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Work, manual labor, getting respect from cis male coworkers

Started by Pao, December 06, 2017, 07:15:23 AM

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Pao

Work is really triggering for me right now. I am only out to my supervisor. I am presenting as masculine female at the moment. I am a lead/super on my crew. I work my ass off, so it is not that I just run around telling people what to do. But every damn thing I say is in one ear and out the other. I will watch as people do exactly the opposite of what I say right after I tell them. The other lead tells them things and they immediately do it. How in the hell am I supposed to earn that respect.

It is frustrating and triggering because if I were cis these guys would listen...
  •  

Faith

unfortunately you cannot force respect. The only thing that works in this case would be an enforceable threat if they don't do the job as requested .. unpaid leave? firing? If that means the supervisor has to step in to enforce it, so be it. It won't help the respect part but it would get the job done.
I left the door open, only a few came through. such is my life.
Bluesky:@faithnd.bsky.social

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Kylo

That's assuming that all cis men get respect from other cis men. They don't.

But how are you asking them to do the job? Are you asking them/being polite or are you being authoritative? Are you chewing them out if they refuse, as that's what a supervisor's got to do when the peons don't do what they're supposed to. It's a fine line between being personable and being a supervisor or a boss as you still have to chew people out and yet not ruin your working relationships with them. I would say first off take nothing personally and be 100% professional about getting the job done as it is meant to be done - if they aren't doing it right or ignoring the orders then you need to pull them up about it, and have the backing of your own superiors if they continue to act up.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Pao

Thanks for the reply. You are going robably right. I just have been trying not to be the "chick" that runs to HR.
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Pao

i don't think all cis guys get respect. My boss is cis, but kinda fem and they do have t to him. I live in the Deep South USA and part of it is flat out misogyny. Part of it is if I ask nicely, I sometimes get listened to, if I am authoritative mostly I just get sulky pouting. All I have the authority to do is run to Eddie our boss, and that creates new problems. 
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Angela Drakken

Ive BEEN that 'guy' on site nobody listens to. Now Im that girl nobody listens to. My nickname now at work is the 'invisible girl.'

Before coming out though most of the animosity came from jealousy. Jealousy that the newbie on site not only was better qualified, higher paid, but ended up with more seniority and responsibility on site with the company in mere months than lifers did in years.

So yeah I was never popular from the get go.

All I can suggest is to remain the professional one, you never want to feed anyone amunition against YOU for an HR complaint. There is a fine line between authoritative and being a Rick with a 'P'.

(I know its hard when a bunch of frail egos just beg for the tongue lashing of the century and possibly a smack upside the head with a 2x4 but this sort of thing has gone the way of the Dodo bird with apprentice hazing..)

One of the most valuable habits I formed in a leadership role was documenting everything. EVERYTHING. Cross your Ts and dot your Is. This includes how your boss 'Eddie' handles things.
  •  

PurpleWolf


It's not your gender. It's your body language and lack of assertiveness. It has absolutely nothing to do with having a female voice, etc. either!

Step 1: Have a high self-esteem. Value yourself. Trust in yourself. Believe in yourself. You can do this!

Step 2: When you have good self-esteem you don't feel doubt, insecurity etc. You feel proud to be who you are - and are relaxed. This shows. That makes you radiate confidence around you.

Step 3: Body-language: This is THE most important thing!!! Even if you are not feeling it, try these things: always walk like you were a lot taller. Shoulders back. Walk straight. Smile. Or at least radiate confidence, good looks and that you feel good about yourself. This is TOTALLY 100% subconsicous - but when people sense you feel great about yourself, they'll listen to you.

Step 4: Don't whine. Don't ask. Tell.
Always be straight. Keep your voice calm and assertive. Don't yell. Never scream! Don't raise your voice.
As a matter of facly: I want you to do this. I need this done right now. I need help with this. You can go do that right now! Please hurry, that needs to be done by today!
You can be polite and friendly. But don't say things like you are asking a favor from them...! 'pleeeease, could you do this? I'd reaally need this done, if any way possible??' Don't do that!
Managing people is like managing children. You tell them what to do and they must respect you. But children don't respect you either if you yell or lose your temper. Or ask favors.

If they do not comply with your orders, calmly state there will be consequences.

But NEVER lose your cool!!! Trust me - they will listen if you follow these tips, 100%. In order for them to comply with your orders, you must first yourself BELIEVE they are going to. Expecting earns respect. Expect that they do. And they will.

If they give you attitude, be honest: I don't like that attitude.

Always remain straight, honest and somewhat polite but demanding.

One great tip: Express gratitude!!! Whenever they do a great job (or decent), say: that was great. I'm really impressed you got that done so fast. etc. But don't lie or sugar-coat things. People will respect you 100 times more when you show them you APPRECIATE what they are doing for you. As simple as that. A simple thanks can make someone's day. And when they feel respected by you (their manager) that means they are willing to work that extra mile to make you happy next time too,  ;). Absolutely guaranteed.

Respect earns respect.

