I always knew my grandpa wasn't thrilled with me being trans but I thought he was begrudgingly accepting. Last night he made it clear he's not. He came over and said he wanted to talk to all three of us. He asked how long we intended to keep going with the bull ### about my mom not being allowed to come to our house and asked if we really intended to not let her come for Christmas.(no doubt my mom had called him) My dad told him it was out of his hands and that it was a matter for the court. My grandpa said it should never have become a legal thing because my mom hadn't done anything wrong. When my dad reminded him she had hit me his response was " so what"? He said parents hit their kids and there was nothing wrong with that. He said I had probably deserved it and that I was a little smart ass and he had wanted to smack me a few times himself. He said It was the only way kids learned anything. My dad told him he wasn't getting into that argument again.

He brought up the fact my dad isn't speaking to his brother and now it was his wife. He said that should tell him he's the problem not other people. He said him allowing me to transition was wrong and he shouldn't get upset when people told him so. Then he asked me how I thought it made him feel seeing me with another boy. He said watching him touch and kiss me was gross and perverted but that he didn't say that because sometimes you had to let things slide in the interest of the family and that's what I needed to do with my mom. My dad told him what my mother did was totally wrong and that he wouldn't let it slide.

Then he told my dad it was his fault I was trans. My dad asked him how it was his fault. He said my dad had always had an unnatural attachment to me and he hadn't acted like a father was supposed to. He said it wasn't natural for a father to take care of a baby exclusively and that it was totally weird for a father to walk around with a baby strapped to his chest. (My dad sometimes used a baby bjorn with me) He told my grandpa my mom had issues after I was born and that he had no choice but to take care of me . Then he told my dad he had been too loving and affectionate with me growing up and that you never do that with male children because it makes them weak. My dad asked what he was supposed to do, ignore me? He said no but when I climbed up into his lap he should have told me no and given me a smack and pushed me away. (My mom did do that to me) so my dad asked him how exactly that had made me trans. He said it started it and that his failure as a father had finished the job.

I don't usually talk back to my grandpa but him saying that about my dad really pissed me off. I told him my dad was an excellent father and that he has always helped me with anything I needed. He said that's the reason I'm "this way". My dad told him nothing he could have done would have stopped me from transitioning.  My grandpa told him that was bull ##. He said whenever my dad caught me doing something weird he should have told me it was wrong and given me a good spanking with a belt so I remembered it. My dad said that would only have made me hate him and be afraid of him. My grandpa said kids are supposed to be afraid of their father. Tyler told him that was ignorant. So then my grandpa told him off. He told Tyler he was a sorry excuse of an older brother and that older brothers were supposed to help their younger brothers/sisters . I told him Tyler had always done that. He said no he hadn't.  He said he should also have told me feminine behavior was wrong and that he should have been a little rough if he had too to help me understand it was wrong, (I guess by that he meant Tyler should have slapped me around)  and that he also had been to loving and affectionate with me and brothers aren't supposed to act that way. I told him he was being stupid now. He said my father and brother had both failed me and that's why I am like this.

I wish I hadn't now but I asked my grandpa if I was really so awful. He said that no matter how many surgeries I had or hormones I took I would never be a real girl and that I would always just be pretending to be something I never will be. He said it was sad that my dad and brother had encouraged me to think a delusion could be real. Wow. There's nothing like having a family member rip you apart. Even though he was never ok with me being trans, I didn't know he felt that way about it. My dad told him to stop it and that he should leave. He said he was just being honest and that someone needed to. Then he asked my dad if now he was planning on disowning him like he had his own brother and wife. My dad told him to just leave. He said it was ###up that my dad cut family members out of his life for calling him on the fact that he let his son become a freak. As much as I totally hate that I did it, I cried over that. I know my grandpa doesn't approve of me being trans but for him to call me a freak really hurt me. I never knew he felt like I was a freak.

It seems like whenever things go smoothly and I could almost forget I'm trans or at least stop dwelling on it something has to happen to make sure I remember I'm trans and not normal. I seem to be losing family members one by one.

