Hi everyone. A while back I did a post about a 16 year old transgirl named Briana who had come into work to get her hair done. I text her and we talk on the phone a lot. So she and her mom were talking and her mom told her not to try dating boys yet, that she wasn't far enough along for that. Briana told her she wouldn't and that she didn't like guys sexually, she was attracted to girls. She said her mom got really upset. She told her she thought she was serious about transitioning and doing hrt. Briana told her she was totally serious about it. Her mom told her she wasn't going through the stress and expense of her transition so she could be a lesbian.  She told her if she liked girls then she needed to stay a boy and it would be stupid to go through hrt and Grs if she was going to be with girls. I totally don't understand her mom's reaction. She can accept a trans child but not a lesbian one?? That makes no sense to me at all!

There are cis people who are gay. There are cis women who aren't feminine and there are cis men who aren't masculine. So why do people think transpeople should be gender stereotypes?  A MtF is expected to be feminine and like men. A FtM is expected to me super masculine and like women. Cis people aren't necessarily expected to adhere to gender stereo types so why are we?

My random thought:

It's part of the misunderstanding about why people transition. They don't understand it is almost always an issue of internal image, whereas sexual orientation is almost always an external projection. (How we see ourselves, versus how we see others.)

If you don't understand that internal drive, that fundamental desire for self, it's hard to separate it from the external facets of gender(in this case, which gender you are sexually attracted to).

I have an essay about this in the works.  I can't post it because the program that checks for plagiarism might catch it, and then fail me.

Long essay short:

People have a hard time blending what they see externally with what one feels internally.  They, often, perceive a MtF person as gay, and can't get that out of their mind.  Thus, they expect that a transwoman would date a man.  They are conflating homosexuality with ->-bleeped-<-.

You have the standard gender identity and sexual preference are two separate issues. Gender identity is male or female and sexual preference can be heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual and asexual. This is a memory I have from about 1979 when we discussed it in my therapy group. In my case, I am asexual to which some might ask why bother if your not going to be sexually active? The answer is it was never about being sexually active. It was all about who I am.

Short version - I refer to myself as a "lesbian trapped in a man's body". I am sexually attracted to women, and I want to be one myself. Just because I want to be a woman doesn't mean I suddenly like guys.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

Quote from: Julia1996 on November 22, 2017, 09:08:20 PMShe can accept a trans child but not a lesbian one?? That makes no sense to me at all!

Yes, that is it.

People who have an aversion to gays and lesbians can can rationalize a trans person transitioning.  If the trans person is attracted to others of their natal sex, they figure that transitioning is acceptable in order to avoid being gay..  It simply doesn't occur to them (or they reject the thought) that someone might transition to be more fully authentic.

By telling her mother that she is attracted to girls, not boys, she is taking away her mother's only rationalization for acceptance.

It can be hard for cis people to understand the difference in what gender truely means. To many, gender and sexual attraction are fused. They don't get gay people so trans people are more outside their realm of experience.

For some like your friends mom, she thinks that helping her daughter transition was so she could live with a man and not be seen as gay. Her mom does not understand that quite simply our minds are wired with certain thinking patterns and instincts that make us female or male and that is completely seperate from our sexual attraction wiring.

Perhaps if she can show her mom an explaination she could come to understand it. I have a ton of really scientific information but it is beyond a lot of people's understanding as well.

Maybe her mom will just think about it if she explains it like this:

Our mind's gender is formed in the second trimester of life. Our brains form in female or male patterns by then. The way we think, the way we feel emotion are all "hard wired" in us by then. There are deep instincts that cannot be undone. Desires of socialization with others that are very different between genders. This is seperate from sexual attraction.
Sexual attraction is set toward the end of the third trimester. This is what makes us find masculine or feminine body forms attractive to us.

From some one who grew up when people left me no choice but to conform, I can say that trying to fit in with  boys and men never felt right. The way they think and feel doesn't make sense. Have your friend give her mom this info if she wants it. Ask her mom to consider the way it feels when she is the only woman standing around with a bunch of male coworkers, except imagine not only the feeling of exclusion from the conversation but also what guys say when there are no limits. When they see no women around for them to be concerned about insulting.
It does does not feel very good most of the time. Then often women exclude you from their conversations because they see a man not another woman. This is even more painful because what limited female conversation you do get included in leaves you feeling good inside. So it is a life of feeling excluded and lonely. Simple things like friendship are hard to come by. Then there is that constant nagging feeling that you are supposed to be different. I fought this for so many years. The deep background anxiety. The wrong hormone for your brain's wiring creates a sensation that is impossible to describe to those who have not suffered it. We use the word "dysphoria" because it means the opposite of content or happiness. Tell her mom to imagine this for a lifetime, this never ending mental anguish.
I liken it to my conciseness having to operate in way that my brain's operating system was not designed for. Every day is another day of faking it. Doing it because of fear of being real, a fear of others discovering the real thoughts and feelings in my mind. Always having to hide my emotions because guys don't feel the same ways and guys don't ever cry. It is a life of internal torment. This is what awaits the life of a trans person who has to hide who they are. I did this for 40 years myself.