Here are some great articles worth checking out:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/body-language
https://socialwork.buffalo.edu/content/dam/socialwork/home/self-care-kit/exercises/assertiveness-and-nonassertiveness.pdf
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/8-psychological-tips-for-being-more-confident-0318157

Most importantly - you are not their friend, you are their manager. So you do not need to feel awkward or ashamed to order them do things. It's your job. And their job is to comply.
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
  •  

PurpleWolf

!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
  •  

Pao

Quote from: PurpleWolf on December 07, 2017, 11:05:47 AM
It's not your gender. It's your body language and lack of assertiveness. It has absolutely nothing to do with having a female voice, etc. either!

Step 1: Have a high self-esteem. Value yourself. Trust in yourself. Believe in yourself. You can do this!

Step 2: When you have good self-esteem you don't feel doubt, insecurity etc. You feel proud to be who you are - and are relaxed. This shows. That makes you radiate confidence around you.

Step 3: Body-language: This is THE most important thing!!! Even if you are not feeling it, try these things: always walk like you were a lot taller. Shoulders back. Walk straight. Smile. Or at least radiate confidence, good looks and that you feel good about yourself. This is TOTALLY 100% subconsicous - but when people sense you feel great about yourself, they'll listen to you.

Step 4: Don't whine. Don't ask. Tell.
Always be straight. Keep your voice calm and assertive. Don't yell. Never scream! Don't raise your voice.
As a matter of facly: I want you to do this. I need this done right now. I need help with this. You can go do that right now! Please hurry, that needs to be done by today!
You can be polite and friendly. But don't say things like you are asking a favor from them...! 'pleeeease, could you do this? I'd reaally need this done, if any way possible??' Don't do that!
Managing people is like managing children. You tell them what to do and they must respect you. But children don't respect you either if you yell or lose your temper. Or ask favors.

If they do not comply with your orders, calmly state there will be consequences.

But NEVER lose your cool!!! Trust me - they will listen if you follow these tips, 100%. In order for them to comply with your orders, you must first yourself BELIEVE they are going to. Expecting earns respect. Expect that they do. And they will.

If they give you attitude, be honest: I don't like that attitude.

Always remain straight, honest and somewhat polite but demanding.

One great tip: Express gratitude!!! Whenever they do a great job (or decent), say: that was great. I'm really impressed you got that done so fast. etc. But don't lie or sugar-coat things. People will respect you 100 times more when you show them you APPRECIATE what they are doing for you. As simple as that. A simple thanks can make someone's day. And when they feel respected by you (their manager) that means they are willing to work that extra mile to make you happy next time too,  ;). Absolutely guaranteed.

Respect earns respect.

Here are some great articles worth checking out:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/body-language
https://socialwork.buffalo.edu/content/dam/socialwork/home/self-care-kit/exercises/assertiveness-and-nonassertiveness.pdf
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/8-psychological-tips-for-being-more-confident-0318157

Most importantly - you are not their friend, you are their manager. So you do not need to feel awkward or ashamed to order them do things. It's your job. And their job is to comply.

Forgive me, but I don't think you read my subsequent post. If you did then I should clarify.
1) I am confident  Horticulture is the thing I am most confident about.
2) I am extremely knowledgeable in my field.
3) I do in fact know quite a bit about managing people. I have a humanistic approach to management.

I specifically state that I KNOW that some of what is happening is down right misogyny.
1) this isn't new.
2) I have given every other idea about what's going on time and effort.
3) I am not someone who even likes to think about the fact that it IS misogyny, because that slaps me in the face with my transness.
4) On a daily basis I am constantly called "lady, girl, sweetie, cute" even when I have politely, assertively, and repeatedly asked to be called by my name. Even gone as far as to explain that the constant gendering was what I didn't like.
5) Guys that know my education and experience background repeatedly "tell me how to do something" I not only know, but know better than they do.
6) I have repeatedly had my blower, 50lbs bags of fertilizer and ice melt taken from my hands, "because a woman shouldn't lift that" "it's to heavy for you". My responses were "I got this." "No really I can handle it", "I need to do my job and you need to do yours", "Thanks,I will ask for help if I need it." "I signed up for this job, I signed up for this (activity)." And finally, "Do we need to go have a chat with Eddie about you letting me do my job"
7) my work is constantly praised my management, while every one else always seems to have issues with management. But they tell me how to do my job constantly.
8) I have been told how nice my legs are, how much one of my crew "cares" for me, but respects my marriage." My response was "I'd rather you respect me" "you really should not say things like that to me" I asked coworkers to speak to him, and I finally had to threaten to go to My boss.

I outline this, not to have a pitty party, but to outline that I understand management techniques, I am well aware of what assertiveness is, but that there is a great deal more going on. I am trying to figure out a work around that doesn't envolve running it up the chain.

I also have little to no ability to give any sort of consequences except going to management. I do not have write up power. So there really are no consequences for their actions.  If I call attention to it I literally get obstenance and sulking. I have literally had guys throw down rakes and walk off yelling "I'm done" when I want as far as to say "Please Don't Play in the sprinklers." My response was to ask if he had a car oblem with me as he had been rude to just me all morning. He responded by telling  me, that no he had no problems, and that throwing things and storming into ft were all in my head.

