Obvious answer is yes but wanted to hear how you'd handle this situation.

So after working one year now at a job I dislike I desperately want a change. My current work is not something I've wanted to do long term anyway. So to look at all my options as I have no clue what career would suit me; I've referred myself to a charity which helps people with mental health issues find work (I still have some social anxiety and depression although it's improved somewhat recently). My appointment is next Tuesday which will most likely be a general discussion on what I can and can't do and what my options are. So I'm unsure how to casually mention I'm nb and go by they/them pronouns. It's extremely unlikely they've met a binary trans person let alone a nb one. So on the one hand it'd be best they know straight away so they can tell future employers to lesson the awkwardness;  then again I'm going to have a huge amount of awkwardness and confusion by a stranger at the charity.

To think of having a job where I'm going to be in the closet again makes my anxiety worse but I don't want to be seen as different or treated differently. Maybe I can just suck it up better being called male if I am doing a job I enjoy or maybe gradually I'll have another anxiety episode in future.

Any have a similar experience? Thanks for all advice and opinions.

Btw I haven't disclosed I'm trans at my current job; they've always known me as male

If I were you, I'd just mention when whoever is interviewing me (for the new job you're thinking about applying for) asks for my name, "btw I self identify as non-binary trans..."

You should never really put your gender on a resume or CV so that shouldn't be a problem when applying for a job.

Other than that, it's really down to who interviews you. If that person seems confused about you identifying as non-binary trans (and questions you about this), you could just explain to them that gender is a social construct and you don't feel comfortable identifying within the gender binary. You can also say why exactly you need to be non-binary trans(using the pronouns you feel comfortable w).

Quote from: daltoid37 on November 07, 2017, 02:57:45 AM
If I were you, I'd just mention when whoever is interviewing me (for the new job you're thinking about applying for) asks for my name, "btw I self identify as non-binary trans..."

You should never really put your gender on a resume or CV so that shouldn't be a problem when applying for a job.

Other than that, it's really down to who interviews you. If that person seems confused about you identifying as non-binary trans (and questions you about this), you could just explain to them that gender is a social construct and you don't feel comfortable identifying within the gender binary. You can also say why exactly you need to be non-binary trans(using the pronouns you feel comfortable w).

Thanks for your help . In the end the charity thing was in an open office so couldn't come out. Am referred to a volunteering centre so not sure whether I can out then or if if I shouldn't bother.

Yeah I guess if I get a job interview I should just bite the bullet and come out. But I'm not out as nb so the thought petrifies me :/.

I just wish we lived in a world that doesn't assume our gender based on looks.

Was signing on today and they didn't even have an option for mx under social title; but included things like dame and lord; like how does that make sense?!

I'm going through a similar situation. I desperately need to find a new job/career but I'm petrified of doing anything. I just started transitioning mtf and it's a tough road ahead. I need to get in contact with LGBT places specifically for this issue and maybe that would be helpful for you too? To start at least until you build more confidence around your identity to branch out into the general public.


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Quote from: Elis on November 07, 2017, 05:18:10 AM
Thanks for your help . In the end the charity thing was in an open office so couldn't come out. Am referred to a volunteering centre so not sure whether I can out then or if if I shouldn't bother.

Yeah I guess if I get a job interview I should just bite the bullet and come out. But I'm not out as nb so the thought petrifies me :/.

I just wish we lived in a world that doesn't assume our gender based on looks.

Was signing on today and they didn't even have an option for mx under social title; but included things like dame and lord; like how does that make sense?!

No problem, anything surrounding your identity and telling people about your personal identity can be scary. The lord and dame thing makes no sense, but that just tells you how far the gender binary can be enforced.

I am currently nb trans, (and I don't have to apply for jobs yet) but my school has binary bathrooms, which are annoying and it's hard (and mostly scary as I'm not entirely out yet) to get students/teachers/prof. to call me by they/them. So I understand how life can be horrible sometimes, but you shouldn't let that get you down.

I think if you feel that coming out at the voluntary center will make you happy, do it.

I get that you're in the UK and things are legally and culturally different there than the US. But when I had to resort to a similar charity to find work, they strongly, repeatedly advised us not to disclose either our disability or our trans status until after we had a written job offer. That way you won't be discriminated against for either, and you won't have to put yourself through coming out to complete strangers for potentially no reason.

