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You have an inverted penis

Started by Ritana, August 17, 2017, 12:56:15 PM

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HappyMoni

Quote from: Ritana on August 18, 2017, 05:13:03 AM
I woke up this morning feeling down and depressed. I think being a ts is curse. Sorry girls!

Especially when we get down, there are times we all say this, I think. Mourn that experience, get pissed at it, whatever you have to do, then you do what we all do, move on, rise above it. Don't give an idiot the power to take away the good you feel about yourself. Kick his *ss by loving yourself.
Moni
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

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elkie-t

I bet the 'doctor' won't forget to send you a bill for his 'services'...


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amandam

Quote from: Ritana on August 18, 2017, 05:13:03 AM
I woke up this morning feeling down and depressed. I think being a ts is curse. Sorry girls!

Oh honey, I am so sorry <hug>. Forget him. He's a loser. No one should be a doctor without compassion for patients. There are so many good people who like you just as you are.
Out of the closet to family 4-2019
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TheDarkQueenEmily

I would punch him

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Chrissym

I totally feel your pain. I have had almost the same experience with a few doctors in Melbourne. Probably one of the worst was a female surgeon i contacted about a labiaplasty about 2 years post op SRS (mine arent that bad but I just wanted to see what my options were). As soon as she knew I was ts, she refused to see me as aparently i don't have labia... go figure....
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Laurie


Hi Chrissym,

  I'm Laurie and welcome to Susan's Place, the place some of us like to call home. I hope you will come to like it here too. Come on in!

Hey I see that you are new here. So please let me say, Welcome To Susan's Place! Come on in and take a good look around.  Perhaps I can even get you to hop on over to the Introductions Thread and create a post to tell us a little bit more about yourself so we can get to know you a little better and greet you properly.

  Also I'll add some links and information below that can help you get more out of our site.

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Things that you should read




April 13, 2019 switched to estradiol valerate
December 20, 2018    Referral sent to OHSU Dr Dugi  for vaginoplasty consult
December 10, 2018    Second Letter VA Psychiatric Practical nurse
November 15, 2018    First letter from VA therapist
May 11, 2018 I am Laurie Jeanette Wickwire
May   3, 2018 Submitted name change forms
Aug 26, 2017 another increase in estradiol
Jun  26, 2017 Last day in male attire That's full time I guess
May 20, 2017 doubled estradiol
May 18, 2017 started electrolysis
Dec   4, 2016 Started estradiol and spironolactone



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itsApril

Quote from: Ritana on August 18, 2017, 05:13:03 AM
I woke up this morning feeling down and depressed. I think being a ts is curse. Sorry girls!

Maybe so.  But being a woman is a gift and a treasure.
-April
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PhoenixGurl2016

Ugh, that is so disgusting. Girl you are beautiful. No matter what he told you, you have a vagina. Vaginas comes in all different, shape, sizes, depth, and even tissues. A gyno specializes in all forms of vaginas, not just CISginas.

PS. I hope you were able to find a proper Gyno.




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pretty pauline

Definitely should be reported, I wouldn't let him away with that. I never had a dreadful experience like that. But a few years ago I had to visit a gyno as I had a small problem down there and disclosed my history, he was a real gentleman and was amazed and surprised I was trans, and said it was a new medical experience for him as he never treated a trans woman before, I was his first.I don't usually disclose unless it's necessary.
If your going thru hell, just keep going.
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Charlie Nicki

Wow that is so...Ignorant. From what I've read, SRS gives trans women pretty much the same thing cis women have and any gynecologist should be able to work with it.

So sorry this happened to you.


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Latina :) I speak Spanish, English and a bit of Portuguese.
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Ritana



Thank you, girls. I'm over it now. We have to love ourselves and not expect validation from society.

Hugs,

Ritana
A post-op woman
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Kylo

#31
From a medical perspective, and as a former biologist -

what he said might have bothered you, but biologically speaking the epithelium and structure of your vagina is not going to be identical to that of a natal woman's and therefore you are not going to suffer the exact same range of issues they potentially suffer from and that a regular gynecologist is trained to treat. Is it possible for a transwoman to get uterine fibroids in there, for example? I would imagine not - or if they can, they are not going to be of the uterine kind because there is no uterus to originate them. Are the sort of infections one might get there the same and are they treated the same? Is a transwoman as likely to develop cervical cancer on non-cervical epithelium? Transwomen are not going to experience menstruation issues. And so on. Some aspects may be the same for both cis and transwomen but many will not be. Some gyns might never have been advised on any issue relating to transgender women's vaginas. If I were a doctor who had not received this training - and I will be perfectly honest here - I would not be confident in treating you until I got that training or was at least advised on the similarity in ailments between the groups ciswomen and transwomen and efficacy of treatment of the latter via the manner of the former. Otherwise I would be "guessing", possibly putting my trans patient at risk.

Taking offense at this sort of thing is potentially seriously counterproductive - you must acknowledge the medical difference to some degree between oneself and a natal woman for your own safety, and I would expect the gynecologist to do so as well - it's his job. Reporting him or trying to get him fired or some such is only going to deprive other women of a health professional and put the man on the dole. Is that productive?

