Quote from: Viktor on December 06, 2017, 04:51:17 PM
Scientific studies on Bonobo Chimps would disagree. They have an even more sexually exploratative 'society' than humans do. They appear to have sex for greeting, bonding or passing the time purposes, not just dominance. They have same-sex sex all the time; they have far more sex than human beings on average and have incorporated it fully into regular social behavior.
I'm not sure where you're getting your surety about dominance from. I've seen female dogs trying to hump other female dogs in the manner of a male without any of the hallmarks of dominance behavior, but they were definitely in heat, and it only occurred when they were in heat, and not when they weren't. It certainly looked to me like they were just really damn horny, and they preferred this behavior with other female dogs over any male dogs present.
You'll find instances of complex sexual 'play' in almost all species considered highly intelligent. Including dolphins. This sounds to me like you're trying to distance human beings from the rest of the animal kingdom by claiming there's no such thing as complex sexual behavior comparable to that of humans in animals. You may not be aware of the number of studies racking up out there of animals being sighted - in the wild - engaging in complex sexual activity. But they're increasing. Humans are not as elevated from them as you might like, and animals are not necessarily as mechanical and "beast like" as you would expect.
Look Vicktor my whole point was that we should not be looking for answers of who and what we are. I see it in wild wolf packs all the time and dogs especially females will challenge the female alpha but not for pleasure. Hell it may itch even.

But in pack animals there is an alpha male and an alpha female. Hell I have a puppy and he was humping my male dog which is fixed the other day. Not for pleasure because the little lipstick did not even come out and the older dog is fixed but he is seeing what he can get away with in canid behavior. Once the older dog got enough then they went at it and the puppy came to me yelping. It is the same way with the older male and I have an older female and both are fixed yet they will hump one another but being fixed what pleasure can they have?
This is a highly debateable subject and I admit I don't live in a place where there are primates other than humans so I don't know too much about Chimpanzees but still do we need justification to love someone? The sensual thing seems to be with more social animals so dolphins ususally congregate in pods and have a certain type of hierarchy. It is the same way with primates I assume. Man is a primate yet we have enough intelligence and I have been screwed so many times in day to day life but not sexual though or anything resembling sex but I have been screwed our of money employers, screwed out of promotions and so on. I have been hit, cursed, condemned and persecuted. That is why I chose to tdo what I do for a living because I got so sick of being screwed out of money. Well animals don't have money they use brute strength and dominance. So yeah I tend to believe that studies like what you mentioned seem to be trying to justify loving your partner and pointing to nature. The other side uses the same argument that I do against it and loving your partner as being a crime against nature. I personally think we as humans are more complicated than animals. We are still animals but I have never seen a chimpanzee drive a car on the 405.
To be totally honest if there are animals that are homosexual I really don't care. If there are then there are. But I don't need it for affirmation to love someone that some other human may say goes against nature. Since when did love either for one day or forever a "crime against nature"? I mean even for a one night stand you feel emotions for the person. It may not last for more than whatever but even with what I have done there was some type of emotion. I have been with my BF for almost ten years so definitely there is something there and I don't really need to feel justified by nature because if someone don't like it or is offended by it then they know what they can kiss and where they can go and what they can do with themselves when they get there

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But when you look at studies you also have to look at agendas to either prove or disprove something. Since there are studies that are so differing I do believe that one side of the argument is trying to prove something and the other side trying to disprove something.
But to be honest I don't really care. I am who and what I am and just because I am I am justified to be me. Now when it comes to anthropology then we can begin to understand why humans do what they do. But I am no animal psychic, may just a psychotic human but still not psychic so I don't know what dogs are thinking. I don't even know if they feel love the same way as we do and that goes for all animals. The whole religion thing and society is what gets me. We should not look anywhere else other than ourselves to be who we are. We should not have to look for any kind of justification because throughout human history there have been homosexuals, trans genders and hermaphrodites. In some ancient cultures Hermaphrodites were considered special. I mean Hermes and Aphrodite. Male and female in the same body. Now it is called inter sexed. Not near as elegantly named but still the same. Native Americans had MTF in their midst and would be taken as wives. About the sex I really don't know if the warrior had sex with them but they were revered enough if their husband died they would be taken in as another wife by another warrior or higher up in the tribe after they did their grieving like any other wife. Joan of Arc was a great warrior or leader but when she/he or whatever was of no more use the Church decided to end her/his life. Now she has been Canonized. So there is more through anthropology that supports sexuality and gender identity than you will ever find in the animal kingdom because we can understand the minds of humans more than chimps, wolves or dolphins. We should be looking for any proof through the ages of mankind instead of animals that can't even recognize their own face in a mirror.