Quote from: SadieBlake on November 21, 2017, 08:06:33 PM
Kelly, Victor I'm sorry ignorance is hardly any excuse for unprofessional and insulting behavior on the part of an MD.

And thank you Viktor, no need to compound the ignorance of this doc by putting forward your incorrect assumptions about the difference between vaginal and penile skin. In fact the only difference in the vaginal lining is that in natal females that skin responds to estrogen and produces some lubrication. It's still skin and it's healthy state is the same, i.e. colonized by microflora consisting of primarily lactobacillus.

Incorrect. The skin of a natal female vaginal passage is firstly a mucous membrane, not a cutaneous external epithelium, which penile shaft skin is, whether it be glabrous or not. The presence of hair follicles - whether the skin has had treatment prior to surgery to remove it or not - on the inside of the neovagina is further evidence this is not the same kind of skin; mucosal membranes do not have hair follicles and no laser treatment or any other kind of treatment renders the outer penile skin directly analogous to a vaginal mucous membrane. Nor does prolonged inversion render the outer skin a vaginal mucous membrane.

Vaginal mucous membrane is thinner, non-keratinized squamous tissue, contains a high number of secretory cells, connections to internal muscles and a rich blood supply from vaginal arteries. It is capable of secreting various kinds of mucus of relatively acidic pH and varying in consistency corresponding to ovulation and periods of non-ovulation, which may facilitate or block sperm passage respectively. The elasticity of the vaginal membrane is considerable given it has to stretch to accommodate a child's head.

Vaginas made from colons have more in common with the vaginal mucosa, but even those do not have the same specialized functions of vaginal tissues. All skin is not "just skin". Mucous membrane is immediately more permeable to substances and easier to perforate, which is why most types of medication are strictly divided into those that can be used on outer epithelium only, and those designed to be used on mucosal tissue.

Please, do not assume I don't know jack about this subject. I've been a biology academic and worked in medicine for several years.   

Obviously a vagina constructed from penile skin or colon is not necessarily an inadequate structure unless you desire childbirth of course, and I will not imply that it is - but the attributes and capabilities of this skin differ in physiology and pathology particulars.

Quote from: Complete on November 22, 2017, 10:47:44 PM
Karen.  I hope you are not arguing that a neovagina is anything like a normal female one. The differences go beyond the abbreviated quote you are using.

What i am saying is that the differences PRACTICALLY are not that significant in terms of most medical care when comparing a gg who has had a total hysterectomy a and post-op.

The times it would matter are rare, and in those cases there is not likely to be an in network doctor that would be better than a good gyn anyway.

I quoted that part of what Jacelyn said for a reason... I asked her about the differences between a post-op and  post hysterectomy gg and what she FIRST  starts off on is hormone production!!!

To me that says she is likely a militant non-op (at least for herself) and is PRIMARILY justifying her own decision not to have SRS ...something she need not do.

No point in having a discussion about the PRACTICAL aspects of getting medical care and which type of MD is best for a post-op MTF with such a person...

- Karen

Sorry Viktor, I take the word of my surgeon, referenced in one of my posts a few pages back.

You want a relevant experience pissing contest? 35 years split between medical device and pharma, I've been designing devices for 30 years, been in numerous ORs observing and advising surgeons on the use of products I designed. The surgeon who performed my GCS has used technology I developed.

It's a shame someone with 8 -10 years of higher education is not smart enough to understand the ins and outs of science advancements and discoveries. You should not have to retrain them and you were right to walk out.

Quote from: SadieBlake on November 23, 2017, 10:38:18 AM
Sorry Viktor, I take the word of my surgeon, referenced in one of my posts a few pages back.

You want a relevant experience pissing contest? 35 years split between medical device and pharma, I've been designing devices for 30 years, been in numerous ORs observing and advising surgeons on the use of products I designed. The surgeon who performed my GCS has used technology I developed.

And yet you don't seem to know or care about the clear difference of form and function between cutaneous epithelium and mucosal membrane. You would not particularly want mucosa on the outside of your body because it is not the "just skin" you would need for the job. Hopefully I never have to call on anyone you advised for any skin grafts, eh?

You are the one who has been making the pointed personal remarks here.

Quote from: xFreya on November 23, 2017, 04:33:44 AM
No offense but it almost sounds like you decided not to get SRS for whatever reason (which is perfectly fine) and are reminding yourself reasons why a "neo vagina" is bad. But a lot of these aren't true or not very relevant here.

Edit: I decided I don't even want to continue this debate. If I wanted to read and answer to stuff about how SRS is "medically unethical" and how trans women should be categorically denied from gynecological services because they are completely their birth sex, or beautiful things like "an intercourse with a neo vagina is matter of purely creating fiction between the surface of of two penile skin of two persons" I would go to youtube comment section or something, not a trans forum.

Bravo!

Quote from: Jacelyn on November 23, 2017, 07:26:56 AM

"The very high rates of subjective satisfaction and the surgical outcomes indicate that gender reassignment surgery is beneficial. These findings must be interpreted with caution, however, because fewer than half of the questionnaires were returned." c.f. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4261554/

We need to question the standard of treatment that involved SRS:

"Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. " c.f. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

A half assed study from Germany where they're not particularly known for their great surgical work where most of those sent questionnaires didn't even respond. Ummkay? And the so called Swedish study that Cecilia Dhejne herself said the results have been misinterpreted don't do much to sway my opinion.

Perhaps you should read this well referenced article, a snippet of which is quoted below: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/myths-about-transition-regrets_b_6160626.html

QuoteSurgical regret is actually very uncommon. Virtually every modern study puts it below 4 percent, and most estimate it to be between 1 and 2 percent (Cohen-Kettenis & Pfafflin 2003, Kuiper & Cohen-Kettenis 1998, Pfafflin & Junge 1998, Smith 2005, Dhejne 2014). In some other recent longitudinal studies, none of the subjects expressed regret over medically transitioning (Krege et al. 2001, De Cuypere et al. 2006).

The rest of what you've written is not really worthy of a response because while it may sound good to you, you really lack the experience to know what the hell you're talking about and half of what you've claimed sounds like anti-trans propaganda. You're certainly entitled to your views and opinions but I don't believe they have much relevance in this discussion.

Quote from: Karen_A on November 23, 2017, 09:18:05 AM
To me that says she is likely a militant non-op (at least for herself) and is PRIMARILY justifying her own decision not to have SRS ...something she need not do.

I got the same impression as well. I have no problems with a person doing whatever works for them but when it comes to telling someone else what their experience is or should be or is proselytizing that their way is somehow superior, then I've got issues.

QuoteNo point in having a discussion about the PRACTICAL aspects of getting medical care and which type of MD is best for a post-op MTF with such a person...

Agreed.

Glad to see we're all still worried about the O/P....

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