All these comments wanting him reported, punched etc - how does this help? Was the man actually rude or was he acknowledging his inexperience in the realm of treating transgender individuals, because frankly if I were in your position I'd rather the man did this than treated me without expertise or on an assumption, and then I would try to contact another such professional with more experience or one willing to look into the matter for me. Technically what he stated was correct, if you were born male you do not have uterine and cervical tissue, you have different tissue in there, and what that tissue is is going to depend on where your vagina was sourced from on your body. If I went to a urologist for a check up and they told me they didn't know how to deal with transmen's penises I would understand and appreciate the warning not rage and think about getting them fired. I would if they were abjectly rude and dishonest in their manner but what he stated was not untrue if indeed you had penile inversion as your method of forming your vagina, and perhaps he thought it was the best way he could be upfront about his inexperience. Rather than walking out you perhaps could have asked for his advice on whom to see about your problems and he may have had a recommendation. Each medical professional is different and makes judgements in their own way. Just last week I dealt with one who said he didn't feel qualified to deal with my specific problem and referred me to a medical practice that would. I am glad he did, and didn't go ahead treating me for something he was not confident in dealing with, because he might have screwed up the treatment.

It's going to take some time for the medical field to catch up with both the number of people knowledgeable in our issues and problems and for the list of our specific ailments to be better consolidated because there seems to be an exponential number of trans people coming forward for treatment and very few doctors with specialist knowledge of us. We will have to be patient.

I have no intention of keeping my history from doctors if I require any serious or invasive procedures, as that will only potentially threaten my life if they are unaware of the fact I do or do not have certain organs and requirements relating to my trans condition. To those who suggest never telling your medical professional what your real situation is, I would suggest you are advising people to put themselves in danger. Of course not all visits to the doctor will require disclosure, but to suggest someone never does, especially for a serious/related condition or problem, I think that is highly irresponsible and could potentially lead to the worst.

By all means be irritated if someone has properly disrespected you, but to state medical or biological truth is not disrespectful, nor is it to claim inexperience in an area. Which is what this sounds like it was. If he was truly a bigot I imagine he'd have had much more to say on the matter and thrown in a few actual jibes. As you tell it, it sounds like he complimented you, and made apparent his lack of knowledge or admission of his thinking there was some other specialist you should be seeing rather than him for the treatment. We really ought to be honest with the state of affairs regarding trans treatment - i.e. we need more proactive back and forth between ourselves and doctors and work toward solving the issue, not being offended because they don't know enough yet or aren't quite sure how to deal with us.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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xFreya

I think op is over this now but generally speaking, while a trans woman cannot have all the potential problems a cis woman can, most vaginal problems she could have should be familiar to a gynecologist I think?

Regardless if the doctor says something like "I don't have any experience with this so I'm afraid I may not be qualified to treat you" and maybe refer her to someone it should be perfectly okay, saying "you have an inverted penis" is just rude and not even entirely true.

I imagine if it was a cis woman who was born with MRKH and had vaginoplasty the doctor wouldn't be acting the same.
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Kylo

If a urologist said to me "you don't have a real penis" or "since you don't have an actual penis", that would not be what I wanted to hear but it would be true. I would not have a biological male's penis with all the exact functioning of one.

That said, depending on the issue I went in for he may or may not be able to treat me. If I was going in for some erectile difficulty his ability to help might be very limited. If I was going in for some treatment regards a UTI of the urethra or kidney issues there might well be lots of common ground there and he could help me. It depends on the issue I went in for, doesn't it?

What he said belies his inexperience. In that I wouldn't be offended. I doubt an actual bigot would bother to compliment a transwoman on her femininity, as the doctor did to the OP. 
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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xFreya

The doctor says he would never have guessed, we don't know if it was actually meant as a compliment.

And the doctor didnt say he personally doesnt have experience with this, he's saying it shouldnt be a gynecologist's job to treat a trans woman, in a patronizing and rude way too. Whose job should it be? Despite some tissue differences it's the same organ with mostly same functions with often same possible problems and diagnostic tools and treatments. If any difference from a natal vagina becomes relevant then work with an SRS surgeon or more experienced gynecologist, but categorically denying trans patients from gynecology is just wrong.

If a doctor says "you dont have a real penis/vagina it is not just hurtful, it doesnt necessarily mean anything.

In a similar situation I would probably just walk out too.

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kelly_aus

Quote from: xFreya on November 18, 2017, 07:28:37 PM
The doctor says he would never have guessed, we don't know if it was actually meant as a compliment.

And the doctor didnt say he personally doesnt have experience with this, he's saying it shouldnt be a gynecologist's job to treat a trans woman, in a patronizing and rude way too. Whose job should it be? Despite some tissue differences it's the same organ with mostly same functions with often same possible problems and diagnostic tools and treatments. If any difference from a natal vagina becomes relevant then work with an SRS surgeon or more experienced gynecologist, but categorically denying trans patients from gynecology is just wrong.