Your pronouns aren't relevant to your ability to do the job, so it's not like you're being deceptive. Even if you have a different preferred name, it's understandable why a person would apply and interview under their legal one.

Hi Elis,

It's a bit late now admittedly but I'd say if you felt comfortable enough (i.e not an open office) then it's worth coming out, if only to educate the person you're dealing with*. I feel like personally, the biggest issue I've had about telling people I'm non binary is that they tend to forget very quickly and just reassume binary pronouns and behaviour (in my case to assume I'm female because alas no hormones) which can be irritating but doesn't exactly extend to bullying type behaviour or discrimination (unless you count ignorance) so to me there isn't a massive downside to coming out. Of course I don't deny that once people get more 'informed' about non binary identities they will be more likely to be outwardly discriminatory or hostile (as they might be towards binary trans people) even though they may also be more likely to be accepting or understanding. Funny how that works :/

I feel like the biggest hurdle for me, being non binary in a workplace environment, is the fact that people don't even acknowledge it so personally I would want to make a point of mentioning it. Also, if you work somewhere every day and are getting constantly misgendered then I feel like that would make the job very unpleasant. I may be too sensitive though... I appreciate that if male pronouns are somewhat acceptable to you in certain circumstances that it would be a price worth paying for privacy in that regard.

Have you been to the volunteer agency yet? How did that go?

*eta: obviously anxiety/general mental argh can make coming out difficult or unwanted for a number of reasons and not meaning to belittle that. I also have brain gremlins that make me want to stealth it and that's ok!

Quote from: mischief_brew on November 26, 2017, 04:51:47 AM
Hi Elis,

It's a bit late now admittedly but I'd say if you felt comfortable enough (i.e not an open office) then it's worth coming out, if only to educate the person you're dealing with*. I feel like personally, the biggest issue I've had about telling people I'm non binary is that they tend to forget very quickly and just reassume binary pronouns and behaviour (in my case to assume I'm female because alas no hormones) which can be irritating but doesn't exactly extend to bullying type behaviour or discrimination (unless you count ignorance) so to me there isn't a massive downside to coming out. Of course I don't deny that once people get more 'informed' about non binary identities they will be more likely to be outwardly discriminatory or hostile (as they might be towards binary trans people) even though they may also be more likely to be accepting or understanding. Funny how that works :/

I feel like the biggest hurdle for me, being non binary in a workplace environment, is the fact that people don't even acknowledge it so personally I would want to make a point of mentioning it. Also, if you work somewhere every day and are getting constantly misgendered then I feel like that would make the job very unpleasant. I may be too sensitive though... I appreciate that if male pronouns are somewhat acceptable to you in certain circumstances that it would be a price worth paying for privacy in that regard.

Have you been to the volunteer agency yet? How did that go?

*eta: obviously anxiety/general mental argh can make coming out difficult or unwanted for a number of reasons and not meaning to belittle that. I also have brain gremlins that make me want to stealth it and that's ok!

Thanks for the reply . I think I'm getting to the point now that even though being seen as male and cis is easier; it makes social interactions and how I feel internally much more difficult.
So even though I'm aware that people may slip up I might be more comfortable regardless as I'm seen as my true gender. At least I know of some good articles to give to my future employer to help them understand.  I think the problem mainly is that nb is depicted in the media as being a fashion or political choice; rather than something people feel innately the same as a binary gender. People don't really get binary trans people but most are beginning to understand it's something they need to do rather than a whim. Just my rambling thoughts 

And unfortunately the talk I had with the woman at the volunteering agency was also held in an open office type environment  . But when I was given the firm to fill in I managed to somehow have the courage to ask if I could put my own box next to the male and female options. So a slight win I guess

I agree that people seem to not understand the non-binary experience (as in, assuming it is a political statement on gender stereotypes or suchlike as opposed to an intrinsic feeling that person experiences). I know that some people choose to use the label in that way but most don't, and it does mean that people assume there is generally no dysphoria experienced by calling you the wrong pronouns or treating you like a binary male or female. Ah, much hand wringing.

Aaanyway, before I get lost down THAT rabbit hole... I think that it's good you can recognise how you would prefer things to be even if you aren't managing to necessarily put it in practice right now. Adding a box on the form was a definite win! That takes guts