Please copy this and give it to your friend. Tell her she is free to share this with her mom. Maybe, just maybe, this will make her mom understand. I just can't stand by while a young transgender person on is forced into this same suffering my life was. Share this freely with anyone you meet whose family is on the fence about supporting their person in transition. If the person knows they need it, then believe them. It is real.

Josie

You can be straight or gay and be transgender, what you identify your gender with as you are born that way is different than sexual orientation which you are born being straight, gay, or bisexual as well. Just because you are a trans girl doesn't mean you have to like guys, that's like saying a woman can't be a lesbian and absolutely HAS to like men. If you are trans, you're a trans because you feel you are the gender that your body does not dictate, born in the wrong body sort of speak so many go through transition to have a more female body but it really has nothing to do with sexual preference. I personally like both, I'm bisexual though I've dated way more women even though deep inside myself i am a girl.

So that girl's mom is a tad bit confused on this.

I did a recent presentation on "What is Gender: Beyond the Binary" which is intended for viewing by family, friends, and allies of transgender persons.

The presentation addresses the many facets of gender and its determination beyond the traditional male/female binary, including some basic broadly accepted definitions, and some of the recent science regarding medical discoveries on transgender persons.

Briana and her mom may find this useful. The presentation and handouts directly address the issues they are having.

The video of the presentation and Q&A session is available for public use.   I've attached the video links to YouTube and a link to the handouts for the presentation.

And yes, I did put in a big plug for Susan's Place.   

Presentation Handouts (PDF. 1.5 Mb)

Quote from: Julia1996 on November 22, 2017, 09:08:20 PM
Hi everyone. A while back I did a post about a 16 year old transgirl named Briana who had come into work to get her hair done. I text her and we talk on the phone a lot. So she and her mom were talking and her mom told her not to try dating boys yet, that she wasn't far enough along for that. Briana told her she wouldn't and that she didn't like guys sexually, she was attracted to girls. She said her mom got really upset. She told her she thought she was serious about transitioning and doing hrt. Briana told her she was totally serious about it. Her mom told her she wasn't going through the stress and expense of her transition so she could be a lesbian.  She told her if she liked girls then she needed to stay a boy and it would be stupid to go through hrt and Grs if she was going to be with girls. I totally don't understand her mom's reaction. She can accept a trans child but not a lesbian one?? That makes no sense to me at all!

There are cis people who are gay. There are cis women who aren't feminine and there are cis men who aren't masculine. So why do people think transpeople should be gender stereotypes?  A MtF is expected to be feminine and like men. A FtM is expected to me super masculine and like women. Cis people aren't necessarily expected to adhere to gender stereo types so why are we?

Because, at best, a lot of folks are ignorant and never question their beliefs and indoctrination. There are a lot of stupid folks too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

People in general, and parents especially, have varying degrees of mental inertia when asked to change their worldview.  Briana's mother might just need more information and to give the matter more thought.  The OP itself gives a lucid and logical argument for Briana's case.

Quote from: Julia1996 on November 22, 2017, 09:08:20 PM
Hi everyone. A while back I did a post about a 16 year old transgirl named Briana who had come into work to get her hair done. I text her and we talk on the phone a lot. So she and her mom were talking and her mom told her not to try dating boys yet, that she wasn't far enough along for that. Briana told her she wouldn't and that she didn't like guys sexually, she was attracted to girls. She said her mom got really upset. She told her she thought she was serious about transitioning and doing hrt. Briana told her she was totally serious about it. Her mom told her she wasn't going through the stress and expense of her transition so she could be a lesbian.  She told her if she liked girls then she needed to stay a boy and it would be stupid to go through hrt and Grs if she was going to be with girls. I totally don't understand her mom's reaction. She can accept a trans child but not a lesbian one?? That makes no sense to me at all!

There are cis people who are gay. There are cis women who aren't feminine and there are cis men who aren't masculine. So why do people think transpeople should be gender stereotypes?  A MtF is expected to be feminine and like men. A FtM is expected to me super masculine and like women. Cis people aren't necessarily expected to adhere to gender stereo types so why are we?

Hmm, in my opinion its okay to be both transwoman and lesbian. ( i am also both). Being both transwomen and lesbian should be okay. Hope everything for Briana turns out good, and she can openly be both!