If I do go to my boss, I become the "one that tattle tales."

Also I do express gratitude. More than anyone else there.  But  has the be genuine. There is one guy that give compliments over ->-bleeped-<-ty work on a regular basis. I don't do that. When I work under that guy I knew he was blue wing smoke and I find that utterly distasteful.
  •  

PurpleWolf

OMG!!!!!!

I'm so sorry to hear that!!!

Please don't be offended by my general advice - I was just trying to help the best I could!

That situation does seem pretty bad indeed....!!! Can't figure out anything to say really.

I'm so sorry for you! That does sound very daunting indeed!

- Feel free to vent more if that makes you feel better -
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
  •  

PurpleWolf


I suppose you are doing your everything you possibly can....!!!!!!!! Wish I could help you somehow... Could you threaten them with firing or...  >:-)?

Man, there should be a way to establish some rules!!! And boundaries!

But please don't be offended if you felt my advice was useless. I just thought I'd share what I knew!

Maybe you should 'tattle tale' & get back-up from above? Maybe that'd teach them a lesson!!! There must be a way in a work environment to establish some grip over them & their behavior. I think you should do just that! You definitely deserve to be appreciated. Which is worse? Them thinking you are 'telling'? Or continuing that hell? There must be some way... If I were you, I'd contact the higher-ups, I think.
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
  •  

PurpleWolf

Quote from: Pao on December 08, 2017, 10:31:42 PM
I also have little to no ability to give any sort of consequences except going to management. I do not have write up power. So there really are no consequences for their actions.  If I call attention to it I literally get obstenance and sulking. I have literally had guys throw down rakes and walk off yelling "I'm done" when I want as far as to say "Please Don't Play in the sprinklers." My response was to ask if he had a car oblem with me as he had been rude to just me all morning. He responded by telling  me, that no he had no problems, and that throwing things and storming into ft were all in my head.ยด
You know what - go to management! That kind of behavior is NOT acceptable by any means!!! I think you should 'tattle tale' to your heart's content! You seem to be a very assertive person - so this may be the one thing you need to really exercise it in! DO NOT accept sulking & throwing stuff around! Be a pain in the ass! From now on - start reporting to management every thing like that! And they'll have consequences, I hope.

Obviously just being nice & assertive & having good team-spirit is not enough in this case!!! So exercise your right! And GO to management!!! Just be a dick (in their eyes). If they start fearing for their job, they'll probably start listening & changing their ways...

Also, any kind of misogyny/sexual harrassment/name calling should be punishable, right? By law, hopefully? Just be brave and go straight to your boss and be assertive there, for your own & your job's sake. I think this approach might be fruitful. They don't treat you well - so aside from being assertive and a good leader in general - don't let them get away with that anymore! Let them sulk! Let them throw tantrums! And when they do - report to your boss ASAP  >:-)! Don't let the fear of their 'attitude' or sulkiness towards you stop you from being assertive for your own sake!!!

I'm pretty sure that involving management will be a wake-up call for them! This is what I'd do! Just kick ass! And be brave! And assertive. Btw if your boss doesn't listen - be extra assertive & really demanding until he/she'll listen!!! It seems YOU CAN DO THIS  :laugh:!!! Most definitely!!!!!! Let them see you HAVE some real authority over them & aren't afraid to do whatever it takes to make them treat you well & comply!

Good luck,  ;)!

Keep us informed!

Hope that helped then   :D!

!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
  •  

PurpleWolf

Btw - they really seem to be pretty lousy workers if they have the nerve to sulk and throw things around! I can't imagine your boss finding that favorable either. Just be plain honest - and report EVERYTHING. Don't care if the workers think you are a dick. And don't care if your boss thinks either. You can start by actually writing down the date & occurence as an 'evidence' to your boss (and that they can't deny doing that afterwards).

GOOD LUCK! And start reporting!!! It's about a high time too!

--
It is plain obvious that they don't respect you! AT ALL!!! So that'll teach them some respect! Obviously they'll need to fear some consequences, otherwise they'll just slack off.
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
  •  

natalie.ashlyne

Well for me I am a union president, when going up to management when I was male they had some respect for me, and the members had respect for me, now still most of my members have respect for me( going in to election next month so I will find out.) Now managment has no respect for me. They try to walk all over me even thought it is the same problems as before.
  •  

PurpleWolf

Quote from: natalie.ashlyne on December 09, 2017, 04:15:35 AM
Well for me I am a union president, when going up to management when I was male they had some respect for me, and the members had respect for me, now still most of my members have respect for me( going in to election next month so I will find out.) Now managment has no respect for me. They try to walk all over me even thought it is the same problems as before.

Nasty to hear...
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
  •  

natalie.ashlyne

Quote from: PurpleWolf on December 09, 2017, 05:54:30 AM
Nasty to hear...

I am used to it see 90 percent to the members are female most them are good with me the 10 percent of the male members are good with me as well.  80 percent of management is male and the female management just pass everything of to the male management and that is the problem I have
  •  

Pao

Thanks y'all. I'll update with a longer post soon. The snowstorm really made my job get real, real quick.
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