If a doctor says "you dont have a real penis/vagina it is not just hurtful, it doesnt necessarily mean anything.

In a similar situation I would probably just walk out too.

As unfortunate as it sounds, the gyno was technically correct and whilst some issues will have similar sources and treatments, many of them wont - and some will be completely out of scope for a gyno. And no, they do not have the same function, nor are all the issues actually all the similar. I'd imagine a gyno would have some difficulty in diagnosing lichen sclerosus if it appeared in a neovagina, just as an example..

I know I'm taking an unpopular stance here, but I'm with the gyno.. I won't comment on what they said specifically, as we only have the OP's recount of the event, but he was being factually and medically correct. The OP's emotional response also did her no favours - or the rest of the community for that matter; she's just given the gyno a reason not to become educated on treating trans people.

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Karen_A

Quote from: kelly_aus on November 20, 2017, 06:37:13 PM
As unfortunate as it sounds, the gyno was technically correct and whilst some issues will have similar sources and treatments, many of them wont - and some will be completely out of scope for a gyno. And no, they do not have the same function, nor are all the issues actually all the similar. I'd imagine a gyno would have some difficulty in diagnosing lichen sclerosus if it appeared in a neovagina, just as an example..


Many? Really? I think such conditions would be rare...

Most common issues with post-ops are yeast infections, UTI's (my GP prefers all his female patients go to a gyn for those), and vaginal tears...

And for the uncommon ones, what type of doctor would be any better,  as well as have the experience with the more common types of vaginal issues a post-op might have?

I had to look up lichen sclerosus.

From the Mayo Clinic website:
Quote
Lichen sclerosus can affect skin anywhere on your body. But it most often involves skin of the vulva, foreskin of the penis or skin around the anus.

So a gyn should be familiar with the condition. even if not inside of a vagina...

We are simply NOT that unique medically if one thinks about it ... 

That said, in general we can get by with just GPs... but if I had a vaginal tear I would MUCH rather have a gyn deal with it than a GP.

- Karen


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SadieBlake

Kelly, Victor I'm sorry ignorance is hardly any excuse for unprofessional and insulting behavior on the part of an MD.

And thank you Viktor, no need to compound the ignorance of this doc by putting forward your incorrect assumptions about the difference between vaginal and penile skin. In fact the only difference in the vaginal lining is that in natal females that skin responds to estrogen and produces some lubrication. It's still skin and it's healthy state is the same, i.e. colonized by microflora consisting of primarily lactobacillus.

Furthermore most gyns would have patients with vaginal agenisis, a condition that most gyns will in fact encounter as it's incidence is about 1:2000 population. Vaginoplasty for these natal women is fundamentally similar to GCS

I'm lucky enough to be treated with respect and compassion by all of the medical professionals I have worked with. That should be a given. MDs aren't in fact minor deities and yes some are ignorant and some are rude. The rudeness reported by the OP remains inexcusable.

As Karen says, we are not that unique,we are fundamentally similar to natal females and deserve to be treated as such.
🌈👭 lesbian, troublemaker ;-) 🌈🏳️‍🌈
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Jacelyn

Quote from: SadieBlake on November 21, 2017, 08:06:33 PM
Kelly, Victor I'm sorry ignorance is hardly any excuse for unprofessional and insulting behavior on the part of an MD.

And thank you Viktor, no need to compound the ignorance of this doc by putting forward your incorrect assumptions about the difference between vaginal and penile skin. In fact the only difference in the vaginal lining is that in natal females that skin responds to estrogen and produces some lubrication. It's still skin and it's healthy state is the same, i.e. colonized by microflora consisting of primarily lactobacillus.

Furthermore most gyns would have patients with vaginal agenisis, a condition that most gyns will in fact encounter as it's incidence is about 1:2000 population. Vaginoplasty for these natal women is fundamentally similar to GCS

I'm lucky enough to be treated with respect and compassion by all of the medical professionals I have worked with. That should be a given. MDs aren't in fact minor deities and yes some are ignorant and some are rude. The rudeness reported by the OP remains inexcusable.

As Karen says, we are not that unique,we are fundamentally similar to natal females and deserve to be treated as such.

I support the view of Kelly and Victor. Stating a medical fact is not an insult. There is no similarity between the female reproduction system and those of male. In the case of transwoman, the male reproductive system is no longer intact except the skin along with some nervous tissues are the only thing left. This fact does not make the transwoman similar to the cis woman, even on the part of the neo vagina, the skin type are different and so is the various complex mechanism associated with it. This does not include the complexity of the cis woman's reproduction system as a whole which to the transwoman are either a void or of a male counterpart which function in different way. Some of the symptoms for both are different, and so the treatment is supposed to be different.

Personally I am not falling for neo vagina (with no disrespect for those who did) but I am considered myself a transwoman. When it involved a medical visit, I don't mind exposing myself as a male in order to receive the correct treatment.
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Jailyn

Actually this doctor is wrong. We all start out in the womb as female and as the testosterone affects our body our clit grows and the lips fuse together. So technically we all have the same parts down there. so poop on him and his ugly comment!!!!
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