Oh Julia 🤦‍♀️ I'm so sorry you are going through this with your grandpa.  He sounds like he is stuck in the past and can't accept change.  Your dad and brother were so right in defending you.
Also there is no fault with how we are, and you are already and always have been a girl.
I hope your holidays smooth out. 
Hugs, Jessica 💁

I can't help you cope and I'm sorry that you have to deal with that. There is nothing here for you to be ashamed about. This is entirely in the hands of your Mom and grandpa. They are the ones with the problem, not you. I know is basic nature to take on guilt, don't do it. This is on them.

You can be proud of your brother and father being like they are when surrounded by people like this. Its a lot easier to be good when everyone around you is good, but this shows their true strength.

omg, wow, I am so sorry Julia. My jaw dropped a few times reading this because I couldn't believe what I was seein, especially the parts where he said your brother wasn't good to you, your dad and brother are amazing! You're a strong girl though, this sucks but I know you'll get through it

(not Allowed) him, he'll come round when he's seen he's Billy no mates with a family that want nothing to do with him


Mod Edit- Watch the language please

Sometimes you just need to put the old ones on an ice floe and be done with it.

OMG Julia, I am so sorry. I had a really rough time reading your post and I am in so much disbelieve about your grandpa's positions. It somehow explains why your mom is the way she is.

I know it will not be easy but try not to let this get to you. What he expressed is a completely outdated view which should have been gone decades ago. He is also ignoring any scientific knowledge of the reasons for being trans.
By his definition I would be a bad mom too. Yes, we have a baby bjorn and I usually cannot wait for my kid to come and wanting to sit on my lap. This is so precious time and I usually drop everything for a chance to have it.

Your dad is a great dad. He stands by you and your brother and took very good care of you while your mom could not or did not want to.

Again, I am so sorry for you. Keep in mind that your dad and brother love you so much and stand by you!

First off, you're NOT a freak.  You were born with a female brain, but your body was born male.  That's a birth defect, similar to being born with heart problems or a cleft pallate (sorry if I offend anyone actually born that way).  Its something that hormomes and surgery can fix nowadays, so whh not take advantage of it like you would any other fixable birth defect?  That's all you're doing, correcting a birth defect.

Second, OMG, does your grandfather's knuckles drag on the ground when he walks?  (No offense.)  He sounds like a total caveman!  Its too bad that he feels that a man showing his children love instead of fear is "a bad thing."  And for the record, its not.  You have an AMAZING Dad (and brother too!), and you are a very lucky girl.

It sounds like you have a toxic person in your grandfather.  I know it hurts, but maybe, for your sanity you should not have much contact  with him, if any. 

Sometimes, the people you love the most are the ones you have to cut out of your life, for your own sanity.  They're also often are the ones that know EXACTLY what buttons to push to get the reactions they want out of you.

I'm so sorry he's so close-minded and backwards-thinking.  Its no longer the 1800s, something he doesn't seem to understand. 

*hug*

Ryuichi

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Julia, Gramps needs to be educated. Print this off for him and have him read it. If you have to. Read it to him.
https://www.susans.org/wiki/Transsexualism_-_Information_for_the_family
You are far better off with your relationship with your father as my father did not have much time to spend with me. There is nothing wrong with a loving father. It'S the part I played in my children's life. I changed diapers, put on cod liver oil, bandaged boo boos, and gasp. I kissed and hugged them and told them how proud I was of them. I played with them and gasp again. I never had to discipline them physically. Sitting in the corner would find them occupied playing with a piece of fuzz. My kids have no indication of my transgender tendencies, because they were not influenced in utero by forced hormone treatment.  Julia, it is tough to set people aside but frankly, you have your life to live. Not your Grandpa's. He has lived his life, in the manner he thought was right for him. This is your time.

I think many here know how great your brother and father are.
I'm sorry your grandpa feels that way about things, he seems to come from the same school as my mum "suck it up and be miserable" so they can be happy and not open their minds.
I'd be making every effort to minimise contact with him.

Hugs. X

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Any thinking, feeling person knows he's wrong. Your awesome father and brother know he's wrong. What's more, you know he's wrong.

He's not worth the air he breathes. It's time to let him go.

I am so sorry Julia.  You are a woman.  That you require surgery to cure your dysphoria is not your fault.  The alienation of family members who do not accept your true self is also not your fault.

Some older people are not to blame for their ignorance.  It is usually too late for them to be re-educated, though, when the re-education is about deeply held beliefs. 

Your father still has you and Tyler, and you still have them.

