, but when I did, I felt incredible and ashamed - really mixed emotions, at a mixed up time. I vowed to not dress again - something in me knew that it would be a slippery slope that I would not be able to control, unless I stepped away from the edge. I knew of transsexuals by that age, but I didn't know any, and my family (not being the best), treated any deviance from the norm with disgust and revulsion (and still do).

So I buried the lot. I had no name for it, and a heap of guilt and shame. Fast forward 30 years or so, and all I knew was I was not a man. That was all. I started to google, and found a few resources, and descriptions of gender issues, and then started my journey of sorts, as the freight train of knowledge smashed its way in.

So, no idea as a child, none through early and mid adulthood and I've only had this understanding of myself for less than 10% of my life.

Everyone journey is different because of the environment they grew up in, their genetics and what their mothers took whilst they were in utero (and in some cases grandmothers).


Rowan

My thoughts on the original post: yes, these are things I have also considered.  I envied the girls down the street with their Easy-Bake but I did also enjoy playing in the mud and smashing toy cars (a precursor to insurance costs once I reached driving age).  I'm comfortable considering my own history as part of the gender spectrum.  I believe the human mind and consciousness is far too complex to automatically fit a gender binary as if we are machinery.

What I've learned years later works best is: identify and pursue what makes us happy for the long run.  Might sound like I am stating the obvious but social constraints can get in the way like a thick fog.

And Laurie, now you have other kids in your life - like me.   

Well I knew since forever. But that is just me.

You do know we can lie to ourselves right? Just because you didn't feel it does not mean you aren't.

I am a freak of nature so... Hell I will own it.

I would suggest getting to know yourself on an intimate level. That you can do with meditation. You can even see a hypnotherapist if need be. But whoever you are lies within yourself and subconscious maybe even deeper layers of the subconscious. But who you are is who you are. Sometimes people know at first memories and sometimes it is hidden until the time is right.

I can't say if you are trans or not nor anyone else can say. That power my dear is in your hands or rather your mind.

Look. Being trans is not a fad. Yes there are a trans actresses and yes we are somewhat sex symbols now in the porn industry but I have always been. I remember shaving my legs when the darker hair started to grow in. Underarms too. I hate body hair on myself and yes I shave above the knees.

But look, only you can answer that question. I mean I knew from an early age and my physiology kind of reflect that and even my psychology. I know who and what I am. But sometimes it takes a little longer to come to terms.

Just because your weren't a girl at 3 years old or feel like it does not mean you aren't trans. But I urge you to explore who you really are though through meditation and so on.

I consciously knew since I was 11 and before that I just thought I was weird.  As to how someone can know and still get on in life, you just compartmentalize in your mind and do what needs to be done.  Eventually though, at least in my case, that no longer worked anymore.


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I don't think that you can want to be something if you don't know it exists.  You can't know that you are not something if you don't know what the difference is. 

As a small child I didn't know that boys and girls had different bodies.  If I had known, I couldn't have thought that I was a girl.  If I had never encountered girls I could also not have thought that I was a girl.  I also had to find out that I was physically a boy before I could have known I was trans, even if I had known the concept "trans".  I would still have been trans but it might have taken me much longer to realise it.

We may or may not feel different as children, and the information we need to know ourselves can come at any time of life.   We are what we are, though, even while we don't know what we are.

I figured it out at age 13 and that's a relatively common age to discover this though it can be earlier or latter. Before age 13 I was constantly trying to figure the world as the rules didn't seem to come naturally. I didn't think there was anything unusual about my life because i didn't have anything to compare it with. Now that I am older and understand what a "normal" childhood is like, I can see where I didn't fit the pattern. This wasn't easy to and it took a while to rethink my life. It wasn't important toward my transition and I did it more as a matter of curiosity.

Having a history of being trans isn't important in your treatment. Growing up you might have been the equivalent of a tom boy though with a boys body instead of a girls body. The only question that needs an answer is what will make you comfortable today. Don't worry about the past because there is nothing you could have done then or today to change it. You are transgender because of biology and not because of your childhood.

You all gave some good responses; thank you.

Still there do seem to be enough signs in childhood from most of you that I don't have though. I should mention a few things that are more different about me: One, I'm pretty sure I have Asperger's Syndrome or something similar. Two, I'm not actually MTF; I'm genderfluid, so I am still a boy sometimes; I'm just a girl sometimes along with that. Do either of those affect how quickly I discovered myself?

It seems to take something to trigger our self exploration. Testosterone is a good trigger though some coming out much latter in life have another event as a trigger. One of the reasons I didn't trigger earlier is because I had feminine friends that I hung out with and any clothing triggers were covered by the fact I often wore dress pants and better looking button shirts instead of jeans and T shirt. When you aren't forced into a role that you are uncomfortable with, it may take a long time for that trigger to show up.

I suspect the Aspergers might keep you from questioning as much but nobody can know for sure that it delayed your self discovery.