I knew my grandpa was backwards about some things, especially LGBT stuff but I don't understand how he can have such outdated ideas. He's not that old but I don't believe age is the reason. I know people a lot older than him who are open minded and willing to learn about things they may not understand. He is just a mean, prejudiced, ignorant person. All the men on my dads side of the family are military.  But I don't think that's a reason either. My dads friends are military or former military and except for one they have all treated me well.  Whatever the reason is for his messed up thinking it really makes me sad that my poor dad grew up with a father like that. I'm glad my dad rejected that kind of attitude and ignorant ideas. But my uncle is just like my grandpa.  I pity any kids he has. Especially male kids.

Sorry to say it but he's an ignorant ass**le. You guys were actually patient and almost nice to him compared to what he was saying. I would have been yelling and reminding him of all the things he did wrong so he stopped judging others.

At the end of the day some people choose to feel the way they do about us because it's just easier for them to. If they didn't they'd have to do some thinking and empathizing. For some people that's pretty hard work.

Julia, I had to wait to respond to this since I was getting emotional all day thinking about it.  We have similar issues with your grandpa and my dad.  I don't think it's the military or even education, it's just them.  They have preconceived ideas about the world and when something doesn't fit their narrative they lash out even at family members.  Your grandpa will probably never be supportive, neither will my dad.  My mom even told me to not go too far with my dad as he's not ready.  I think he may lash out like your grandpa has.  The worst part of doing so is that talk feeds the types of shame, insecurities, basically all the reason we were repressing, closeted and miserable.  Thinking that's how some people want us makes me cry indeed.  I feel for you, Julia.

Bari Jo

Oh Julia. 

I wish I didn't have to say this, but someone in that mess is a narcissist. One of the methods of abuse is abuse by proxy - you grandpa has been used as the willing vehicle - chosen because his views are close to that of the actual perpetrator...

This is a direct consequence of the ongoing non-contact, with your mum, I suspect.

Place your trust in your dad and your brother - they're doing all they can to support and nurture you

Rowan

Quote from: Bari Jo on December 06, 2017, 07:45:21 PM
Julia, I had to wait to respond to this since I was getting emotional all day thinking about it.  We have similar issues with your grandpa and my dad.  I don't think it's the military or even education, it's just them.  They have preconceived ideas about the world and when something doesn't fit their narrative they lash out even at family members.  Your grandpa will probably never be supportive, neither will my dad.  My mom even told me to not go too far with my dad as he's not ready.  I think he may lash out like your grandpa has.  The worst part of doing so is that talk feeds the types of shame, insecurities, basically all the reason we were repressing, closeted and miserable.  Thinking that's how some people want us makes me cry indeed.  I feel for you, Julia.

Bari Jo

What made this so bad for me was the fact I didn't see it coming. I know my grandpa and I should have expected this would happen. I knew my grandpa wasn't very happy with me being trans but he seemed to be a little accepting. He never misgendered me or used my boy name. I wasn't prepared for the things he said to me and my dad and Tyler.  It bothered me more that he blamed my dad and even Tyler for me being trans than the stuff he said to me. I don't even know how someone could be so totally ignorant!  Honestly the thought of cutting him out of my life doesn't upset me. I do feel bad because of my dad though. First his brother and now his dad. Though they are ignorant small minded people they are still his family.

Sno, you are absolutely right. My mom had called him and that's what motivated him to act like that. It's really sad that things have ended up like this. But I'm not going to stress out over it. My dad and brother have always been the most important people in my life and I have them so despite what's happened with my mom, uncle and grandpa,  I'm still very lucky.

   Julia I am sorry for the unfeeling and ignorant opinions of your grandpa. He is wrong. He is a product of his unenlightened generation. Unfortunately I think he could be of my generation. That attitude was the norm when he and I were growing up. It was a different era and that was the way it was. I'm not saying it is right for the times now but it was good enough for his time and he cannot accept that time and things change from what was good enough for him. It is really sad that most people of my generation could not accept these changes for the better but they cannot. In a way I think I suffer from that same attitude he has, but towards myself. I think it is one of the reasons I don't like who I am. Why I cannot accept who I am.

  I doubt this has helped you but I felt I needed to tell you I'm sorry for his behavior but I think I understand why he cannot help  being that way.