Quote from: Dena on November 10, 2017, 06:51:45 PM
It seems to take something to trigger our self exploration. Testosterone is a good trigger though some coming out much latter in life have another event as a trigger. One of the reasons I didn't trigger earlier is because I had feminine friends that I hung out with and any clothing triggers were covered by the fact I often wore dress pants and better looking button shirts instead of jeans and T shirt. When you aren't forced into a role that you are uncomfortable with, it may take a long time for that trigger to show up.

I definitely agree. In my case I was always an effeminate boy and was attracted to girly things, my best friend was equally girly, we went to an all boys catholic school where I heard derogatory names towards both of us very often. I was embarrassed to tell my parents so I kept quiet. They loved me for me and never forced me to be more masculine...It was actually the bullying that made me try to butch it up. Years later I discovered I liked boys and started going out to gay clubs, and I realized in that world my femininity was accepted. I always thought I wanted to be a woman but then convinced myself that probably all gay men secretly wished the same but never said anything about it, so I didn't think much of it.

So what I'm trying to say is, I was always able to express my feminine side (still am) and it's very likely that that's the reason why my discomfort with my gender wasn't as strong and it took me a while to figure out I was trans.


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I, like Charlie Nicki was an effeminate kid and frequently taunted, but up until age 12 or so (darn testosterone) I was just Me.  That Me-ness, has always been there and the Me wobbled, but didn't really change again until around 40.  Since then, it has been more imperative I explore Me.  My therapist has been essential to this, as well as my recent and voracious book consumption. 

I think what I am saying is there is no unified transgender experience (that is a relic of the days when we HAD to say the right things to even be considered for help).  If genderqueer feels right (GNC in many ways is right for me currently) then you are in the right place.  Love yourself, seek community, find a good therapist, be patient and explore You.

I was a tomboy and often preferred to play with boys, loved sports especially football, hung out with the boys when they let me (3 of my first four friends were boys) and didn't particularly care about clothes, played with Tonka trucks, but tended to wear whatever my mom dressed me in. We lived way up in the hills in a rural area, so that usually meant pants and t-shirts. I had really girly swings too when I LOVED my pink polka-dot frilly dress, playing with Darci dolls (a Barbie competitor in the 1970s) and adored horses, and "decorated" and made "clothes" for my horses.

But I never really thought about what it meant. My mom was a super-hippy dippy chick and was trying to raise me without gender expectations (even made sure my name was unisex), and I played soccer with other girls, so they must be the same, right?

Hindsight being 20/20, I realize I was already showing gender swings, but since non-binary type gender identities weren't a known thing (we lived in the San Francisco area, so transgender and homosexuality were no big deal) it wasn't a concept for me to consider.

When my hormones hit at about 11, I did start to realize *something* was wrong/different about me, compared to the other girls, but I couldn't figure out what. It was also about the time I began to fantasize about having male parts. But since I didn't want to give up being female, trans made no sense. I never thought I was anything but cis - just a kind of weird cis - because I had no other known option to consider.

I think puberty is a more common time than childhood for people who are trans of some kind to begin to really feel their gender identity, if it doesn't match their body. As a child, life isn't as gendered, unless you have family/community that really pushes gender conformity. Without a strong frame of reference for gender as a child, it wouldn't be a big deal until hormones hit. And the hormones make it much more clear as your body parts begin to change - either as your brain expects, or in the opposite direction from what seems right.

I really don't understand where "adult-onset" transgender people come from, as far as brain biology and stuff goes (I tend to be science-minded, and consider nature more influential than nurture). I can't figure out if it's all simply a lack of understanding of who/what you are (like myself), long-term denial, or if it's something mental that clicks later in life.

Quote from: Jamie_06 on November 10, 2017, 06:31:56 PM
You all gave some good responses; thank you.

Still there do seem to be enough signs in childhood from most of you that I don't have though. I should mention a few things that are more different about me: One, I'm pretty sure I have Asperger's Syndrome or something similar. Two, I'm not actually MTF; I'm genderfluid, so I am still a boy sometimes; I'm just a girl sometimes along with that. Do either of those affect how quickly I discovered myself?

Yes and no. There are no excuses. You can't use autism or whatever when it is convenient as a excuse. Just be proud 0f who you are.

I have an autistic nephew and he told everyone he wants to be a girl last time he was in my home. But hey look I am not going to fight with his mom and dad.

I really don't know who is who or what is what and all I really know is me and what and what I am and that is all. I have no excuses or no rhymes or reasons as to why just who and what I am with no excuses. If anyone don't like it then screw them.

This will sound so messed up but just be you with no excuses and proudly be who you are.

I really can't explain it. Are you trans? Are you non binary? Are you cis? Who cares? You do and I do too but what difference does it make? You are here and I am too so clearly we feel different than cis people. But does that make us special? No more than anyone else. Yet we are though but it still ain't special though because we are just one in ten billion in the world.